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Callous. Soulless. Craven. Trump. -- Daily News

veritas1 said:
Liberals don't want to stop illegals.
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So, if Trump tortured illegals you would claim that criticism of this policy is tantamount to wanting open borders?

Would you agree that riping a baby out of a mother's arms is torture?
 
Rogue Valley said:
Americans don't forget such cruelty, especially on American soil.
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Phys251 said:
The Right cheerleads for literally ripping children and infants right out of the hands of their parents and then whines when someone actually calls them on it. What is actually callous, soulless, and craven is the Right's utter disregard for people whom they consider to be different from themselves. The Right loves cruelty as long as the targets are nonwhite.

See? I can play this little game, too.
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Oh really?

By chance, havent forgotten these, speaking of cruelty to children?

View attachment 67234539

View attachment 67234540


You want to talk truly soulless, callous and craven?

This last is of 22 children who werent just ripped away from their parents, but along with them they were burnt alive, shot or/and run over by converted tanks. Seems like your leftist Americans dont ever forget...

Just innocently, conveniently, fail to remember, eh? All on American soil, bro.
 
OscarLevant said:
You missed the boat with veritas1. He was accusing Obama of separating children from parents, he wasn't complaining about the number of deportations. Heck, the right want more of that stuff. But Obama did not separate children from parents via the denying of asylum applicants due process, like Sessions and Trump are doing. (unless someone can prove to me otherwise ).

You should have called him on it. Well, I did.

Another thing that isn't reported, as that during Obama, what they were calling deportations was expanded, and that is why the numbers were increased over Bush.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/obama-deported-more-people/
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That is not what Sessions and Trump are doing:

H.H.S. Sec. Alex Azar responds: "Individual children are separated from their parents only when those parents cross the border illegally and are arrested. We can't have children with parents who are in incarceration, so they are given to me."

"If one presents at an actual border crossing, and presents a case to come into this country, one is not arrested and one's children are not separated from them," he said. "So the best advice I have is, actually present yourself at a legal border crossing and make your case."

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...illegally.html
 
holbritter said:
What is callous, soulless and craven is a mother who would put her child in this situation in the first place.
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What makes you think an asylum seeker would have detailed knowledge of a recent Trump policy change? And besides, isn't this victim blaming? If Trump ordered the rape and torture of children of asylum seekers, would you still blame the parents for putting the children in that situation?
 
Bucky said:
If they are crossing the border, they are committing a crime. That makes them criminals.

If a mother of starving children steals from a store, that makes her a criminal. If she steals over $1,000 worth of products, that means she committed a felony, no different from a bad thief stealing from a jewelry store.
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Sorry but that comparison doesn't work. Motivations matter and courts recognize that. You don't seriously think a mother stealing to feed her kids would be treated the same as a professional thief who stole from a jewelry store do you?
 
Gaius46 said:
Sorry but that comparison doesn't work. Motivations matter and courts recognize that. You don't seriously think a mother stealing to feed her kids would be treated the same as a professional thief who stole from a jewelry store do you?
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Just because one crime is worse than another doesn't mean the lesser crime is not a crime. That's why we have gradations in our criminal justice system that identifies the type of crime and punishes it accordingly.
 
HowardBThiname said:
Just because one crime is worse than another doesn't mean the lesser crime is not a crime. That's why we have gradations in our criminal justice system that identifies the type of crime and punishes it accordingly.
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I didn't say otherwise. It's a crime but an understandable and completely forgivable one.
 
Gaius46 said:
I didn't say otherwise. It's a crime but an understandable and completely forgivable one.
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Sorry -- our laws do not consider it "forgivable," although, personally, you may hold the view. Some first-entry immigrants are now being charged with a crime, and most subsequent-entry immigrants are charged.
 
HowardBThiname said:
Sorry -- our laws do not consider it "forgivable," although, personally, you may hold the view. Some first-entry immigrants are now being charged with a crime, and most subsequent-entry immigrants are charged.
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I don't want to get into an extended discussion on forgiveness, since that's not the point of the thread, but suffice to say forgiveness doesn't mean ignoring it happened and if we didn't forgive crimes we'd probably never let people out of prison
 
Gaius46 said:
Sorry but that comparison doesn't work. Motivations matter and courts recognize that. You don't seriously think a mother stealing to feed her kids would be treated the same as a professional thief who stole from a jewelry store do you?
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The motive does not mean there is PC to believe someone committed a crime, in which they were arrested for the crime, the arrest separates the child from the parent, since the kid cannot accompany mommy or daddy to jail.

