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'Fools Build Walls,' Says China — Home Of The Longest Wall In The World!

No, the National Socialists were a Left winged bunch of socialists who killed millions regardless of their politics, as most socialists do. Socialists have been calling them right winged ever since, just as socialists like to call Trump voters Nazis. They like to reverse the facts around and have got a lot of mileage through the decades with this Fake News. Once Jews realize Nazis were left winged, they’ll start voting for the GOP again.

As usual, your argument is utterly false. I get that you don't live in the real world but repeating the same old fairy tale bull**** right wingers always try to dance away from the sins of their ideology simply doesn't work.

Trump, even after a ****ing terrorist attack, tried to pretend that there were "good people on both sides". Trump attacked POWs and the family of a war hero. Trump routinely attacks law enforcement.

None of that looks good buddy.

What a titanic load of ****. "The Jews" having suffered through many years of oppression at the hands of the Nazis, know a lot more about the Nazis than you do, clearly. Frankly, given how far off the deep end the GOP has gone, it might wind up the party of "white nationalists" and just about nobody else.
 
Placard waving, clichés, Fake News, boring.

Fawning over despicable tyrants, believing in fairy tales, as is usual with the right wing trying to dismiss news you don't like as "fake", generally putting out a rather badly wrong argument.....as usual
 
Translation: Walls are vital and good, unless Trump builds one.

This sentiment is what I was referring to as the dumbest thing I’ve read.

Is your position that all walls are always good, for any reason?
 
Walls worked - kind of / sort of - because they were manned by people who could rain arrows, boiling oil and other things down on the people trying to scale them. Undefended a wall is useless.

No one is saying build a wall and forget it. As far as I know every person who advocates for a wall is also saying hire more border guards.
 
As usual, your argument is utterly false.

It’s a simple and easily verifiable fact.

Trump, even after a ****ing terrorist attack, tried to pretend that there were "good people on both sides".

That’s Fake News. There were more than two groups. Conservatives came with a permit. The Left came without a permit, as did other extreme groups. Trump explained that and the press misquoted him, as you did above, to create a nothingburger. The whole transcript can be seen here. Scroll down to see a small portion of the press conference – the part in question is in bold. Look at the entire conference, and if you see anything that he said that was wrong, point out which part you have a problem with.

Q Mr. President, are you putting what you’re calling the alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?

THE PRESIDENT: I’m not putting anybody on a moral plane. What I’m saying is this: You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs — and it was vicious and it was horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch. But there is another side. There was a group on this side. You can call them the left — you just called them the left — that came violently attacking the other group. So you can say what you want, but that’s the way it is.

Q (Inaudible) both sides, sir. You said there was hatred, there was violence on both sides. Are the —

THE PRESIDENT: Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both sides — I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say.

Q The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest —

THE PRESIDENT: Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves — and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group.

Q (Inaudible.)

THE PRESIDENT: Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did.You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.

Q George Washington and Robert E. Lee are not the same.

THE PRESIDENT: George Washington was a slave owner. Was George Washington a slave owner? So will George Washington now lose his status? Are we going to take down — Excuse me, are we going to take down statues to George Washington? How about Thomas Jefferson? What do you think of Thomas Jefferson? You like him?

Q I do love Thomas Jefferson.

THE PRESIDENT: Okay, good. Are we going to take down the statue? Because he was a major slave owner. Now, are we going to take down his statue?
So you know what, it’s fine. You’re changing history. You’re changing culture. And you had people — and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists — because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. Okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly. Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people. But you also had troublemakers, and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets, and with the baseball bats. You had a lot of bad people in the other group.​


Trump attacked POWs

Fake News.

and the family of a war hero.

Fake News.

Trump routinely attacks law enforcement.

Fake News.

None of that looks good buddy.

Fake News never looks good buddy.

The Jews" having suffered through many years of oppression at the hands of the Nazis, know a lot more about the Nazis than you do, clearly.

Suffering a scourge like National Socialism doesn’t make people experts on political propaganda and Fake News, just as suffering cancer doesn’t make you an expert on cancer. Why do you think so many people go to faith healers or witchdoctors to cure it?

Frankly, given how far off the deep end the GOP has gone, it might wind up the party of "white nationalists" and just about nobody else.

