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N.Y. Attorney General Sues Trump Foundation After 2-Year Investigation

AlbqOwl said:
Technially, he says that the Trump Foundation is innocent, not that he personally is innocent. He and his other family members are all multi-millionaires with disposable incomes that cover their basic expenditures quite nicely. There would be no practical reason for them to illegally use not-for-profit funds for routine expenses as is alleged.
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That you take Don Jr.'s word, a defendant in the case and a known liar, as likely truth, is sufficiently absurd. No need to defend it more.

Also, whether someone has a good reason to engage in criminal activity is irrelevant to whether or not they engaged in it. You knew that though. Some people do it out of ignorance, some out of laziness, and some feel they are above the law. None of which will likely matter in the end.
 
Ivanka and Kushner made over $80M last year but they have to dip into the Foundation funds? Rather hilarious but when somebody is on a hysteria driven political witch hunt, not surprising.
 
Simon W. Moon said:
What exactly are you saying the significance of the NYAG personal feelings is in this instance?

Is your position that there's no evidence to back up the allegations of the NYAG? The NYAG invented this from whole cloth because of personal feelings?

Or just that the NYAG chose to use actual evidence because of personal feelings for Trump? The NYAG only chose to use the actual evidencen to pursue this case because of personal feelings?

Or what exactly?
How do the personal feelings you're assigning to the NYAG have an ostensible impact on the facts of the case?
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The Left attack Trump over any issue they can scrounge up no matter how ridiculous or how desperate. It is a campaign designed to slow him down, cost him money, wear him out, hold him back, disable him, prevent him from winning the next election, etc. It's childishly simple and it is a transparent form of assault that will eventually be banned, since it is what 3rd World politicians do as a matter of course.
 
Mach said:
That you take Don Jr.'s word, a defendant in the case and a known liar, as likely truth, is sufficiently absurd. No need to defend it more.

Also, whether someone has a good reason to engage in criminal activity is irrelevant to whether or not they engaged in it. You knew that though. Some people do it out of ignorance, some out of laziness, and some feel they are above the law. None of which will likely matter in the end.
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and to assume that the defendants in a politically motivated lawsuit are automatically guilty is of course indication of superior intelligence, critical thinking, and objectivity.
 
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Rob Larrikin said:
The Left attack Trump over any issue they can scrounge up no matter how ridiculous or how desperate. It is a campaign designed to slow him down, cost him money, wear him out, hold him back, disable him, prevent him from winning the next election, etc. It's childishly simple and it is a transparent form of assault that will eventually be banned, since it is what 3rd World politicians do as a matter of course.
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Yeah I get that you think the NYAG doesn't like Trump.
And I get that you're making very, very vague allegations against the NYAG.
So let's move past that part into the details of your allegation — assuming you have thought this far about it.

Is your position that there's no evidence to back up the allegations of the NYAG? The NYAG invented this from whole cloth because of personal feelings?


Or just that the NYAG chose to use actual evidence because of personal feelings for Trump? The NYAG only chose to use the actual evidenence to pursue this case because of personal feelings?



Or is all you have the suggestion that the NYAG not liking Trump magically invalidates the NYAG actions and allegations?
 
Simon W. Moon said:
Yeah I get that you think the NYAG doesn't like Trump.
And I get that you're making very, very vague allegations against the NYAG.
So let's move past that part into the details of your allegation — assuming you have thought this far about it.

Is your position that there's no evidence to back up the allegations of the NYAG? The NYAG invented this from whole cloth because of personal feelings?

Or just that the NYAG chose to use actual evidence because of personal feelings for Trump? The NYAG only chose to use the actual evidenence to pursue this case because of personal feelings?

Or is all you have the suggestion that the NYAG not liking Trump magically invalidates the NYAG actions and allegations?
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Do you know anything about the Komitet gosudarstvennoy bezopasnosti? They were the Soviet Union’s Committee for State Security. The KGB. Let’s say there was a man in Russia fifty years ago called Boris Kazakov, who had the audacity to start openly criticizing communism or Leonid Brezhnev, as Trump has openly criticized Fake News, the FBI and the Democrats. Do you know what would happen to him?

Boris Kazakov would be taken away at three in the morning by a black car and never seen again.

To justify their sending him to a Gulag, the KGB would put Boris in a cell and torture him until he confessed to doing a list of things. They would also get a list of names from Boris, of people connected with his illegal activity. After sending Boris to his death in Siberia, the Komitet gosudarstvennoy bezopasnosti would keep a file under his name, lising all his “crimes” against the State.