Mom takes son to Walmart to shop. Mom shoplifts $700 dollars while her son is with her (parent crosses the border illegally with their kid). The theft is a misdemeanor offense in some states, it is a misdemeanor Indiana for a first time offender for the crime of theft and the value of the stolen item(s) is below $750 dollars (First time illegal border crossing is a misdemeanor under federal law). The police arrest the mom (illegal border crosser is arrested) but the child cannot accompany mommy to jail (kid cannot accompany border crosser to jail), so mommy and son are separated from each other (so border crosser and kid are separated from each other. In some instances, DCS is called for placement of the child.

The motive to commit the crime does not negate existence a crime was committed, PC exists to arrest for the crime, and the person can be charged with a crime.
 
OscarLevant said:
This picture on the cover of New York Daily News says it all.


View attachment 67234521


See you cruel Republicans in November.
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The picture undoubtedly evokes a strong emotional response. However, you are appealing to pity while not adequately addressing the facts.

Crossing the border in a manner other than one prescribed by statute is a federal crime. Where probable cause exists to believe someone has illegally crossed the border, they can be arrested. The arrest separates the subject from any children they had with them when they crossed the border and with them at the time of their apprehension. The child cannot accompany the arrested subject to jail.

This unfortunate circumstance occurs everyday in the U.S. judicial system to U.S. citizens. U.S. citizens who are arrested for a crime while they have their children with them. The child cannot accompany the subject to jail.

The person committing the crime is to blame, not Republicans, not the President.
 
NotreDame said:
The motive does not mean there is PC to believe someone committed a crime, in which they were arrested for the crime, the arrest separates the child from the parent, since the kid cannot accompany mommy or daddy to jail.

Mom takes son to Walmart to shop. Mom shoplifts $700 dollars while her son is with her (parent crosses the border illegally with their kid). The theft is a misdemeanor offense in some states, it is a misdemeanor Indiana for a first time offender for the crime of theft and the value of the stolen item(s) is below $750 dollars (First time illegal border crossing is a misdemeanor under federal law). The police arrest the mom (illegal border crosser is arrested) but the child cannot accompany mommy to jail (kid cannot accompany border crosser to jail), so mommy and son are separated from each other (so border crosser and kid are separated from each other. In some instances, DCS is called for placement of the child.

The motive to commit the crime does not negate existence a crime was committed, PC exists to arrest for the crime, and the person can be charged with a crime.
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Did I say otherwise?
 
truthatallcost said:
When in doubt, snap a photograph of a crying child, and attempt to use emotional blackmail to get your way. We all know that small children never cry, and the one currently being used by the American media must have been severely wronged by Donald Trump in order to break into tears.
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That's some good deflection.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Americans don't forget such cruelty, especially on American soil.
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We forget things in like 2 weeks time. The news cycle will change, this issue won't be resolved, and we will be bitching about something new.
 
truthatallcost said:
When in doubt, snap a photograph of a crying child, and attempt to use emotional blackmail to get your way. We all know that small children never cry, and the one currently being used by the American media must have been severely wronged by Donald Trump in order to break into tears.
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I guess it's more fake news, huh? Leave it to Republicans to make apathy a virtue. How ironic that the people who have used their religious zealotry to shame the rest of the country for being "cruel" to fetuses are consistently cruel to born children. I guess right wing xenophobia excuses absolutely anything and that shame they love to direct at the rest of us is something they are sadly immune to themselves.

While the attorney genera stands around proselytizing and the Republican base ignores gross incompetence and immorality from their leader, they have the balls to accuse the media of being manipulative by speaking the truth. The conservatives aren't counter culture, as your tag line suggests, they are ANTI-culture. They are here to tear it all down. If they can't have their white, christian hegemony they will poison democracy for everyone and they don't give a **** who gets hurt.
 
CriticalThought said:
True, but Obama generally went after illegals who had criminal convictions or were facing charges for crimes. He was also more likely to incarcerate families together with only the men being separated. The Trump administration closed the family detention facilities and created new ones to house adults and children separately. They then started the zero tolerance policy about 6 weeks ago which vastly ramped up the seperations to the point that it is straining the system. The Democrats can truly be blamed for creating the foundation for this system, but Trump has fundamentally altered it so that separation of any and all illegal immigrant families will now be the status quo until the HHS system buckles. It is unsustainable. There are not enough foster homes, lawyers and clerks, detention beds, or resources for the system to continue on this trajectory. He is gambling that the threats to the very lives of the children in Central America is less scary than the possibility of the family being separated in the U.S. and that will deter illegal immigration. It is a bad bet.
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I think this just needs to be stated again. Because in all the hyperpartisan brouhaha that our system has devolved into, we lose contact with facts. It was done by Obama, but not in the same way it's being done by Trump. And the way that Trump is addressing the issue is stressing the system to its breaking point. There are smart ways to do this and stupid ways to do this. The stupid ways make things worse. Trump is making it worse.

