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Majority oppose policy that causes family separation, but Republicans approve

When this is all over, all the ICE and Border Patrol thugs need to be put on trial Nuremburg style and put in jail, and a progressive judge needs to subpoena the data from this poll and find out who the people who are that support this and fine them. I'm ****ing sick and tired of playing nice with the crypto-Nazi MAGA cult. We've got to cause these people real harm or they won't learn.
 
There is no proof that most of these kids even belong to the people they are arriving with. It's even worse than we thought, kids being shipped off to be exploited by those trying to get into the country.

Previous administrations would take kids from anyone that crossed our border illegally when they were suspected of being trafficked. This current policy is resulting in kids being taken from everyone that crosses illegally or seeks asylum, even when we know goddamn well they are with their actual parents.
 
Previous administrations would take kids from anyone that crossed our border illegally when they were suspected of being trafficked. This current policy is resulting in kids being taken from everyone that crosses illegally or seeks asylum, even when we know goddamn well they are with their actual parents.

We don't know that at all. We have no idea who these people are and any suggestion that we do is nonsense. Are some with their parents? Yes, but many are not. Instead of all this outrage at Trump, people should be directing their attention to the people responsible for the mess, the parents who either brought or sent their kids here knowing they weren't just going to be waved through. I'm just really sick of all this blather from the left who never said diddly sh*t when Obama did it.
 
We don't know that at all. We have no idea who these people are and any suggestion that we do is nonsense. Are some with their parents? Yes, but many are not. Instead of all this outrage at Trump, people should be directing their attention to the people responsible for the mess, the parents who either brought or sent their kids here knowing they weren't just going to be waved through. I'm just really sick of all this blather from the left who never said diddly sh*t when Obama did it.

Because Obama did not take 2000 kids in a month alone from their parents. Neither did Bush. They only resorted to taking kids when they were suspected of being trafficked. This has nothing to do with partisan politics, it is about what is right. Don't let me get in way of you rationalizing the shameful though.
 
In a country of 325 million people. The number of illegal immigrants in this country has actually slightly declined since 2009: 5 facts about illegal immigration in the U.S. | Pew Research Center

I am just not seeing where its some big crisis considering that the number illegal immigrants here has been flat for going on a decade. Moreover, even if the numbers of illegal immigrants were still growing, cruelty on this level can't be the answer in a decent society. Taking children from their parents is a last resort in social services for a reason. It is extremely traumatic to the children. Years ago I used to do CASA work. Even taking kids from parents that were total pieces of **** was very traumatic for them. Sometimes it had to be done, but they tried everything to keep from doing it.

We have taken 2000 kids from their parents on the border in May alone. The kids are then warehoused in converted box stores with plans for tent cities.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...1dd6a09b549_story.html?utm_term=.52037d6b168b

That just isn't right.

I agree that it is not right that the US is expected to care for anyone, from any foreign nation, that elects to move here. If these folks knocked on your door, or chose to camp in your yard, would you feel compelled offer them asylum including food and shelter?
 
Of course it meant that they held them no more than 20 days and then released them with a court date. What you guys are not getting is that they decided that the alternative, charging everyone that crosses the border with kids criminal (it is usually a misdemeanor unless you have done it more than once), arresting the parents, and thus the kids being separated from them, was simply too cruel. That is why they did not do it. It's not because they were weak, or hated America, or whatever, it is because they have a conscience and such a policy was unconscionable to them.

Look, I am all for doing a better job of securing the border. I think we ought to do a better job of cracking down on employers that hire illegal immigrants. I also think that our immigration system should be more skills based like what is typical in other high income countries, but there is a reason why only Trump could implement such a cruel policy. I would not sleep at night knowing that I put in place a policy that separating families like this. Years ago I used to do CASA volunteer work. Sometimes you would have piece of **** parents or parents that may not be able to care for their kids and their kids would be removed from the home. However, that was an absolute late resort, and it was an absolute last resort for a good reason. It is extremely traumatic to kids to be taken from their parents. It is horrible for them.

I mean god damn. I know the president is incapable of empathy, but I would imagine most of yall are capable of it. Think about what we are doing here. Yeah, the parents are coming here illegally. They are going to do that anyway. This cruel policy is not the answer.

On this we are in 100% agreement. We need immigration reform badly and a merit based system with no cap would be great for the country. Hell, if it were up to me I would limit the social safety net to the disabled and elderly and have open borders.

However, your thinking on this matter is short sighted and blinded by partisan spin. This isn't a policy Trump implemented, the courts decided that kids can not be detained longer than 20 days and with Trump actually enforcing the law and prosecuting those that cross illegally then this is the inevitable result. A simple bandaid fix Congress could do tomorrow is pass a law allowing kids to stay with their parents for as long as the process takes. As long as the law is as it currently stands you are advocating just releasing the people into the country once caught, you do realize the implications of this right? You would have people kidnapping kids just to cross the border and claim the children are theirs to get past immigration and a large influx of families trying to cross the border (which is an incredibly dangerous journey for children). It isn't like these people are never reunited with their children, as soon as their case is decided and they are to be deported they are sent back together.
 