White nationalists, a minority, include Democrats, libertarians, commies, republicans, non-voters, gun nuts, hillbillies, rednecks, and so on. You cannot define this minority as “conservative” or Republican. That is Fake News.
 
This sentiment is what I was referring to as the dumbest thing I’ve read.

Is your position that all walls are always good, for any reason?

The walls put up by communists and socialists to house political prisoners aren't much good. They would include all the walls of National Socialist Hitler's extermination camps, the Chinese Communist Party prisons for its millions of slaves, The North Korean Communist Party's prisons, and other communist walls around the world. Walls put up to protect terrorists are not good, nor those used to hide drug cartels and other criminals. Unsafe or badly built walls are not good. What do you have against the rest?
 
The irony here is that the Chinese know their wall didn't work, but Trumpanzees ignore that fact.

What the hell is a trumpanzee? Is that the opposite of a Trump hater?

Psst. I live in San Diego, where a 14 mile fence does keep those who are intent on breaking US immigration law, for the most part, out.
In 1986, prior to the fence, we had the highest amount of illegals crossing in a year; 628,000
Now we are down to a trickle...

In fiscal year 2016, Border Patrol agents apprehended 31,891 people in the San Diego sector suspected of crossing the U.S.-Mexico border illegally.

If a fence works, why wouldn't a wall? Tell me what I am ignoring.

Source for the above: With only one left, iconic yellow road sign showing running immigrants now borders on the extinct
 
No one is saying build a wall and forget it. As far as I know every person who advocates for a wall is also saying hire more border guards.

How many thousands of border patrol agents is that going to take. How much additional infrastructure will be needed to support them and how much is that gonna cost?
 
It’s a simple and easily verifiable fact.



That’s Fake News. There were more than two groups. Conservatives came with a permit. The Left came without a permit, as did other extreme groups. Trump explained that and the press misquoted him, as you did above, to create a nothingburger. The whole transcript can be seen here. Scroll down to see a small portion of the press conference – the part in question is in bold. Look at the entire conference, and if you see anything that he said that was wrong, point out which part you have a problem with.

Q Mr. President, are you putting what you’re calling the alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?

THE PRESIDENT: I’m not putting anybody on a moral plane. What I’m saying is this: You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs — and it was vicious and it was horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch. But there is another side. There was a group on this side. You can call them the left — you just called them the left — that came violently attacking the other group. So you can say what you want, but that’s the way it is.

Q (Inaudible) both sides, sir. You said there was hatred, there was violence on both sides. Are the —

THE PRESIDENT: Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both sides — I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say.

Q The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest —

THE PRESIDENT: Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves — and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group.

Q (Inaudible.)

THE PRESIDENT: Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did.You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.

Q George Washington and Robert E. Lee are not the same.

THE PRESIDENT: George Washington was a slave owner. Was George Washington a slave owner? So will George Washington now lose his status? Are we going to take down — Excuse me, are we going to take down statues to George Washington? How about Thomas Jefferson? What do you think of Thomas Jefferson? You like him?

Q I do love Thomas Jefferson.

THE PRESIDENT: Okay, good. Are we going to take down the statue? Because he was a major slave owner. Now, are we going to take down his statue?
So you know what, it’s fine. You’re changing history. You’re changing culture. And you had people — and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists — because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. Okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly. Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people. But you also had troublemakers, and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets, and with the baseball bats. You had a lot of bad people in the other group.​




Fake News.



Fake News.



Fake News.



Fake News never looks good buddy.



Suffering a scourge like National Socialism doesn’t make people experts on political propaganda and Fake News, just as suffering cancer doesn’t make you an expert on cancer. Why do you think so many people go to faith healers or witchdoctors to cure it?

RobLarrikan said:
Yes, the habit of conservatives to shriek "fake" whenever they hear news they don't like does look particularly bad.

Oh, you mean the white supremacists. The people whose ideology calls for the murder of innocent people on the basis of race and religion, the domestic enemies of the constitution, the people who commit treason en masse and create terrorist groups to prevent Americans from exercising their constitutional rights, and who launched a terrorist attack at their own event when confronted by opposition.

Those conservatives.

