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Trade wars. They're so easy!

Geoist said:
Protectionism is in direct opposition to libertarian thought, whether that be right-libertarian or left-libertarian. You should already know this...
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He does know it. But he has no rational escape from the contradiction.
 
Geoist said:
Protectionism is in direct opposition to libertarian thought, whether that be right-libertarian or left-libertarian. You should already know this...
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So libertarians support unfettered trade with totalitarian nations who impose tariffs on our products and employ slave labor to undercut our industry?
 
Fletch said:
Trump did that and was mocked by mindless leftists.
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“Trump did that and was mocked by mindless leftists.”

My statement was not referring to Trump, but to those who so often in the past got up on their pedestal to shout out that capitalism is great and needs free trade and an open market to thrive and make life better for everybody. Now they are silent. As for Trump, you can’t provide any evidence of him espousing free trade and an open market like you claim: “Trump did that.” Nor can you therefore provide evidence that he was then “mocked by leftists.” All you can do is troll because you can’t engage in forthright debate. That requires a rational mind and the work of research, which are characteristics there is no hint of in your post.
 
Fletch said:
So libertarians support unfettered trade with totalitarian nations who impose tariffs on our products and employ slave labor to undercut our industry?
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Oh, the irony of this statement is rich. Your Lord and Savior takes advantage of that slave labor, as does that daughter of his he wants to bang.

But to answer your question, yes, majority of libertarians would say open trade with everybody, even the totalitarian nations.
 
Fletch said:
Trump did that and was mocked by mindless leftists.
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Show the evidence that Trump spoke in support of free trade and an open market, and then was "mocked" by leftists. If you can't back up your own words, your words are worthless.
 
Grand Mal said:
I wonder if the Chinese will target products that come from Trumpville like Canada and Europe have.
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This whole tariff situation stems from the demise of our steel & aluminum industries that were paramount for victory in WWII.

South Carolina Senator Fritz Hollings once wrote , “The defense industry has been off-shored. We had to wait months to get flat panel displays
from Japan before we launched Desert Storm. Boeing can’t build a fighter plane except for the parts from India. Sikorsky can’t build a
helicopter except for the tail motor from Turkey… Today, we can’t go to war except for the favor of a foreign country.”
 
bluesmoke said:
Show the evidence that Trump spoke in support of free trade and an open market, and then was "mocked" by leftists. If you can't back up your own words, your words are worthless.
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He said it at the G-7 summit and there are threads here where he was mocked for doing so.
 
slick said:
This whole tariff situation stems from the demise of our steel & aluminum industries that were paramount for victory in WWII.

South Carolina Senator Fritz Hollings once wrote , “The defense industry has been off-shored. We had to wait months to get flat panel displays
from Japan before we launched Desert Storm. Boeing can’t build a fighter plane except for the parts from India. Sikorsky can’t build a
helicopter except for the tail motor from Turkey… Today, we can’t go to war except for the favor of a foreign country.”
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Steel? I dunno, maybe you could become self-sufficient but aluminum? Forget it. Aluminum ore, bauxite, comes mostly from China and Australia. It's only processed in the US and Canada because it requires a huge amount of cheap electricity. There's an aluminum smelter up on the BC coast, near Alaska, where every shovelful of ore comes in by ship. It's only there because electricity is dirt cheap to the smelter. They have their own dam at Kemano, BC.
Tariffs won't protect your home-grown metal industries. They'll just make your manufacturers pay more for metal than manufacturers everywhere else.
 
Geoist said:
Oh, the irony of this statement is rich. Your Lord and Savior takes advantage of that slave labor, as does that daughter of his he wants to bang.

But to answer your question, yes, majority of libertarians would say open trade with everybody, even the totalitarian nations.
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well I guess I am not as libertarian leaning as I thought, because that's pretty dumb for those who supposedly espouse freedom and individual rights.
 
Fletch said:
So libertarians support unfettered trade with totalitarian nations who impose tariffs on our products and employ slave labor to undercut our industry?
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So libertarianism is negotiable?
 
Grand Mal said:
Steel? I dunno, maybe you could become self-sufficient but aluminum? Forget it. Aluminum ore, bauxite, comes mostly from China and Australia. It's only processed in the US and Canada because it requires a huge amount of cheap electricity. There's an aluminum smelter up on the BC coast, near Alaska, where every shovelful of ore comes in by ship. It's only there because electricity is dirt cheap to the smelter. They have their own dam at Kemano, BC.
Tariffs won't protect your home-grown metal industries. They'll just make your manufacturers pay more for metal than manufacturers everywhere else.
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Good info!
During the war 1942-45 one state Pennsylavania produced 20% of the worlds steel, get it, 20%
of the steel in the entire world came from Pennsylvania, it furthermore made 31% of the steel produced
in the USA. If you know math that meant that in that time period the USA was able to produce
60% of the worlds steel. We won the war because of these & similar singular edges, the availability
of raw materials & the ability to manufacture the raw materials.