I agree that it is not right that the US is expected to care for anyone, from any foreign nation, that elects to move here. If these folks knocked on your door, or chose to camp in your yard, would you feel compelled offer them asylum including food and shelter?

If these folks showed up at my front door needing help, you damn right I would have them come in, do what I could to help them out, and figure out what should be done next. I suspect you would as well. I got to be able to sleep at night and I can't do that if I turned folks like that away.
 
If these folks showed up at my front door needing help, you damn right I would have them come in, do what I could to help them out, and figure out what should be done next. I suspect you would as well. I got to be able to sleep at night and I can't do that if I turned folks like that away.

OK, and the next dozen too? It is one thing to do so voluntarily, occasionally and at your own discretion and quite another to do so on a full-time, at their demand, basis. I would offer them directions to a motel and/or restaurant.
 
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Because Obama did not take 2000 kids in a month alone from their parents. Neither did Bush. They only resorted to taking kids when they were suspected of being trafficked. This has nothing to do with partisan politics, it is about what is right. Don't let me get in way of you rationalizing the shameful though.

I'm not rationalizing it. The way to solve this separation issue is just to turn 100% of them away at the border. Stop wasting time with prosecutions and investigations. Turn them all away. When and if they want to come in legally, we can deal with them at that time. Anybody can show up with a kid and claim the kid is theirs and that they are seeking asylum.
 
On this we are in 100% agreement. We need immigration reform badly and a merit based system with no cap would be great for the country. Hell, if it were up to me I would limit the social safety net to the disabled and elderly and have open borders.

However, your thinking on this matter is short sighted and blinded by partisan spin. This isn't a policy Trump implemented, the courts decided that kids can not be detained longer than 20 days and with Trump actually enforcing the law and prosecuting those that cross illegally then this is the inevitable result. A simple bandaid fix Congress could do tomorrow is pass a law allowing kids to stay with their parents for as long as the process takes. As long as the law is as it currently stands you are advocating just releasing the people into the country once caught, you do realize the implications of this right? You would have people kidnapping kids just to cross the border and claim the children are theirs to get past immigration and a large influx of families trying to cross the border (which is an incredibly dangerous journey for children). It isn't like these people are never reunited with their children, as soon as their case is decided and they are to be deported they are sent back together.

Wait a minute. What Trump is doing is choosing to have a zero tolerance policy on illegal border crossing law. Previous administrations choose not to do that because of the implications. Previous administrations decided that even if they had to release families seeking asylum after 20 days and depend upon them to show up for their court date (most did show up by the way), that was not as bad as the alternative of separating kids from their parents.

We have always taken kids any time they suspected those kids were being trafficked so that is red herring. Moreover, the number of illegal immigrants in this country has actually slightly declined over the last decade. So its not the dire crisis that some portray it as.

Just the same though, conscience has to come in to play when it comes to enforcing our borders. Previous administrations believed taking thousands of kids from their parents a month was unconscionable. That is why they did not do it. If securing our borders was the only concern we had and what is right and wrong was not a factor, we could just shoot everyone that crossed our border illegally, but we don't do that because it would be an evil policy. This current policy is wrong as well.
 
On this we are in 100% agreement. We need immigration reform badly and a merit based system with no cap would be great for the country. Hell, if it were up to me I would limit the social safety net to the disabled and elderly and have open borders.

However, your thinking on this matter is short sighted and blinded by partisan spin. This isn't a policy Trump implemented, the courts decided that kids can not be detained longer than 20 days and with Trump actually enforcing the law and prosecuting those that cross illegally then this is the inevitable result. A simple bandaid fix Congress could do tomorrow is pass a law allowing kids to stay with their parents for as long as the process takes. As long as the law is as it currently stands you are advocating just releasing the people into the country once caught, you do realize the implications of this right? You would have people kidnapping kids just to cross the border and claim the children are theirs to get past immigration and a large influx of families trying to cross the border (which is an incredibly dangerous journey for children). It isn't like these people are never reunited with their children, as soon as their case is decided and they are to be deported they are sent back together.

This is right and I have no doubt this is happening already.
 
Wait a minute. What Trump is doing is choosing to have a zero tolerance policy on illegal border crossing law. Previous administrations choose not to do that because of the implications. Previous administrations decided that even if they had to release families seeking asylum after 20 days and depend upon them to show up for their court date (most did show up by the way), that was not as bad as the alternative of separating kids from their parents.

We have always taken kids any time they suspected those kids were being trafficked so that is red herring. Moreover, the number of illegal immigrants in this country has actually slightly declined over the last decade. So its not the dire crisis that some portray it as.

Just the same though, conscience has to come in to play when it comes to enforcing our borders. Previous administrations believed taking thousands of kids from their parents a month was unconscionable. That is why they did not do it. If securing our borders was the only concern we had and what is right and wrong was not a factor, we could just shoot everyone that crossed our border illegally, but we don't do that because it would be an evil policy. This current policy is wrong as well.

