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What do you think about some constitutional rights for illegals?

Moon said:
If they are physically in the US, then yes, they are afforded constitutional rights.
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I believe it is some constitutional rights, but not all.
 
independentusa said:
Yes, illegal aliens have constitutional rights | TheHill
According to this article they have some, but not all constitutional rights. Others I have read say that the laws concerning illegals and immigration override other rights. What do you think, should they have any constitutional rights?
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Given that the rights enshrined in the Constitution are typically thought to be inalienable and belonging to all human beings, then yes, they should have constitutional rights. However, not because they are given by the Constitution, but because we are a humane people who would treat everyone with respect.
 
ashurbanipal said:
Given that the rights enshrined in the Constitution are typically thought to be inalienable and belonging to all human beings, then yes, they should have constitutional rights. However, not because they are given by the Constitution, but because we are a humane people who would treat everyone with respect.
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You are correct in some cases, incorrect in others.

The inalienable rights, while reiterated in the Constitution are natural rights and run independent of the Constitution. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Others, voting and running for office, keeping and bearing arms, not so much.
 
jimbo said:
You are correct in some cases, incorrect in others.

The inalienable rights, while reiterated in the Constitution are natural rights and run independent of the Constitution. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Others, voting and running for office, keeping and bearing arms, not so much.
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OK, sure...though I disagree about keeping and bearing arms. I was talking mainly about freedom of speech, religion, assembly, and freedom from anything that would amount to unjust dealing or treatment. As to the latter, the Constitution makes some significant attempts to codify, but unfortunately has not been sufficiently updated.
 
ashurbanipal said:
OK, sure...though I disagree about keeping and bearing arms. I was talking mainly about freedom of speech, religion, assembly, and freedom from anything that would amount to unjust dealing or treatment. As to the latter, the Constitution makes some significant attempts to codify, but unfortunately has not been sufficiently updated.
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With regard to the rights you mentioned, while we here tend to accept those as inalienable, other nations do not.

The question, though, if you do not have the right to be here, and you violated our laws to do so, do you then have any rights under our Constitution?
 
jimbo said:
You are correct in some cases, incorrect in others.

The inalienable rights, while reiterated in the Constitution are natural rights and run independent of the Constitution. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Others, voting and running for office, keeping and bearing arms, not so much.
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The 2nd isn't reserved just for citizens or legal residents, but losing that right could happen due to their legal status depending on state and local laws, and due process.
 
jimbo said:
With regard to the rights you mentioned, while we here tend to accept those as inalienable, other nations do not.

The question, though, if you do not have the right to be here, and you violated our laws to do so, do you then have any rights under our Constitution?
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Yes you do....according to scotus YMMV
 
independentusa said:
Yes, illegal aliens have constitutional rights | TheHill
According to this article they have some, but not all constitutional rights. Others I have read say that the laws concerning illegals and immigration override other rights. What do you think, should they have any constitutional rights?
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They have all the rights afforded for those who seek entry to the US and as “persons” so named under the Constitution, which includes due process. Your statement “…illegals and immigration override other rights” are words without any merit whatsoever unless you care enough to provide evidence of such as much as you cared to post that statement.
 
jimbo said:
With regard to the rights you mentioned, while we here tend to accept those as inalienable, other nations do not.
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As a description of reality, this is of course correct. However, again, another part of reality is that people actually have rights, whether or not some political entity recognizes those. Those rights are bestowed by God (to "dumb down" my view), and we who are civilized ought to recognize that such is the case. To paraphrase Nietzsche, beware when fighting monsters, because there is a danger that you yourself may become a monster.

jimbo said:
The question, though, if you do not have the right to be here, and you violated our laws to do so, do you then have any rights under our Constitution?
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Yes, that is the question, and I have argued it should be answered in the affirmative. We can probably never stop utterly people coming into our country illegally. One thing we could do that would significantly reduce the flow from Mexico is doing away with NAFTA--if you know what happened with the Maquiladoras after NAFTA got started, you'll realize that in many cases the people coming across are doing just what most people would do in the same circumstances. As much as I am not a Trump supporter, I really had hoped he'd get us out of NAFTA. It's not good for us. It's not good for Mexico (except for a few wealthy Mexican citizens).

However all of that is hashed out and however one views those issues, I think it should be clear that if we treat people in an unnecessarily inhumane manner, we degrade ourselves. We can find and catch people who are here illegally while still recognizing the rights I've mentioned--at least generally speaking.
 
ashurbanipal said:
As a description of reality, this is of course correct. However, again, another part of reality is that people actually have rights, whether or not some political entity recognizes those. I disagree To paraphrase Nietzsche, beware when fighting monsters, because there is a danger that you yourself may become a monster.



Yes, that is the question, and I have argued it should be answered in the affirmative. We can probably never stop utterly people coming into our country illegally. One thing we could do that would significantly reduce the flow from Mexico is doing away with NAFTA--if you know what happened with the Maquiladoras after NAFTA got started, you'll realize that in many cases the people coming across are doing just what most people would do in the same circumstances. As much as I am not a Trump supporter, I really had hoped he'd get us out of NAFTA. It's not good for us. It's not good for Mexico (except for a few wealthy Mexican citizens).

However all of that is hashed out and however one views those issues, I think it should be clear that if we treat people in an unnecessarily inhumane manner, we degrade ourselves. We can find and catch people who are here illegally while still recognizing the rights I've mentioned--at least generally speaking.
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I disagree with the bolded. The Declaration did now say that. Nor is it necessarily true.

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”

There is an equal chance the rights were bestowed by the flying spaghetti monster. Or Allah. Or Buddha. Doesn't matter.
 
independentusa said:
http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-bl...yes-illegal-aliens-have-constitutional-rights
According to this article they have some, but not all constitutional rights. Others I have read say that the laws concerning illegals and immigration override other rights. What do you think, should they have any constitutional rights?
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seems pretty clear, to me. are you on the right wing?

No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
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If we decide that everyone who touches these shores has Constitutional rights, then what's the difference between a US citizen and an illegal immigrant? They have a right to decent treatment and to not being locked up indefinitely. That's about it.
 
veritas1 said:
If we decide that everyone who touches these shores has Constitutional rights, then what's the difference between a US citizen and an illegal immigrant? They have a right to decent treatment and to not being locked up indefinitely. That's about it.
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the right wing simply love to waste money instead of make money; but claim to subscribe to Capitalism.
 
danielpalos said:
public policy. they prefer to cut social services for the poor, instead of tax the rich for their socialism on a national basis.
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Yeah, its the right who preaches socialism :roll:

Meanwhile you ignore Hillary Clinton saying this:
 
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