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Video of kids cries for parents at border -- Propublica reports

OscarLevant

OscarLevant

Gadfly Extraordinaire
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Republicans are going to pay for this.

(sound only, sorry )
 
One hopes, but one doubts.

Recent history suggests that a dangerous percentage of the GOP base is happy to throw out honor, honesty, integrity, and basic human decency so long as it means that they can tell themselves that they *got* the left. I'd bet quite a large percentage love the idea that somewhere out there a "liberal" is upset on behalf of these people. After all, that means they can throw the term "bleeding heart" at said person(s). Yet others will be happy simply because "that'll show 'em illegals not to come here". Yet others will pat themselves on the back for loving law and order.ply deport everyone together.

After all, haven't they written off the reasonable conservatives on this forum as being "RINOs" and the like?

Bottom line I fear: Whatever their particular disease, they'll find a reason to overlook the pointless, deliberate, and banal cruelty in doing this when they could sim








I don't think people realize well enough quite how ****ed things are. I'd love to be proven wrong.

The trouble is that I've said that a lot over the last few years when it comes to cynical predictions about other peoples' behavior and.......haven't been.
 
OscarLevant said:
Republicans are going to pay for this.

(sound only, sorry )
Click to expand...


The media goes all out with this propaganda for foreigners. How many years did it take them to cover the opioid epidemic?
 
We are watching the U.S. turn into a country where a Holocaust could happen.

We are watching how once-good people can become numb to abject evil and even take part in it. It is possible that in ten years we'll be facing human rights crime tribunals and hundreds or thousands of Americans will be on trial and their answer for the horrors they committed will be "we were just following orders".

Trump is calling on people to give a real time demonstration how decent people can evolve into Nazis -- and they're falling in line to do as he asks.
 
OscarLevant said:
Republicans are going to pay for this.

(sound only, sorry )
Click to expand...

What, specifically, have Republicans done recently to encourage non-citizens to cross the border illegally with their children? If anyone is to blame for this kind of thing it would seem that the primary fault would be with the individual or individuals who knowingly and willingly broke US immigration law.
 
Lutherf said:
What, specifically, have Republicans done recently to encourage non-citizens to cross the border illegally with their children? If anyone is to blame for this kind of thing it would seem that the primary fault would be with the individual or individuals who knowingly and willingly broke US immigration law.
Click to expand...

So you endorse a policy akin to torture?
 
Amelia said:
We are watching the U.S. turn into a country where a Holocaust could happen.

We are watching how once-good people can become numb to abject evil and even take part in it. It is possible that in ten years we'll be facing human rights crime tribunals and hundreds or thousands of Americans will be on trial and their answer for the horrors they committed will be "we were just following orders".

Trump is calling on people to give a real time demonstration how decent people can evolve into Nazis -- and they're falling in line to do as he asks.
Click to expand...

Every country is a country in which a Holocaust could conceivably happen, because the mental mechanisms that lead human beings into becoming killing machines willing to murder their neighbors are already in place.

I refuse to watch or listen to videos and propaganda designed to elicit a strong emotional response from me. Forgive me if I have made a mistaken assumption about the contents of the video, but the sound of a sobbing or screaming child to propagate raw emotion does nothing to enhance the debate. I have listened to people break down and cry at the thought of losing custody of their children...when they themselves were child molesters or perpetrators of domestic violence. I had no doubt that their suffering was genuine and their reactions were not feigned. But suffering alone does not make me think that the course of action should be changed.

However, I will give you this: I believe the Ninth Circuit got this decision wrong, and that children of illegal immigrants should remain with their parents in detention so that they can be deported together as a whole family and so that the children will not be left stranded.
 
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OscarLevant said:
Republicans are going to pay for this.

(sound only, sorry )
Click to expand...


Yeup, because they do not know much of the damage is already done and every day longer amplifies that damage.
 
phattonez said:
Around 2010 deaths started spiking. We didn't hear anything until about 6 years later.
Click to expand...

The fast increase started around then. It wasn't definable as a spike until it had continued and in fact spiked. But that's beside the point.