I get that you and other anti Americans don't think it's a big deal that the president would try and excuse the actions of Neo-Nazis, but most people were, and with good reason.

He literally said that there were very fine Nazis. Case in ****ing point.

Nope, not "fake" in the slightest.

Nope, not "fake" in the slightest.

They certainly know more about the Nazis then whatever conservative partisan hack you read does.

Nope, white nationalists are overwhelmingly far right.
 
What a load of crap. Terrorist geoups have been "migrating" for decades, so your argument that Israel would have been "overrun" still doesn't hold water.
My argument is Israel dropped its illegal immigration into its country from over 16,000 down to just 60 by building a wall.

Saying walls don't work is like saying cars arnt an efficient means of travel.
 
How many thousands of border patrol agents is that going to take. How much additional infrastructure will be needed to support them and how much is that gonna cost?

Right now we have 20,000 border agents and about 7,458 miles of US/Mexican and US/Canadian border.So that is about 2.6 border patrol agents per mile assuming that all those border patrol agents are actually boots on the ground and not clerical or office workers. Logically that is not enough right to sufficiently secure our borders. We can hire more border patrol agents. We can move some military posts close to the border and rotate troops to actually help prevent illegal crossing(not the bull**** that Bush, Trump,Obama did of sending the national guard to the border with no authority to detain or arrest or stop illegal crossers) A wall with a heavier personnel presence at the border will greatly reduce illegal entry. I am not sure how many personnel we actually need or the infrastructure needed for them. That is not an issue.
 
The Chinese wall did work quite well for centuries. If Trumps wall were to work for centuries it would have served its purpose.
 
The irony here is that the Chinese know their wall didn't work, but Trumpanzees ignore that fact.

and we are listening to China because they do not defend their borders?
 
Walls worked - kind of / sort of - because they were manned by people who could rain arrows, boiling oil and other things down on the people trying to scale them. Undefended a wall is useless.

Millions of people and businesses have walls. Defense of them isn’t restricted to arrows or boiling oil. Here’s a list of things that make walls “defended”:

a) Security patrols

b) Police patrols

c) Cameras

d) Dogs

e) Sensor lights

f) Neighbors and cell phones

Then there are the owners themselves, inside the premises, with their cell phones, weapons, and so on. There is the wall itself and gravity. The physical wall makes it hard for people, dogs, cats and other animals to walk in. Gravity makes it dangerous to climb, if the wall is high. Ask Obama, he put up a tall one around his house.


 
My argument is Israel dropped its illegal immigration into its country from over 16,000 down to just 60 by building a wall.

Saying walls don't work is like saying cars arnt an efficient means of travel.

Yet Israel still has continual and serious problems with terrorism, which is far more detrimental to any country than "illegal immigration".

Your argument is the equivalent of arguing that a crime fighting method which somewhat lowers robbery is good.....even though it doesn't hamper any other crime, including murder.
 
They are busily repairing their wall as we speak, and have been for years.

Of course they do a crappy job of it, being communists.

That Chinese wall you are referring to, is one of the 7 wonders of the world!

Yes, everyone "Wondered" what idiot built that! LOL!
 
That Chinese wall you are referring to, is one of the 7 wonders of the world!

Sadly it didn't make the list. You must be talking about the New7Wonders of the world - the United Nations updated version. The Seven Wonders of the world can be seen here.

Yes, everyone "Wondered" what idiot built that! LOL!

Most thought it was great.
 
Right now we have 20,000 border agents and about 7,458 miles of US/Mexican and US/Canadian border.So that is about 2.6 border patrol agents per mile assuming that all those border patrol agents are actually boots on the ground and not clerical or office workers. Logically that is not enough right to sufficiently secure our borders. We can hire more border patrol agents. We can move some military posts close to the border and rotate troops to actually help prevent illegal crossing(not the bull**** that Bush, Trump,Obama did of sending the national guard to the border with no authority to detain or arrest or stop illegal crossers) A wall with a heavier personnel presence at the border will greatly reduce illegal entry. I am not sure how many personnel we actually need or the infrastructure needed for them. That is not an issue.

When you factor in 24x7 coverage, vacations and sick days it’s probably more 0.5 agents per mile.

Of course it’s an issue. Money is always an issue. How many illegals does all that money stop? What’s the cost per illegal to stop them versus the cost to let them come in. It matters.
 
