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is this what a majority of Americans want to happen?

independentusa said:
https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/12/us/immigration-separated-children-southern-border/index.html
Are we a nation that is now happy to take children from their parents and take those seeking asylum to criminal courts instead of Immigration courts? What do you think?
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Now that this is happening, my family will no longer be entering the USA. It's not even about boycotting, we just don't feel safe anymore. I'm an American citizen but my partner is not, and if this is the kind of thing that can happen under Trump's America then I'm out. My brother who still lives in the U.S. is now leaving. Him and his fiancee are moving abroad.

It's not even about Trump in particular. America has been heading in this awful direction since George W... and arguably since Clinton. The grave just keeps getting dug deeper and deeper. Right now American democracy is in grave danger, more than ever before, and people still believe their country is moving in the right direction. Look at some of the polls.

I'm glad I got out when I did. I'm horrified by what's happening and I'm nervous about what's going to happen next. If you put a frog into boiling water it'll jump out but if you ramp up the temperature slowly it'll die in the water because it can't recognize what's happening. The government is the fire and the People have become the frog.
 
Bucky said:
How do we know these actually these are actually their parents? Do they have birth certificates? Proof?
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please. not even a good deflection.
 
Renae said:
I'm not a fan, but then I'm not a fan of what came before it.

See, the problem here is you're not even discussing the matter, why and what. You're just "KEEP FAMILIES TOGETHER" and that's only because it's the outrage at Trump de jour being pushed by the usual suspects.

Did you know, families that show up at the proper port of entry aren't separated?
Bet you didn't' know that.

This isn't something new, that's the thing that is so.. damning to all this supposed care and outrage. And what's so sad. The real answer is if people knew they couldn't enter the USA except through proper ports of entry... this **** would stop. Until that is so, this will continue, if the admin is forced to cave and give "Enter free" cards like so much DID happen previously (which lead to this surge of families and children being used by drug cartels and other criminals... ) the problem will get just worse for our national sovereignty and for so many children. But you'll feel better because your response to the call to show YOUR OUTRAGE resulted in a politically pleasing solution.
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the practice is sick, cruel, and pointless. that is why i don't support it, and neither should you.
 
Fledermaus said:
That wasn't Fox news.. Was it?
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not sure. however, multiple Republicans have come at me with the same talking point worded almost identically, so i assume that it's coming from one of the Trump news outlets.
 
Fledermaus said:
Did you support families sending their children to the border in an effort to get them in solo?
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i support not splitting up families as a deterrent. is that difficult to understand?
 
jnug said:
Irrelevant. Has nothing to do with what is happening to these kids. Nobody is trying to figure out how they were being treated and how do you find out anyway if that IS what you cared out when you are separating the families. Run that garbage by somebody else.

We are at best warehousing these kids which amounts to substandard care which we the taxpayers are paying for and which we will pay for again in the form of civil liabilities for the abuses that occur while we, the US Government is responsible for them.

If Trump was after Illegal Immigration policy I STILL would not accept this abhorrent, even sadistic taking of hostages in order to get a bill passed. But he is not. He apparently will only accept the draconian Steven Miller legal Immigration standard though I don't remember electing Steven Miller to anything.
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Interesting term "sub standard care"...

As opposed to where they come from?
 
Fledermaus said:
It looked like the Washington Times. Not sure of the slant on that source.
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ah, ok. i think that they lean Republican, but not as much as fox.
 
Helix said:
i support not splitting up families as a deterrent. is that difficult to understand?
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I understand the emotion. I also understand that we caged kids in the past (a photo from the Obama admin was used to slam Trump's policy) and there was nary a whimper from many on this forum...
 
Fledermaus said:
I understand the emotion. I also understand that we caged kids in the past (a photo from the Obama admin was used to slam Trump's policy) and there was nary a whimper from many on this forum...
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since it's a right wing talking point being parroted by multiple Trumpists, i don't know what the extent of holding children as hostages back then actually was. however, there's no ****ing way i would have supported that no matter who was president.
 
Helix said:
since it's a right wing talking point being parroted by multiple Trumpists, i don't know what the extent of holding children as hostages back then actually was. however, there's no ****ing way i would have supported that no matter who was president.
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What I can find are guidelines going back to the 1990s stating a maximum 20 day hold for children.

At work so will look into this further when at a real computer.
 