The list would comprise of some things that were true, like Boris Kazakov’s anti-communist and anti-Brezhnev writings, his support of capitalism and his making of illegal pamphlets and posters to support his cause. The list would also contain a number of exaggerations and lies. They would torture Boris to admit that he was a pervert who had sex with young boys and who often raped women. Through torture they would force him to give up names of people that helped him, but half of these would be false. Innocent people named in the list would be rounded up and tortured for more information, as they are today in North Korea.

His file would contain elements of truth as well as lies, distortions, exaggerations and misinformation.

Nobody would usually question this list of real and fictitious crimes, but let’s say the victim had an Uncle who loved him, and was a high ranking communist official. If he objected to the man’s sentence, he might be arrested and tried for treason. If so, then during his short questioning in court, the general prosecutor would ask all the questions you asked above.

Scene: Moscow court. Boris Kazakov’s uncle, Alexei Kazakov, is in the dock.

KGB prosecutor: Yes, we understand that you think the KGB does not like your nephew, Boris Kazakov.
Alexei: I think they…
KGB: And we understand that you're making very, very vague allegations against the KGB.
Alexei: Well, I just…
KGB: So let's move past that part into the details of your allegation — assuming you have thought this far about it.
Alexei: Okay, well…
KGB: Is your position that there's no evidence to back up the allegations of the KGB?
Alexei: The thing is…
KGB: The KGB invented this from whole cloth because of personal feelings?
Alexei: Not all of it, but…
KGB: Or just that the KGB chose to use actual evidence because of personal feelings for Boris Kazakov?
Alexei: I didn’t say that, you…
KGB: The KGB only chose to use the actual evidence to pursue this case because of personal feelings? Is that it? Huh?
Alexei: No, I said…
KGB: Or is all you have the suggestion that the KGB not liking Boris magically invalidates the KGB actions and allegations?
Alexei: You said he was a pervert!
KGB: HE WAS A PERVERT! HE RAPED LITTLE BOYS BY HIS OWN CONFESSION!
Alexei: That is a lie!
KGB: So you side with an enemy of the State?
Alexei: He was not an enemy of the…
KGB: You side with him against Brezhnev and the beloved Soviet Union!
Alexei: No, I…
KGB: Judge, this man is a traitor and we ask that you send him to the Gulag to join his nephew.

Of course the uncle would go to the gulag to join his doomed nephew. Either that, or the judge would be next for the KGB to arrest and torture.

So getting back to your questions, the NYAG will use a mixture of truth, lies, exaggerations, misinformation and Fake News in their attack on Trump. Whatever truth is in the mix is irrelevant. As I say in my signature, I'm not interested in sifting through your cauldron of muck to find a smidgen of truth.
 
Rob Larrikin said:
...the NYAG will use a mixture of truth, lies, exaggerations, misinformation and Fake News in their attack on Trump. Whatever truth is in the mix is irrelevant.
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You assertion is that the NYAG will fabricate evidence to make its case?
You are asserting that the NYAG is engaged in this criminal activity based on your feelings?
You are asserting that the NYAG is engaged in this criminal activity based on rumors you read on the interwebz?
Or, what exactly is the evidence you have seen which leads you to believe that the NYAG is is criminal?

Rob Larrikin said:
As I say in my signature, I'm not interested in sifting through your cauldron of muck to find a smidgen of truth.
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You should avoid politics at all costs.
 
Simon W. Moon said:
You assertion is that the NYAG will fabricate evidence to make its case?
You are asserting that the NYAG is engaged in this criminal activity based on your feelings?
You are asserting that the NYAG is engaged in this criminal activity based on rumors you read on the interwebz?
Or, what exactly is the evidence you have seen which leads you to believe that the NYAG is is criminal?
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KGB: You assertion is that the KGB will fabricate evidence to make its case?
Alexei: Well, in this case my…
KGB: You are asserting that the KGB is engaged in this criminal activity based on your feelings?
Alexei: No, my nephew…
KGB: You are asserting that the KGB is engaged in this criminal activity based on rumors you read on the interwebz?
Alexei: The what?
KGB: Or, what exactly is the evidence you have seen which leads you to believe that the KGB is, is criminal?
Alexei: Look, my nephew Boris Kazakov is a good man. Yes, he criticized communism, but all this other stuff is not true.
KGB: So you’re saying the KGB just made it up?
Alexei: Y… yes.
KGB: Judge?
Judge: Okay, you are sentenced to ten years in the Gulag.
KGB: Umm… Judge?
Judge: After the KGB have finished sweati… I mean, questioning you.
 
Rob Larrikin said:
Do you know anything about the Komitet gosudarstvennoy bezopasnosti? They were the Soviet Union’s Committee for State Security. The KGB.
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That squares rather nicely with another tactic, enjoyed equally by fascists on the Right as well as Communists on the Left:
Repeated fatwahs about how the free press is "the enemy of the people".