Millions of people and businesses have walls. Defense of them isn’t restricted to arrows or boiling oil. Here’s a list of things that make walls “defended”:

a) Security patrols

b) Police patrols

c) Cameras

d) Dogs

e) Sensor lights

f) Neighbors and cell phones

Then there are the owners themselves, inside the premises, with their cell phones, weapons, and so on. There is the wall itself and gravity. The physical wall makes it hard for people, dogs, cats and other animals to walk in. Gravity makes it dangerous to climb, if the wall is high. Ask Obama, he put up a tall one around his house.



Walls around houses are meant to be either load bearing or meant to keep weather out. Walls do not keep intruders out. I don’t know where you live but here most exterior walls are simply plywood covered by some type of shingle. You could get through one in a couple of minutes. But then why bother when someone who knows what they’re doing can probably open your front door in about 15 seconds. Homes are not secure. Walls and locks basically keep out people who really didn’t want to break in in the first place.

Yes we can all those things you talk. What’s it gonna cost and what economic harm do we avoid by spending all that money?
 
Walls around houses are meant to be either load bearing or meant to keep weather out.

Or both, and both keep people out too. I was talking about walls (fences) around the house, like Obama’s. Any wall though will keep people out, even non-loadbearing drywall interior walls. Why do you think we have them?

Walls do not keep intruders out.

You say, lying in your bath, surrounded by four drywall walls. Yes, they do. Did you ever bang on the bathroom wall and yell at your sister to hurry up? Why did you go to the door? Why not just stick your head through a wall since they have no deterrent function at all? Why don’t all walls have big holes in them? Maybe because kicking holes in walls is not everyone’s idea of a good time. Maybe kicking holes in walls is a noisy, messy, annoying, dangerous stupid thing to do, that soon has all the neighbors coming around or calling the cops. Every thought of that?

I don’t know where you live but here most exterior walls are simply plywood covered by some type of shingle. You could get through one in a couple of minutes.

Could being the operative word. Most people can’t be bothered. Take the walls away and many more will happily enter the property.

But then why bother when someone who knows what they’re doing can probably open your front door in about 15 seconds.

True, but most people can’t be bothered. Take a door away and many more would happily enter the house.

Homes are not secure.

They are much more secure with walls, doors, windows, fences, locks, etc., regardless of whether are not they are indestructible.

Walls and locks basically keep out people who really didn’t want to break in in the first place.

That would assume that no honest person ever became a thief, which is nonsense. Honest people are tempted. When they see valuables inside a house they are tempted to break in. If you remove doors they will be MORE tempted, and a greater number will choose to become thieves.

Yes we can all those things you talk. What’s it gonna cost and what economic harm do we avoid by spending all that money?

You can move your family under a carport if you like. You won’t have to pay for walls, doors, windows, locks and so forth. You’ll have to contend with many more thieves, rapists, murderers and criminals than the rest of us, but sure, you’ll save a few bucks.
 
When you factor in 24x7 coverage, vacations and sick days it’s probably more 0.5 agents per mile.

Of course it’s an issue. Money is always an issue. How many illegals does all that money stop? What’s the cost per illegal to stop them versus the cost to let them come in. It matters.
It doesn't matter because the second you start letting these people in you encourage more people to come in illegally.Because there is also the cost of our education system to educate their kids, the cost of the social services, stagnant wages because of excess labor, the cost of incarceration when these people commit crimes other than illegal immigration, the fact that these people send roughly 70 billion in remittances back to central America and so on. So a wall and extra border guards is chump change. You are not that concerned about costs.You just want uncontrolled immigration.
 
It doesn't matter because the second you start letting these people in you encourage more people to come in illegally.Because there is also the cost of our education system to educate their kids, the cost of the social services, stagnant wages because of excess labor, the cost of incarceration when these people commit crimes other than illegal immigration, the fact that these people send roughly 70 billion in remittances back to central America and so on. So a wall and extra border guards is chump change. You are not that concerned about costs.You just want uncontrolled immigration.

So you're a mind reader now?

If you've read even 1/10th of written here over the years you'd know that I'm a proponent of doing cost/benefit analysis as a part - a large part - of decision making so what I've written above is completely in line with what I've been writing here for years, as well as with how I make decisions in my private life.