Helix said:
the practice is sick, cruel, and pointless. that is why i don't support it, and neither should you.
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So you support lawlessness, abuse of the system and exploitation of children which was happening prior. GOOD TO KNOW.
 
Renae said:
So you support lawlessness, abuse of the system and exploitation of children which was happening prior. GOOD TO KNOW.
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i don't waste time on strawmen. have a great day.
 
Helix said:
i don't waste time on strawmen. have a great day.
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Wait, make a claim and say I should agree with you:
the practice is sick, cruel, and pointless. that is why i don't support it, and neither should you.
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The converse is that children are being exploited, which is factual, that families were being given a free pass into the country (factual, and encouraged lawlessness), people were taking children that were NOT ALWAYS THEIRS and when caught "ASYLUM!!" (again factually true)

So the new system is fighting those things, but you don't like the new system.

You haven't given an alternative, so you give the very real impression you want how it was, which was not good either but it was politically convenient for you.
 
DifferentDrummr said:
No problem: just pay about US$20 for an 'extended tourist' visa that's good for 6 months. When it's about to expire, just renew it for another 6 months. You can keep doing this for the rest of your life.
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That needs to change.

<alt>doxygen said:
The ones being discussed here are mostly people that are being stopped at the border where they showed up seeking asylum. Those people are not "here illegally" unless they snuck across the border and never tried to declare themselves.

Trump is making a spectacle because that's what it does. It angers libs and makes his base all moist. That's a win-win for him. I just hope he doesn't ever need to start a war to keep his base happy.
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This same thing was happening under Obama and the hypocrites on the Left, didn't give a damn about it. It was a non-issue. With Trump, it's an issue.

Hypothetical said:
there is no way you can say that with a straight face. it defies all logic unless of course your logic dictates, for some strange reason, that you believe we should just overlook the fact that we have immigration laws. why shouldn't the kids be treated at least as good as children who's parents have to be incarcerated for a crime? that is basically what this is, according to our laws.

maybe that will mean they need to be treated better, but we need to know how those kids are treated first and whether or not it's a big issue.

because one thing I have learned with radical leftists, ANYTHING that doesn't go their way, is a big issue, to them. they will find a way to make it so.
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These kids are being treated better, fed better and are better off, than they were where they came from.
 
just saw this tweet.

Donald J. Trump said:
It is the Democrats fault for being weak and ineffective with Boarder Security and Crime. Tell them to start thinking about the people devastated by Crime coming from illegal immigration. Change the laws!
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the president of the United States cannot spell "border." let that one sink in for a minute.
 
Oh ....Boarder's as opposed to Borders. OK now he has a point! I have always thought that Boarders created an undue threat to National Security.

Head of Homeland Security making a case that is ridiculous.
- She claims we have to prosecute 100% of lawbreakers. We have NEVER prosecuted 100% of lawbreakers. We don't prosecute 100% of the people WE KNOW are breaking the law. We don't prosecute 100% of the felonies we know about. This is a misdemeanor offense the parents are committing.
- She claims that this new policy is not damaging to the children. That claim is laughable. Taking responsibility for kids that have been sent without parents at all are a different issue. They are by nature older kids and they have already been separated from their parents by choice. The 2,000 so far that have been separated by the US government are by nature younger and have been separated by us. So they have been made to bear an actual separation that is not by choice.

Sorry lady..you can stand there and blather on all you want. The only thing she said that was correct is that the decision to prosecute 100% of the asylum seekers AND separating the kids from the parents is the issue here. NO Ms Neilsen, we have not done anything like this and at this rate across such a broad age spectrum before and NO Ms Neilson, neither you nor Donald nor Steven Miller are going to get the LEGAL IMMIGRATION policy you are insisting on.

And if you want people to come through legal ports of entry and if you want to make the claim that people should just come back if they can't be processed at a legal point of entry you would help Mexico deal with the people waiting on that side of the border. But you aren't are you?
 
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Helix said:
please. not even a good deflection.
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It is not a deflection, it is a fact. If children are the currency to get in this country, poor kids will be stolen from their families so criminals can come here.
 
Bucky said:
It is not a deflection, it is a fact. If children are the currency to get in this country, poor kids will be stolen from their families so criminals can come here.
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it's a conspiracy! lol.

sorry, i don't believe those screaming, scared kids are all crisis actors or whatever. try again.
 
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