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Is there a law that requires families to be separated at the border?

There is 7 some billion people on this planet in which the majority are facing some sort of persecution and for certain, poverty. It is simply just not a good excuse to just invade wherever you want.

As for separating children. If it’s abuse to separate them, it’s abuse regardless of the excuse or reason. Yes it can be traumatic. A traumatic event for a child does not equal abuse.
 
CLAX1911 said:
well that's incorrect the law actually does. But I don't care about your stupid appeals to emotion they aren't logical arguments.

appeals to emotion are not logical arguments.
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Lawyers use emotion to win arguments all the time. One can be logical and appeal to the emotion, one does not necessarily cancel out the other,
Justice is often based on emotion and logic, because injustices triggers emotional responses, and this idea that you seem to thinking emotion has no component of a valid argument, that it must be reduced to some kind of Spockian clinical language is rather silly.
claiming that people suffer from xenophobia is an appeal to emotion and not a logical argument.
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I'm claiming that, given the past conduct of the Trump administration, a pattern of xenophobia is a fair characterization.
Per the above, your assertion is silly.
The labor shortage is due to lazy people the 325 million people in this country that's more than we've ever had.
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Do you even engage your brain before you hit the submit button? You just told me "emotion is not logical" ( which is illogical, but, going by what you said) and now you are asserting that a labor shortage is due to "lazy people", which is appeal to emotion.
calling people xenophobic is not a logical argument.
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More silliness.
and yet they don't want to do it damn thing about the hemorrhage that is our borders.

So insane people crying to stop the insanity is profoundly hypocritical.

see this is insanity. Our immigration policy should be for the good of the United States and it's people not some greater purpose.

what you're saying is banal and idiotic. If people want to immigrate legally I don't have a problem with that.

You don't seem to understand the problem is only with people sneaking it and then them lying about seeking Asylum.
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Amazing, you assail my comments for appealing to emotion, that appealing to emotion is 'not logical, and then you do what?

appeal to emotion.


Brilliant.


There is nothing more insufferable than someone who attempts sounding intelligent, but whose comments betray such attempts.
 
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Aberration said:
There is 7 some billion people on this planet in which the majority are facing some sort of persecution and for certain, poverty. It is simply just not a good excuse to just invade wherever you want.
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Strawman
As for separating children. If it’s abuse to separate them, it’s abuse regardless of the excuse or reason. Yes it can be traumatic. A traumatic event for a child does not equal abuse.
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If is, indeed, if it's wholly unnecessary, particularly when all the first ladies (at least the previous ones) & past presidents, congresspersons and senators on both the right and left, pundits on the left and right, pressured Trump to end this wholly unecessary policy, which he did.
 
OscarLevant said:
Lawyers use emotion to win arguments all the time.
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because they effectively appeal to emotion. That isn't going to work on me. This is a discussion or a debate I am emotionally detached.

One can be logical and appeal to the emotion, one does not necessarily cancel out the other,
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in some cases yes but not in this one and not with me like I said for the sake of argument I am emotionally detached.
Justice is often based on emotion and logic, because injustices triggers emotional responses, and this idea that you seem to thinking emotion has no component of a valid argument, that it must be reduced to some kind of Spockian clinical language is rather silly.
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that's a failing of Justice because if you can appeal to emotion nobody cares about truth. You can manufacture outrage.

Emotions are irrational and unpredictable in many cases and to pollute Justice with that is a miscarriage of Justice. It needs to be cold and calculating to be applied fairly.

And I'm sorry I'm not going to see it as a fault that I can detach myself emotionally from an argument it's a strength because your appeals two emotion Have not persuaded me. I'm not saying it's a bad tactic I'm just saying it won't work with me.

I'm claiming that, given the past conduct of the Trump administration, a pattern of xenophobia is a fair characterization.
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that is simply an opinion that you have no support for that you have been propagandized into holding because you fall prey to the tactics of emotional pleading.
Per the above, your assertion is silly.
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according to a brainwashed drone? I have no idea how I will ever recover from your sharp words lol.

[QUOTEPDo you even engage your brain before you hit the submit button? You just told me "emotion is not logical" ( which is illogical, but, going by what you said) and now you are asserting that a labor shortage is due to "lazy people", and appeal to emotion.[/QUOTE] yes I do I just don't engage emotion. The factors the population is greater now than it ever has been so the labor shortage is probably due to more than just lazy people, it's likely due to Farmers not wanting to pay people the money they want to do that job. It might be due to people not living near the farm.

