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independentusa

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The government is separating young children, young as 18 months, from their mothers at the border. These are not people who are coming into the country illegally through the border. These are people who have come to the border and turning themselves into the border agencies asking for asylum. The children are taken from their parent and sent to places far away. In one incident the mother is in Texas and the child is being kept in Minnesota. If the government wants to send the parent and child back, why separate the mother and child while a decision on asylum is being decided by the courts. Both will still be held in custody. And if the decision is made to send them back, that is up to the court. In court today when asked why this policy was being followed the government stated that it is being done to keep people from coming for asylum. So is it okay?
 
Link? (Not that I don’t trust you :D)
 
Doesn't sound like a good deal, I would avoid crossing any borders.
 
independentusa said:
The government is separating young children, young as 18 months, from their mothers at the border. These are not people who are coming into the country illegally through the border. These are people who have come to the border and turning themselves into the border agencies asking for asylum. The children are taken from their parent and sent to places far away. In one incident the mother is in Texas and the child is being kept in Minnesota. If the government wants to send the parent and child back, why separate the mother and child while a decision on asylum is being decided by the courts. Both will still be held in custody. And if the decision is made to send them back, that is up to the court. In court today when asked why this policy was being followed the government stated that it is being done to keep people from coming for asylum. So is it okay?
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No, it is not okay. It's loathsome. You should hear the stories of trauma it is causing. Pure evil.
 
YEAH I'M GOING TO NEED A LINK.

Also, sob stories are not the guideline to craft legal policy.
 
In essence the idea is that to make the parent really suffer enough to discourage this effort, you should attack the psyche of the child. Its not a lot different than recording the child crying for his mother, and playing it at night in the parents cell, over speaker system. First you have to get the kid to cry out. Not a moral or ethical dilemma for this administration.
 
Whom ever thought that Trump is not serious about what he has said over the years re human migration was wrong.
 
No, it's not okay. Reversing precedent that families would remain together in shelters whilst undergoing asylum or deportation proceedings is despicable.
 
Serenity said:
Here you go.
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This article is all over the place. It talks about illegal aliens, asylum seekers and unaccompanied children.

Questions:

1. If illegal aliens are apprehended and placed into custody (jailed), what should happen to their children?

2. Why would asylum seekers be separated from their children? The article wasn't clear about that...or if they even were separated.

3. If children arrived unaccompanied, didn't their parents already separate themselves?

In any case, perhaps people trying to come to the US should think about the consequences first, eh?
 
Mycroft said:
This article is all over the place. It talks about illegal aliens, asylum seekers and unaccompanied children.

Questions:

1. If illegal aliens are apprehended and placed into custody (jailed), what should happen to their children?

2. Why would asylum seekers be separated from their children? The article wasn't clear about that...or if they even were separated.

3. If children arrived unaccompanied, didn't their parents already separate themselves?
Click to expand...

I'm focusing on a response to the OP which refers to children specifically accompanied by their parents only which is mentioned in the article. That is what he asked for feedback on. Here's some more information.

US to stiffen border rules and separate children from parents

Under new policy, parents caught crossing border illegally will be separated from their children and criminally prosecuted. The Trump administration will increase criminal prosecutions of parents entering the United States illegally and place their children in protective custody as part of efforts to tighten immigration enforcement, according to a Department of Homeland Security (DHS) official.

“Those apprehended will be sent directly to federal court under the custody of the US Marshals Service, and their children will be transferred to the custody of Health and Human Services’ Office of Refugee Resettlement,” the DHS official said in an email. The policy, which the official said was signed on Friday, formalizes plans that have been under discussion for more than a year.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/may/07/us-border-rules-prosecutions-parents-families
Click to expand...
 
independentusa said:
The government is separating young children, young as 18 months, from their mothers at the border. These are not people who are coming into the country illegally through the border. These are people who have come to the border and turning themselves into the border agencies asking for asylum. The children are taken from their parent and sent to places far away. In one incident the mother is in Texas and the child is being kept in Minnesota. If the government wants to send the parent and child back, why separate the mother and child while a decision on asylum is being decided by the courts. Both will still be held in custody. And if the decision is made to send them back, that is up to the court. In court today when asked why this policy was being followed the government stated that it is being done to keep people from coming for asylum. So is it okay?
Click to expand...

Fine with me. Because a high number of those who apply for asylum are eventually denied, statistically, within the number of applicants are those who fully intend to deceive. That means those mothers must be detained in order to ascertain if they are telling the truth -- and there is no good reason to allow an innocent child to be included in that detention. We don't allow women to bring their children to prison, do we?

No, the child is better off in foster care until a decision is made about the mother's status. At that time, the child will be returned, and the two will be granted asylum, or they will be deported.
 
no, it's not ok to separate kids from their parents, especially as a deterrent. i'm also not really cool with the whole "deport brown people because Republicans are eskeered and don't understand that technology is more likely to replace them than Central Americans" thing in general.
 
Serenity said:
Here you go.
Click to expand...

Link gave one specific example. Guy was arrested after crossing the border, then his son was place in temporary care. The rest is still unclear. May be they are using this as a deterrent. Who knows? Migrants who travel to, and across, the border, have a pretty good idea this can happen. When they are being placed in custody due by their own doing, why should the children go to jail because the parent (s) broke the law?
CNBC did a grand job tugging on some emotional strings. Lets find out more.
 
Helix said:
no, it's not ok to separate kids from their parents, especially as a deterrent. i'm also not really cool with the whole "deport brown people because Republicans are eskeered and don't understand that technology is more likely to replace them than Central Americans" thing in general.
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Nice try turning this into a race issue. People from south of our border happen to be brown. Do we fault Repubs for that, or can we assume that fact? People from south of our border cross illegally. They are arrested because they are breaking the law. Anything else are assumptions and propaganda.
 