I said "[you're] comparing apples with quasars." In other words, both parties since the 90s were at fault via oversight of the FDA or lack thereof, and its resulting lack of oversight over opioid manufacturers, particularly of oxycodone.

This is far more likely to be reported about as, (1) it is a deliberate act by one party (GOP, via Trump), (2) One party keeps putting it in the news (GOP, via Trump), (3) it is generally more culpable as an act of commission rather than of omission, (4) this practice can easily ended by the party responsible, not so opioid addiction. There's a lot more.

Put as simply as possible: widespread opioid addiction is nothing like Trump deliberately having immigration enforcement pointlessly rip children away from families. There's no reason to separate them. Separating them doesn't make it any easier to deport them or anything. It's pointless evil, and he's playing it for political points with dishonest morons who will believe him if he tells them it's actually the Democrats' fault he made this change.




What is your point supposed to be anyway? "The media" didn't start talking about an "opioid crisis" once deaths started to rise more sharply in 2010 therefore ____________ ?

Therefore someone shouldn't make a youtube video of this?
 
Felis Leo said:
Every country is a country in which a Holocaust could conceivably happen, because the mental mechanisms that lead human beings into becoming killing machines willing to murder their neighbors are already in place.

I refuse to watch or listen to videos and propaganda designed to elicit a strong emotional response from me. The sound of a sobbing screaming child to propagate raw emotion does nothing to enhance the debate. I have listened to people break down and cry at the thought of losing custody of their children...when they themselves were child molesters or perpetrators of domestic violence. I had no doubt that their suffering was genuine and their reactions were not feigned. But suffering alone does not make me think that the course of action should be changed.

However, I will give you this: I believe the Ninth Circuit got this decision wrong, and that children of illegal immigrants should remain with their parents in detention so that they can be deported together as a whole family and so that the children will not be left stranded.
Click to expand...

Why does it do nothing to "enhance the debate" if the debate is quite literally about Trump deliberately causing that pain to occur when there is no logical reason. If he just wanted to deport the families, he could do that without doing this.

Maybe you'd have a point in other contexts, but in this one you are rather trying to ignore the point of the debate if you are ignoring the emotional context.







It's like entering a debate on whether flogging people to death is cruel and unnecessary, then announcing you aren't going to listen to someone screaming, then moaning, then mumbling, then finally collapsing as they are in fact flogged to death. It's the entire point.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
So you endorse a policy akin to torture?
Click to expand...

Separating children from their adult escorts in the process of an investigation which definitely includes acts which violate civil law and may well include acts which violate criminal law is both prudent and humanitarian. In no way, shape or form does the separation of children from the adults who accompany them (bear in mind, as the involved individuals are coming here illegally we have no way of knowing if the adult companions are the parents of the children) constitute anything even close to torture. On a personal note, I find your comparison of this policy to "torture" to not only be absurd but also incredibly harmful to any possibility of discussing this issue on rational grounds.
 
Felis Leo said:
Every country is a country in which a Holocaust could conceivably happen, because the mental mechanisms that lead human beings into becoming killing machines willing to murder their neighbors are already in place.

I refuse to watch or listen to videos and propaganda designed to elicit a strong emotional response from me. Forgive me if I have made a mistaken assumption about the contents of the video, but the sound of a sobbing or screaming child to propagate raw emotion does nothing to enhance the debate. I have listened to people break down and cry at the thought of losing custody of their children...when they themselves were child molesters or perpetrators of domestic violence. I had no doubt that their suffering was genuine and their reactions were not feigned. But suffering alone does not make me think that the course of action should be changed.

However, I will give you this: I believe the Ninth Circuit got this decision wrong, and that children of illegal immigrants should remain with their parents in detention so that they can be deported together as a whole family and so that the children will not be left stranded.
Click to expand...


Before Trump I made the mistake of thinking "it couldn't happen here".

Trump is actively pushing us toward that point.

It's not just "conceivable". The probability is growing.
 
Apparently, abused kids only matter if they can be used to attack Donald Trump and his evil supporters.

Well, not so fast, anti-Trump virtue signalers...
The American Civil Liberties Union's Border Litigation Project says it has obtained 30,000 pages of records documenting abuse and neglect of unaccompanied immigrant children by U.S. Customs and Border Protection, and a "culture of impunity" within CBP and the Department of Homeland Security to allow such alleged behavior to continue.