My bad, I misunderstood. I thought you were saying it was his policy to separate the children from their parents when in actuality it is simply a byproduct of following the law. Yes, he has a zero tolerance policy and it is something he ran on and even though I disagree with the laws themselves it is his job to execute the law so I don't really see the reasoning of saying this problem is Trump when the problem is with the law itself. Trump is doing the correct thing by enforcing the law, it is Congress' job to now fix it. I see it the same way with marijuana, He should enforce the law as it stands so that Congress will be forced to finally legalize it.

I don't think you really understand the danger with kidnapping in this regard. If someone comes across a family on the border and kidnaps a baby the likelyhood of those parents ever seeing their child again are next to zero as it would likely be sold to some couple trying to cross so they can use it as a get out of jail free card.
 
I agree that it is not right that the US is expected to care for anyone, from any foreign nation, that elects to move here. If these folks knocked on your door, or chose to camp in your yard, would you feel compelled offer them asylum including food and shelter?

You realize the US is legally required to offer asylum and house and feed them, right?

Its the law in both international treaties we signed as well as federal law.

Are people really this heartless AND this uninformed?
 
You realize the US is legally required to offer asylum and house and feed them, right?

Its the law in both international treaties we signed as well as federal law.

Are people really this heartless AND this uninformed?

Do you realize that the backlog for an asylum hearing is about two years and that those seeking asylum are granted work permits? What better way for any illegal immigrant to stay in the US for at least two years than to claim fear of 'gang crime' which appears nowhere in federal or international asylum law? While most will lose their case (if they even show up) at an asylum hearing - so what? It allows them time to get a fake ID, move to a sanctuary city/state and/or blend in with about 12 million others lacking any legal immigration status.
 
Do you realize that the backlog for an asylum hearing is about two years and that those seeking asylum are granted work permits? What better way for any illegal immigrant to stay in the US for at least two years than to claim fear of 'gang crime' which appears nowhere in federal or international asylum law? While most will lose their case (if they even show up) at an asylum hearing - so what? It allows them time to get a fake ID, move to a sanctuary city/state and/or blend in with about 12 million others lacking any legal immigration status.

So.... we ignore the law, then?

Break treaties?
 
So.... we ignore the law, then?

Break treaties?

Set limits, which is in accordance with the law, and hold (detain) applicants until their asylum hearing. If the US asylum quota is 50K/year and we are getting 5K per month then when our holding cells are full then we did our part - sorry folks the inn is full.
 
Set limits, which is in accordance with the law, and hold (detain) applicants until their asylum hearing. If the US asylum quota is 50K/year and we are getting 5K per month then when our holding cells are full then we did our part - sorry folks the inn is full.

Let me ask you a question... what do you think of people who just do the bare minimum?

Office Space Joanna Flair - YouTube
 
I don't think you really understand the danger with kidnapping in this regard. If someone comes across a family on the border and kidnaps a baby the likelyhood of those parents ever seeing their child again are next to zero as it would likely be sold to some couple trying to cross so they can use it as a get out of jail free card.

On any given year, there are around 3000 people trafficked across our Southern border. Of those, the vast majority are teenage girls or women that will be used in the sex trade. Most of them are taken across via smugglers, not people posing as families. Frankly the notion that small children could be used "as a get of out jail free card" is ludicrous. Take a 4 year old or an 8 year old from their parents, give them to strangers and then tell them they have to act like those strangers are their parents. Try to convince border control agents those little kids are those people's kids then.

These kids being separated from their parents at the border are screaming for their parents when it happens. They are inconsolable. You think they are faking that? Come on. Let's stop with the rationalizations here. This is a horrible policy.
 
On any given year, there are around 3000 people trafficked across our Southern border. Of those, the vast majority are teenage girls or women that will be used in the sex trade. Most of them are taken across via smugglers, not people posing as families. Frankly the notion that small children could be used "as a get of out jail free card" is ludicrous. Take a 4 year old or an 8 year old from their parents, give them to strangers and then tell them they have to act like those strangers are their parents. Try to convince border control agents those little kids are those people's kids then.

These kids being separated from their parents at the border are screaming for their parents when it happens. They are inconsolable. You think they are faking that? Come on. Let's stop with the rationalizations here. This is a horrible policy.

I was thinking more of the 1-3 year old range. You say the idea that using a child as a get out of jail free card is ludicrous, yet that is what parents are using their kids as now when crossing the border illegally.

Why would I believe they are faking it?

As far as being a horrible policy, as I stated before that is on Congress. Trump is doing his job and enforcing the law.

Ultimately we could fix immigration simply by implementing a 10k fine per noncitizen housed/employed then add a reward of 10% of the fine collected given to a person who provides information leading to a fine. Rather than waste money trying to round up people or a wall, take away the incentive for coming illegally and you end illegal immigration while also slightly increasing government revenue.
 
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