Should people who have children never be sentenced to prison or jail because it “separates families”?
 
Lovebug said:
Nice try turning this into a race issue. People from south of our border happen to be brown. Do we fault Repubs for that, or can we assume that fact? People from south of our border cross illegally. They are arrested because they are breaking the law. Anything else are assumptions and propaganda.
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eh, most of our ancestors crossed a border without asking, and then took hell for it after making a trip that few of us could endure. then they had to the do hard work that the people who were already here didn't want to do. some were indentured servants, some were slaves, some were attacked, and some were killed. all of their kids had to fight to be considered equals, too. our current immigration laws have roots in discrimination against Chinese immigrants (after they helped us to build the railroads.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act

you'll forgive me if, as a son of immigrants, i don't have much of a taste for kicking out the current wave.
 
Serenity said:
I'm focusing on a response to the OP which refers to children specifically accompanied by their parents only which is mentioned in the article. That is what he asked for feedback on. Here's some more information.
Click to expand...

this says it all.

"Under new policy, parents caught crossing border illegally will be separated from their children and criminally prosecuted."

If you don't want to be separated from your child don't break our laws. We are under no obligation to shelter these people or keep their families together.

Don't do the crime of you can't do the time.
 
Helix said:
no, it's not ok to separate kids from their parents,
Click to expand...
So children should be locked up with their parents? That's cold blooded.

especially as a deterrent. i'm also not really cool with the whole "deport brown people because Republicans are eskeered and don't understand that technology is more likely to replace them than Central Americans" thing in general.
Click to expand...

Not being cool with fiction is irrelevant.
 
Helix said:
eh, most of our ancestors crossed a border without asking, and then took hell for it after making a trip that few of us could endure. then they had to the do hard work that the people who were already here didn't want to do. some were indentured servants, some were slaves, some were attacked, and some were killed. all of their kids had to fight to be considered equals, too. our current immigration laws have roots in discrimination against Chinese immigrants (after they helped us to build the railroads.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act

you'll forgive me if, as a son of immigrants, i don't have much of a taste for kicking out the current wave.
Click to expand...

Guess what? I live on the border and it isn’t just Republicans who support law enforcement. The majority of immigration officials, here, are of Mexican American heritage. Most of my friends in law enforcement are as well and will actually arrest Mexicans who break criminal laws. My mom came here from another country as well. I have good friend who’s wonderful wife is going through the long process of becoming a citizen the legal way. When did it become ok in your mind to assume and accuse everyone you disagree of being racist? You weren’t ever like that before.
 
X Factor (before bothering to look for information) said:
Link? (Not that I don’t trust you :D)
Click to expand...

WarmPotato (before bothering to look for information) said:
YEAH I'M GOING TO NEED A LINK.
Click to expand...


Lovebug (before bothering to look and AFTER some information had been explicitly provided) said:
Yes, it would be nice to have some background, some context to this.
Click to expand...

While the OP should have provided a source, these responses strike me as little more than deliberate ignorance. It's not like this is some far-fetched conspiracy theory; Trump explicitly ran on a hard-line immigration platform and is also on record (in a different context) as saying that "you have to go after the families."

I literally just copied and pasted the first sentence of the OP and added US, and the second result was the New York Times headline Hundreds of Immigrant Children Have Been Taken From Parents at U.S. Border, dated April 20th of this year. That's not exactly difficult, probing research that you need someone else to do for you, especially on a topic which is 100% in line with what one would already expect from the current administration!

The most plausible conclusion, to my mind, is that the people 'asking for evidence' would really prefer not to find out.


On Feb. 20, a young woman named Mirian arrived at the Texas border carrying her 18-month-old son. They had fled their home in Honduras through a cloud of tear gas, she told border agents, and needed protection from the political violence there.

She had hoped she and her son would find refuge together. Instead, the agents ordered her to place her son in the back seat of a government vehicle, she said later in a sworn declaration to a federal court. They both cried as the boy was driven away.

For months, members of Congress have been demanding answers about how many families are being separated as they are processed at stations along the southwest border, in part because the Trump administration has in the past said it was considering taking children from their parents as a way to deter migrants from coming here.

Officials have repeatedly declined to provide data on how many families have been separated, but suggested that the number was relatively low.

But new data reviewed by The New York Times shows that more than 700 children have been taken from adults claiming to be their parents since October, including more than 100 children under the age of 4.​
 
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WarmPotato said:
YEAH I'M GOING TO NEED A LINK.

Also, sob stories are not the guideline to craft legal policy.
Click to expand...

No but some Common Sense might be nice.
Agree on needing a link.
 
Helix said:
eh, most of our ancestors crossed a border without asking, and then took hell for it after making a trip that few of us could endure. then they had to the do hard work that the people who were already here didn't want to do. some were indentured servants, some were slaves, some were attacked, and some were killed. all of their kids had to fight to be considered equals, too. our current immigration laws have roots in discrimination against Chinese immigrants (after they helped us to build the railroads.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act

you'll forgive me if, as a son of immigrants, i don't have much of a taste for kicking out the current wave.
Click to expand...

We did ride on horse and buggy at one time too. Remember the rotary phone? What's wrong with drawing a clear cut line and improve on the past? Obey laws, ask to enter, be transparent and employable so you don't have to hide in the shadows and be abused and/or have your kids taken away for some gamble you took. If our laws are no good, lets change them, but don't use them, or break them, to your convenience. Of course YOU in general terms.
 
CLAX1911 said:
So children should be locked up with their parents? That's cold blooded.



Not being cool with fiction is irrelevant.
Click to expand...

your post is worthy of this response.
 
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