Whatever it is the shortage of Labor is not because we have a shortage of people we have more now than we ever have.

More silliness.
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yes I agree calling people names and trying to color their opinions as xenophobic is silly. I don't engage in that kind of silliness. My argument stands on merit.



Amazing, you assail my comments for appealing to emotion, that appealing to emotion is 'not logical, and then you do what?

appeal to emotion.


Brilliant.
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That is not an appeal to emotion it is an exact statement of what is happening. See when people illegally cross the border deliberately avoid authorities they even pay people to sneak them in.

Just because it word in elicits an emotional response doesn't mean it's an appeal to emotion.

Sneaking in is exactly what they're doing.
 
CLAX1911 said:
That is not an appeal to emotion it is an exact statement of what is happening. See when people illegally cross the border deliberately avoid authorities they even pay people to sneak them in.

Just because it word in elicits an emotional response doesn't mean it's an appeal to emotion.

Sneaking in is exactly what they're doing.
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So, if I call you a banal idiot, what am I appealing to? The fish in the ocean? Give me a break.

But, of course, it didn't occur to you that I could make the exact same argument for myself.

No, you are accusing me for exactly what you are doing. Sorry, not buying your backpedaling and rationalizing.

Loaded words always appeal to the emotion.

Practice what you preach.

"Physician, heal thyself".
 
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OscarLevant said:
But, of course, it didn't occur to you that I could make the exact same argument for myself.
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Go ahead, that would be a good argument. Rather that crying about compassion.

No, you are accusing me for exactly what you are doing. Sorry, not buying your backpedaling.
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No I'm not you are being dishonest.

Loaded words always appeal to the emotion.
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What loaded words?

Practice what you preach.

"Physician, heal thyself".
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Heal myself of what ailment?
 
justabubba said:
if one is fleeing poverty, is that adequate justification for breaking our nation's immigration laws?
to me, it is not
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That's not the point I made. My point was that it is cruel and inhumane people who view such people, merely for their acts of providing safety and health for their children, as criminals.
such immigration suppresses the labor wage for US citizens without alternative work skills. and we have many of those under-skilled US citizens. but they - as citizens - can access the social safety net and live an equivalent existence NOT having to work fields for less than a living wage
we are faced with a few alternatives: (1) open our borders to more immigrants willing to work for a low wage; (2) shred our social safety net to force the poor to work for inadequate wages because there is no longer a safety net for them; or (3) pay higher prices for food (and other low skill services) to offset the wage increase needed to motivate US citizens to tend and harvest crops
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This idea that Americans are going to apply for work in the fields, to any degree necessary to end the labor shortage, is the ultimate fantasy. It's not going to happen. Some legal immigrants might, and do, but it's not enough. That fact totally undermines your argument.
Wages rise on California farms. Americans still don’t want the job - Los Angeles Times
in '96, when reagan conferred amnesty upon millions of the undocumented, he then insisted the problem with the porous borders would be fixed so that the immigration problem did not continue. this is a long standing issue that the government seems unwilling or unable to solve
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Ending crime is impossible. But, what can be done is put a big of a dent in it as much as possible. Illegal immigration is similar in this regard, but when the dent is too big, farmers suffer.
no, they don't. if they did, this problem would have been solved early in Obama's administration, when democrats owned the white house, senate, and house of representatives, as the republicans do today
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Obama only had a filibuster-proof Senate for only 72 days, and the 2700 page bill called the Affordable Care Act, sucked up all the oxygen and it was passed in that short window. I find it amusing that repubs have magically expanded 72 days into 2 years, and blame dems for not getting more done, well, during that 72 days, we passed a comprehensive bill, and after it, repubs went back to filibustering everything in site that dems put forth.
 
CLAX1911 said:
Go ahead, that would be a good argument. Rather that crying about compassion.

No I'm not you are being dishonest
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No, I suppose it's too much to ask for you to look in the mirror.
.
What loaded words?
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Really? You don't know? Amazing.
Heal myself of what ailment?
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It's a metaphor. Please tell me you are not that.....



oh, nevermind.
 
Aberration said:
There is 7 some billion people on this planet in which the majority are facing some sort of persecution and for certain, poverty. It is simply just not a good excuse to just invade wherever you want.

As for separating children. If it’s abuse to separate them, it’s abuse regardless of the excuse or reason. Yes it can be traumatic. A traumatic event for a child does not equal abuse.
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It seems the parents should consider that before putting them and their children in that position.
 
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