The ACLU, which obtained the records through litigation under the Freedom of Information Act, says children in custody near the southern border have alleged everything from being run over by vehicles, to being threatened with rape, to being ordered to remove their clothes before questioning. Moreover, the civil rights group alleges, the DHS Office for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties and DHS Office of Inspector general have "failed to fully investigate, much less rectify, egregious abuse and neglect of migrant children." The records the ACLU obtained cover 2009 to 2014.

The allegations come as the New York Times reported Friday that the Department of Health and Human Services says it has lost track of nearly 1,500 immigrant children it placed with sponsors in the United States.

The ACLU said the records reflect "rampant abuse." Children desribe "being stomped on, punched, kicked, run over with vehicles, tased, and forced to maintain stress positions by CBP officials." Minors also reported that they suffered verbal abuse by CBP officials, who called them names including "dog," "piece of crap," "son of a bitch," and "prostitute," as well as telling them they "contaminate this country."
Click to expand...

Of course, the DHS adamantly denied the ACLU's findings. The left probably will too.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/aclu-report-records-claim-border-agents-neglected-abused-migrant-kids/
 
Amelia said:
Before Trump I made the mistake of thinking "it couldn't happen here".

Trump is actively pushing us toward that point.

It's not just "conceivable". The probability is growing.
Click to expand...

Maybe because we actually have a white nationalist in the White House?

Top aides to President Donald Trump are planning additional crackdowns on immigration before the November midterms, despite a growing backlash over the administration’s move to separate migrant children from parents at the border.

Senior policy adviser Stephen Miller and a team of officials from the Justice Department, Department of Labor, Department of Homeland Security, and the Office of Management and Budget have been quietly meeting for months to find ways to use executive authority and under-the-radar rule changes to strengthen hard-line U.S. immigration policies, according to interviews with half a dozen current and former administration officials and Republicans close to the White House.
Click to expand...

https://www.politico.com/story/2018...immigration-crackdowns-before-midterms-652246

I think Stephen Miller deserves to be one of those cages.
 
Amelia said:
We are watching the U.S. turn into a country where a Holocaust could happen.

We are watching how once-good people can become numb to abject evil and even take part in it. It is possible that in ten years we'll be facing human rights crime tribunals and hundreds or thousands of Americans will be on trial and their answer for the horrors they committed will be "we were just following orders".

Trump is calling on people to give a real time demonstration how decent people can evolve into Nazis -- and they're falling in line to do as he asks.
Click to expand...

Trump derangement syndrome on full display at dp!!!

It is not too late to move to Mexico. Go adopt these kids yourself.
 
Mr Person said:
The fast increase started around then. It wasn't definable as a spike until it had continued and in fact spiked. But that's beside the point.

I said "[you're] comparing apples with quasars." In other words, both parties since the 90s were at fault via oversight of the FDA or lack thereof, and its resulting lack of oversight over opioid manufacturers, particularly of oxycodone.

This is far more likely to be reported about as, (1) it is a deliberate act by one party (GOP, via Trump), (2) One party keeps putting it in the news (GOP, via Trump), (3) it is generally more culpable as an act of commission rather than of omission, (4) this practice can easily ended by the party responsible, not so opioid addiction. There's a lot more.

Put as simply as possible: widespread opioid addiction is nothing like Trump deliberately having immigration enforcement pointlessly rip children away from families. There's no reason to separate them. Separating them doesn't make it any easier to deport them or anything. It's pointless evil, and he's playing it for political points with dishonest morons who will believe him if he tells them it's actually the Democrats' fault he made this change.




What is your point supposed to be anyway? "The media" didn't start talking about an "opioid crisis" once deaths started to rise more sharply in 2010 therefore ____________ ?

Therefore someone shouldn't make a youtube video of this?
Click to expand...
Therefore I refuse to be swayed by propaganda that does not allow us to enforce our laws. I won't put up with an invasion because crying children are shoved in my face. This is emotional manipulation.

Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk
 
phattonez said:
Therefore I refuse to be swayed by propaganda that does not allow us to enforce our laws. I won't put up with an invasion because crying children are shoved in my face. This is emotional manipulation.
Click to expand...


That is an incredibly stupid and dishonest thing to say. There is no reason why they could not deport the entire family without first separating the children for months. Separating children has nothing to do with enforcing immigration law.




You say you don't want crying children shoved in your face. Why do you think other people want lying posts shoved in theirs?
 
trixare4kids said:
Apparently, abused kids only matter if they can be used to attack Donald Trump and his evil supporters.

Well, not so fast, anti-Trump virtue signalers...


Of course, the DHS adamantly denied the ACLU's findings. The left probably will too.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/aclu-report-records-claim-border-agents-neglected-abused-migrant-kids/
Click to expand...

Oh, a government agency denied it?

Funny how you believe what government agencies say depending entirely on what they are saying and who they are saying it about.
 
Lutherf said:
What, specifically, have Republicans done recently to encourage non-citizens to cross the border illegally with their children? If anyone is to blame for this kind of thing it would seem that the primary fault would be with the individual or individuals who knowingly and willingly broke US immigration law.
Click to expand...

Trump knowingly and willingly (ok, "knowingly" is a stretch for Trump) breaks US immigration law and treaty law. (Remember Raoul Wallenberg knowingly and willingly broke the law as well.) But you may have a point. I can hear the Honduran family discussing their departure now:

"Well, we have been threatened with death if our son doesn't join the drug gangs, so we need to flee north, maybe to join Uncle Ramon, who is a citizen in Chicago?"

"But hubby, won't we be knowingly and willingly breaking US immigration law?"

"My dear, don't you remember when the Nicaraguan Contras were here, knowingly and willingly breaking Honduran immigration law? The Americans even trained them, sort of like the smugglers who will train us on our journey. One of the former Contra commanders is now head of the local drug cartel."

Sigh.
 
Nickyjo said:
Trump knowingly and willingly (ok, "knowingly" is a stretch for Trump) breaks US immigration law and treaty law. (Remember Raoul Wallenberg knowingly and willingly broke the law as well.) But you may have a point. I can hear the Honduran family discussing their departure now:

"Well, we have been threatened with death if our son doesn't join the drug gangs, so we need to flee north, maybe to join Uncle Ramon, who is a citizen in Chicago?"

"But hubby, won't we be knowingly and willingly breaking US immigration law?"

"My dear, don't you remember when the Nicaraguan Contras were here, knowingly and willingly breaking Honduran immigration law? The Americans even trained them, sort of like the smugglers who will train us on our journey. One of the former Contra commanders is now head of the local drug cartel."

Sigh.
Click to expand...

Liked for the first half....



I mean, yeah, we're ****ing hypocrites in terms of things done in the name of national security. Then again, national security trumps hypocrisy. But further, that's not really the discussion the family would be having. It's more like you set it up: OK, we can die. OR we can try to live. What sounds like a better idea?
 
Mr Person said:
That is an incredibly stupid and dishonest thing to say. There is no reason why they could not deport the entire family without first separating the children for months. Separating children has nothing to do with enforcing immigration law.
Click to expand...

The problem is the law stating that children cannot be detained. This is why they're getting separated. It would be less of a problem if we didn't have a huge backlog and a wave of immigrants at the border, but such is the reality of the situation. Do you know how you avoid getting separated from your children? Don't come here. Besides, the children are being sent to closest relatives as soon as possible, but with so many people flooding the border, of course there is a backlog.

What those who are broadcasting this propaganda want is for us to simply stop enforcing our immigration law. That's out of the question. Let's instead increase manpower at the border to take care of this problem and prevent it from ever happening again.

You say you don't want crying children shoved in your face. Why do you think other people want lying posts shoved in theirs?
Click to expand...

What have I lied about?
 
StuPedaso said:
Didn't you hear … she's an actor … just ask Colter.

:(
Click to expand...

Best quote of the day: Trump said the US will not become a migrant camp or a refugee holding facility. Well for much of our history we have been a migrant camp, but that's another argument. But a "refugee holding facility"? What if Thailand had said that about the Vietnamese in the 1970s, or Florida about Cubans?
 
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