Furthermore, I think that this demonstrates well the established trends of Trump and his administrations. Be it anything from international trade agreements, to tariffs, to attacks on the press; Trump carries on in ways in which to stress systems to their breaking points. He hasn't actually made anything better at this point, but instead has sat us upon powder kegs and lit the fuse. And once things start to break, it won't be pretty and there won't be any going back. And likely it will end up worse than a few thousand kids in detention centers.
 
Ikari said:
I think this just needs to be stated again. Because in all the hyperpartisan brouhaha that our system has devolved into, we lose contact with facts. It was done by Obama, but not in the same way it's being done by Trump. And the way that Trump is addressing the issue is stressing the system to its breaking point. There are smart ways to do this and stupid ways to do this. The stupid ways make things worse. Trump is making it worse.

Furthermore, I think that this demonstrates well the established trends of Trump and his administrations. Be it anything from international trade agreements, to tariffs, to attacks on the press; Trump carries on in ways in which to stress systems to their breaking points. He hasn't actually made anything better at this point, but instead has sat us upon powder kegs and lit the fuse. And once things start to break, it won't be pretty and there won't be any going back. And likely it will end up worse than a few thousand kids in detention centers.
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The only difference between now and then is that some laws are no longer being ignored.

The outcome is the same.
 
Mason66 said:
The only difference between now and then is that some laws are no longer being ignored.

The outcome is the same.
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The only difference between now and then is the loss of international respect and influence the US has had, a ballooning problem with keeping thousands of children in detention centers, a burgeoning global trade war with traditional allies and beyond. Growing debt, growing war, and America being made the laughing stock of the world.

But yeah, other than that, it's pretty much the same.
 
Bucky said:
If they are crossing the border, they are committing a crime. That makes them criminals.
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You are misinformed.

The vast majority of mothers with children are journeying over tough, dangerous, terrain, (takes about a month )fleeing persecution from their own countries which are in turmoil, Honduras, etc, ( central america ) and are seeking asylum, which is legal. Why? Because the mothers are trying to save their children. Trump and Sessions are denying them due process and calling them criminals and ripping the kids away from mothers.

Here's a quote form Laura Bush:
I live in a border state. I appreciate the need to enforce and protect our international boundaries, but this zero-tolerance policy is cruel. It is immoral. And it breaks my heart.
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What Trump and Sessions are doing is a new policy, and has never been done before. In the last six weeks, some 2000 kids are without their parents. Moreover, Trump is claiming that this new policy that HE INITIATED is a "Democrat law', which is a TOTAL LIE, there is no law, nor did Obama do this.

How can you condone this?
 
holbritter said:
What is callous, soulless and craven is a mother who would put her child in this situation in the first place.
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That mother journeyed over a month through Mexico upo from Central America, fleeing persecution and turmoil that exists in her own country to save her child in order to seek asylum in the United States, where they believed America would accept them. Trump and Sessions, in a new policy they created, are denying these lawful asylum seekers due process and treating them as criminals and separating children from their mothers.

Feel better, now?
 
holbritter said:
That is not what Sessions and Trump are doing:

H.H.S. Sec. Alex Azar responds: "Individual children are separated from their parents only when those parents cross the border illegally and are arrested. We can't have children with parents who are in incarceration, so they are given to me."

"If one presents at an actual border crossing, and presents a case to come into this country, one is not arrested and one's children are not separated from them," he said. "So the best advice I have is, actually present yourself at a legal border crossing and make your case."

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...illegally.html
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And you trust him? I don't. These moms and kids don't know the law, or how to "make their case". I doubt they will be given the benefit of the doubt, given how Sessions and Trump are heartless bastards.

Besides, it's a new policy, we never did this before, prosecuted moms with kids and separated them, we just deported them.

Laura Bush:

I live in a border state. I appreciate the need to enforce and protect our international boundaries, but this zero-tolerance policy is cruel. It is immoral. And it breaks my heart.
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OscarLevant said:
I have no reason to doubt the photojournalist who was interviewed about the photo. He seemed very credible, to me. They are doing this, so I'm not seeing a problem with the photo.
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"He seemed very credible, to me." There-in lies the problem, the most successful con men are those who seem to be the most credible. Photos don't lie, but photographers do.
 
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