I'm am not for unrestricted immigration, however no one has convincingly made the case that the initial and ongoing costs of a wall are actually less than the costs of we incur by not building it or by dealing with the issue in other ways. There are a myriad of factors that have to be taken into account and just putting up one set of numbers doesn't make the argument.

Specific to your numbers you do understand that a "migrant" is not an illegal immigrant but just someone from another country who is working here. About half the 3.5 million Central Americans in the US are here legally so there's no way to know what that $20 billion actually represents. It may be money that was all legally earned. At worst it's a number that blends legally earned with illegally earned money.
 
Or both, and both keep people out too. I was talking about walls (fences) around the house, like Obama’s. Any wall though will keep people out, even non-loadbearing drywall interior walls. Why do you think we have them?



You say, lying in your bath, surrounded by four drywall walls. Yes, they do. Did you ever bang on the bathroom wall and yell at your sister to hurry up? Why did you go to the door? Why not just stick your head through a wall since they have no deterrent function at all? Why don’t all walls have big holes in them? Maybe because kicking holes in walls is not everyone’s idea of a good time. Maybe kicking holes in walls is a noisy, messy, annoying, dangerous stupid thing to do, that soon has all the neighbors coming around or calling the cops. Every thought of that?



Could being the operative word. Most people can’t be bothered. Take the walls away and many more will happily enter the property.



True, but most people can’t be bothered. Take a door away and many more would happily enter the house.



They are much more secure with walls, doors, windows, fences, locks, etc., regardless of whether are not they are indestructible.



That would assume that no honest person ever became a thief, which is nonsense. Honest people are tempted. When they see valuables inside a house they are tempted to break in. If you remove doors they will be MORE tempted, and a greater number will choose to become thieves.



You can move your family under a carport if you like. You won’t have to pay for walls, doors, windows, locks and so forth. You’ll have to contend with many more thieves, rapists, murderers and criminals than the rest of us, but sure, you’ll save a few bucks.

You're making the same point I'm making. Yes if you leave your door open someone may walk in who otherwise wouldn't have. That's why you have a door. A professional thief isn't going to care. He's going to pick the lock and walk in. Your door doesn't deter him. A guy who's walked all the way from Guatemala is like that professional thief - he didn't do all that walking just to turn around because of a wall.

So again it's a cost/benefit analysis. How much does it cost to secure the border? How many illegals will it actually stop and how much money will it save?
 
Yes if you leave your door open someone may walk in who otherwise wouldn't have. That's why you have a door. A professional thief isn't going to care.

Of course a professional thief cares. Give him a choice and he will prefer no door and no lock. To just walk in and take the money is easier than having to pick the lock and open the door first. It takes a few seconds, but during that time people can see.

He's going to pick the lock and walk in.

Which takes time and is more risky that just walking in.

Your door doesn't deter him.
Give him a choice of two apartments with doorways ten feet apart. One doorway has a strong door with a strong good quality lock, and the other has no door at all. Both apartments have similar treasures within. The thief will take the no door choice every time. Also, doors aren’t meant to keep out professional thieves. They’re designed to keep out the common street rat.

A guy who's walked all the way from Guatemala is like that professional thief - he didn't do all that walking just to turn around because of a wall.

Give him a choice between entering a house with no walls and one with walls, he’ll take the no walls choice each time. Interview him:

Gaius: So, why’d you pick the house with no walls?
Thief: [shrugs] It was easier.
Gaius: Yeah, but you could have got into the other one very quickly.
Thief: Sure.
Gaius: So why didn’t you pick it?
Thief: Slower. Messier. Noisier.
Gaius: Slower by how much?
Thief: Thirty seconds.
Gaius: Messier?
Thief: Sure. Why make a lot of mess and noise when you can just walk into the wall-less one and help yourself?
Gaius: But you…
Thief: No buts man. I’m not a fool. Why waste time and make noise and mess when you don’t have to?

So again it's a cost/benefit analysis. How much does it cost to secure the border?

Nothing, since Mexico will pay for it.

How many illegals will it actually stop and how much money will it save?

Tens of millions of illegals. Don’t forget time and breeding. Money? An incalculable amount.
 
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