Here's another:
Aggressive promotion of a state organ or one functioning de facto as such as being the only trustworthy source of news and information, with the implication, however vague, that anyone who believes otherwise is probably a traitor.

Here's another:
Repeated baseless calls by government officials for free press outlets to be shut down, prosecuted or otherwise penalized.
 
Rob Larrikin said:
KGB: You assertion is that the KGB will fabricate evidence to make its case?
Alexei: Well, in this case my…
KGB: You are asserting that the KGB is engaged in this criminal activity based on your feelings?
Alexei: No, my nephew…
KGB: You are asserting that the KGB is engaged in this criminal activity based on rumors you read on the interwebz?
Alexei: The what?
KGB: Or, what exactly is the evidence you have seen which leads you to believe that the KGB is, is criminal?
Alexei: Look, my nephew Boris Kazakov is a good man. Yes, he criticized communism, but all this other stuff is not true.
KGB: So you’re saying the KGB just made it up?
Alexei: Y… yes.
KGB: Judge?
Judge: Okay, you are sentenced to ten years in the Gulag.
KGB: Umm… Judge?
Judge: After the KGB have finished sweati… I mean, questioning you.
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That's a ****ing sad and pathetic post.

You feel that hypothetical interaction of characters from your imagination is evidence that the NYAG is engaged in criminal activity IRL?

I hope things improve.
GL
 
Simon W. Moon said:
That's a ****ing sad and pathetic post.

You feel that hypothetical interaction of characters from your imagination is evidence that the NYAG is engaged in criminal activity IRL?

I hope things improve.
GL
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The message from my skit is that in the same way there was no arguing with the KGB there is no arguing with you or you NYAGing. They are on a witch-hunt just as the KGB was. They place a pinch of reality with a smidgen of truth into a cauldron of Fake News, lies, exaggerations, hearsay, add some misinformation, trumped up false charges and mischievous allegations, and then serve it up as "the truth". I'm not interested in sifting through your cauldron of muck to find a smidgen of truth.
 
Rob Larrikin said:
The message from my skit is that in the same way there was no arguing with the KGB there is no arguing with you or you NYAGing. They are on a witch-hunt just as the KGB was. They place a pinch of reality with a smidgen of truth into a cauldron of Fake News, lies, exaggerations, hearsay, add some misinformation, trumped up false charges and mischievous allegations, and then serve it up as "the truth". I'm not interested in sifting through your cauldron of muck to find a smidgen of truth.
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You could just say that you have no evidence that the NYAG is engaged in the criminal activity you have accused them of.
:shrug:
 
Simon W. Moon said:
You could just say that you have no evidence that the NYAG is engaged in the criminal activity you have accused them of.
:shrug:
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Arguing about such things is giving them way too much time, especially considering that is exactly what they want, to waste our time on this. The Left are trying to derail Trump using every means at their disposal, however desperately, however transparently. They gave up trying to hide their witch-hunt long ago. They apparently don't mind that everyone can see them clearly. They want everyone to talk about "whether Trump is guilty" and people like you go around pushing people to do so. Trump is guilty of nothing so there is no need to discuss it. For all their mountains of accusations the Left have come up with nothing, and never will. The man is way too good for you.
 
This thread is an example of sound byte journalism, lack of knowledge of the issues, partisanship and so on.

After reading through this thread, I can guarantee no participant bothered to review the estate, foundation and trust laws of NYS. Had anyone done so, learning that that the first political contesting of these laws regarding the use of foundation and trusts by the NYAG's office goes back to Teddy Roosevelt's funding of his presidential run under the auspices of the Bull Moose Party. Thomas Dewey led the same battle against Teddy's cousin, FDR. The office also pursued Nelson Rockefeller. There were other cases against lesser offices and campaigns. Each of those cases were defeated in the courts.

The irony of these AG campaigns was and remains they are truly not about politics which has been a subterfuge for attacking a set of laws, and not just in NYS, which have allowed wealthy families to protect their fortunes, expand their wealth, while avoiding taxation. These are not philanthropic foundations and trusts, tho they may contribute relatively small sums to philanthropies. And foundations and trusts under our laws are not required to donate to philanthropies to earn the label "not for profit." They are supposedly not for profit, but they exist for the sole purpose of protecting and expanding wealth. The defense for each of these cases was made on the basis that political campaigns and their funding were not for profit, but public service and benefit the nation. No one spends millions, or a billion $ for a public service governmental position that pays a quarter million $'s annually, if a greater income has not been in the sights of those acting.

There's a set of reasons why the rest of the world recognizes the United States as the greatest Tax Haven the world has ever known. But no one here looks past their noses.
 
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