China is now the worlds leading producer of steel averaging 627 metric tons of steel per year, Japan is
second 109 metric tons & the US imports steel dumped here from both of them.
So a country that produced 60% of the worlds steel during WWII is now producing one ninth of the
steel produced by a possible enemy & less than we need. How could our leaders ever allow
that to happen.

Tariff will hopefully change this situation drastically, no one is
saying we need to produce 60% of the worlds anything again but Trump will make sure
we are not in these vulnerable situations in the future and a worthwhile by product of
this policy we be bringing back jobs & industry to the homeland.

i'm trying to digest all of this. I'm surprised we that only 2 or 3% of the steel we import comes from China
which produces 50% of all the steel in the world. I'm surprised that we still
produce 75% of the steel we use but I do feel it's necessary
to make sure U.S. steel makers get the necessary protection in order to remain viable.
 
poweRob said:
Simple as pie. And easy to win too!

China: 'The US has launched a trade war'

The world's two biggest economies are now at war over trade.

China accused the United States of firing the first shot on Friday when the White House said that it would impose tariffs of 25% on $50 billion worth of Chinese goods.

The announcement confirms a threat first made by President Donald Trump in March and follows months of trade talks between the two sides. A truce was announced in May, but it proved short-lived.

"The United States has kept changing its mind and now launched a trade war," China's Commerce Ministry said in a statement.

The Chinese government said it would respond in kind to the US tariffs, which will apply to roughly 1,100 exports and will target China's aerospace, robotics, manufacturing and auto industries.

"China does not want a trade war," it said, adding that it would "fight back vigorously" in defense of its national interests, globalization and the world trade system.​
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No Trump is simply leveling the playing field. Trump already said lets all get rid of our tariffs and no country accepted. Trump is doing exactly what he was elected to do. He is stopping all these countries from taking advantage of us by making better deals for our country.
 
Hypothetical said:
well I guess I am not as libertarian leaning as I thought, because that's pretty dumb for those who supposedly espouse freedom and individual rights.
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Libertarians would argue that closing trade only empowers the totalitarians. I am not saying I always agree with libertarians on that issue (I understand there are exceptions to the rule), but in most cases they are absolutely right. Take a look at Cuba, for example. That no-trade rule has only benefited the Castro regime for the last 50-60 years.
 
Trumps doing exactly what he was hired to do..


Tim-
 
Geoist said:
Aren't libertarians supposed to be opposed to trade wars?
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Most of the people here who claim to be libertarians have absolutely no idea what a libertarian is. Milton Friedman is rolling over in his grave.
 
SonOfDaedalus said:
Most of the people here who claim to be libertarians have absolutely no idea what a libertarian is. Milton Friedman is rolling over in his grave.
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I would agree, and I have gone on a number of rants about it here in the past. Some seem to think by being 'okay' with gay marriage that actually makes them a libertarian. I disagree with right-libertarians on a number of issues, but at least the real ones actually want to downsize the bloated military industrial complex.
 
slick said:
This whole tariff situation stems from the demise of our steel & aluminum industries that were paramount for victory in WWII.

South Carolina Senator Fritz Hollings once wrote , “The defense industry has been off-shored. We had to wait months to get flat panel displays
from Japan before we launched Desert Storm. Boeing can’t build a fighter plane except for the parts from India. Sikorsky can’t build a
helicopter except for the tail motor from Turkey… Today, we can’t go to war except for the favor of a foreign country.”
Click to expand...

So you think the world is unchanged since WWII? That's pretty foolish. Almost as foolish as calling Canada a security risk.
 
Fletch said:
He said it at the G-7 summit and there are threads here where he was mocked for doing so.
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You can't even quote the Trump statement you allude to, let alone how less than nothing it lends to support of your claims. You've been thoroughly refuted and your words are without merit for lack of evidence to support what you say.
 
Fletch said:
So libertarians support unfettered trade with totalitarian nations who impose tariffs on our products and employ slave labor to undercut our industry?
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Is there slave labor in Canada and Europe now? Also the US put tariffs on goods like Canadian lumber several times.
 
PIPEWRENCH said:
No Trump is simply leveling the playing field. Trump already said lets all get rid of our tariffs and no country accepted. Trump is doing exactly what he was elected to do. He is stopping all these countries from taking advantage of us by making better deals for our country.
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So is better deals ones where the US can still play dirty on trade and still put tariffs on Canadian lumber and dump corn into Mexico?
 
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