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Kim wants to know if the White House will reconsider

jnug said:
As it is KJU has tossed the ball right back into Trump's court. If anything its likely Trump/Pompeo/Bolton that were not expecting to see the ball come back that quickly.

We have to remember that for Moon and KJU to get where they want to go, will still require the signature of a US President.
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That.

And I don't expect any deal between Moon and KJU anytime soon.
 
hanger4 said:
Wut ??
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If the penninsula normalizes, the USA is no longer needed, but the USA wants the USA military and weapons in S. Korea to threaten and surround China. Unification works against USA policies that have been in place for 65-70 years.
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jnug said:
As it is KJU has tossed the ball right back into Trump's court. If anything its likely Trump/Pompeo/Bolton that were not expecting to see the ball come back that quickly.

We have to remember that for Moon and KJU to get where they want to go, will still require the signature of a US President.
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WHY? Can't S. Korea speak for itself?
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Winston said:
Well, they have to give up their nukes. They don't get "protection" and "prosperity" if they don't give up their nukes, isn't that the deal?
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True, but it is also good that KJU is coming out of his cave. This guy is nothing but ego, and he wants it stroked, openly, for the world to see. I could be wrong, none of us know for sure.
 
DaveFagan said:
If the penninsula normalizes, the USA is no longer needed, but the USA wants the USA military and weapons in S. Korea to threaten and surround China. Unification works against USA policies that have been in place for 65-70 years.
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What makes you think Korean unification eliminates a US military presents on the penninsula ??
 
Barnacle said:
I think more because China told Kim what to say/do ... but it didn't quite pan out the way they were hoping for. (grin)
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I don't know if this is true or not, I lean that it is probably true, and if so, Trump did a great thing by walking away because he helps put a wedge between North Korea and China. I think the USA has an opportunity to steal North Korea from China as an ally. China has done all they can do for North Korea in the past, and that has not helped North Korea become prosperous. The USA has helped many countries become prosperous, most notably in Asia, South Korea and Japan. If I was Kim Jong-un, I'd be wondering if I really want to be a poor ally of China or a rich ally of the USA.
 
Lovebug said:
True, but it is also good that KJU is coming out of his cave. This guy is nothing but ego, and he wants it stroked, openly, for the world to see. I could be wrong, none of us know for sure.
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No. You are right. Trump definitely needs his ego stroke. His every move telegraphs that yearning obsession.
And y'all give it to him.

Enablers.
 
I think on some level China/NK is playing Trump on this. They made his pullout look like the reason these talks wouldn't go forward and that they are the ones willing to strive for a solution.

But despite Trump's abrupt cancellation, he appeared to leave the door open for talks to resume at some point, telling reporters Thursday that "if and when Kim Jong Un chooses to engage in constructive dialogue and actions, I am waiting."
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I don't really know what their end game they envision looks like, and I wouldn't trust NK in the least. Hopefully SK and NK can have productive talks and we'll see if America is part of it or not.
 
it is clear that NK is not going to denuclearize at least as Bolton/ Trump were describing it. Again, as he always does, Trump expects a negotiating partner to give up their most prized piece before the negotiation even starts. Then the very first public comment Trump made after Kim's comment agreeing to the "goal of denuclearization" was that KJU had agreed to denuclearize. That is not nearly what KJU had said and while the Bolton/Pence statements poisoned the water, that single Trump statement oft repeated by Trump in the weeks after really poisoned the water and made it virtually impossible that this particular summit meeting would come off on the timeline that Trump wanted.

Nothing about this is going to be fast or easy and no, KJU will not give a rats behind about having Americans running around his country like an ant infestation. KJU wants S.Koreans and people from neighboring China running around his country if he wants anybody. So Trumps public bargaining chips of American aid and even more laughable protection for KJU are simply not going to buy Trump anything. Kim will offer back that if Trump wants to "send" him buckets of money fine. But that is all he will accept in regard to aid.

Reports this morning are as I suggested they would be. China is going to loosen the grip of the sanctions coalition however strong that grip might be at this point. Sanctions only work for so long and then even the staunch participants get tired of them.

At any rate, whatever gets Bolton to shut his big mouth would be helpful and whatever gets Trump to stop trying to set parameters in the media would be helpful. I suspect the only guy we have at this point in this stripped down State Dept that can talk without tripping over his tongue is Pompeo.

If I had to guess, the whole process starts again as Trump poisoned the water around this early summit so much that Kim and Moon and Xi and even Abe will want to wash that stench completely out. Even the very last strokes we took in this particular episode were stupid and insulting as we did not even bother to give Moon the tiniest bit of a heads up that we were sending that letter to KJU. Maybe a summit later this year or early next if I had to guess assuming that we don't trip over ourselves to screw it up again.

Sorry Don Jr, "the art of the [REAL ESTATE] deal baby" isn't where this is dummy.
 
hanger4 said:
What makes you think Korean unification eliminates a US military presents on the penninsula ??
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Because they would no longer be needed for protection. If they stay uninvited, they are occupiers, bringing condemnation from the world.

But hey, keep saying yay, Trump, it's exactly what China is hoping for. The game could already be over, you guys just haven't gotten the memo yet...hehe...
 
OlNate said:
Because they would no longer be needed for protection. If they stay uninvited, they are occupiers, bringing condemnation from the world.

But hey, keep saying yay, Trump, it's exactly what China is hoping for. The game could already be over, you guys just haven't gotten the memo yet...hehe...
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The absolute last thing Xi wants is a unified, democratic Korea right on his border. He does not want that. KJU would not survive that. Even Moon would fear that because he knows the peninsula would not be ready for that. Moon and KJU want this war to end finally. You have to do that before you can even begin to discuss a unified peninsula. I would not put the odds of a unified Korean peninsula at better than 40% at any time, even 25 years from now and I would put the odds at 0% for any time in the next two decades.
 
OlNate said:
Because they would no longer be needed for protection. If they stay uninvited, they are occupiers, bringing condemnation from the world.

But hey, keep saying yay, Trump, it's exactly what China is hoping for. The game could already be over, you guys just haven't gotten the memo yet...hehe...
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Why do you think a US military presents would be uninvited ??
 
jnug said:
The absolute last thing Xi wants is a unified, democratic Korea right on his border. He does not want that. KJU would not survive that. Even Moon would fear that because he knows the peninsula would not be ready for that. Moon and KJU want this war to end finally. You have to do that before you can even begin to discuss a unified peninsula. I would not put the odds of a unified Korean peninsula at better than 40% at any time, even 25 years from now and I would put the odds at 0% for any time in the next two decades.
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Long games are long...I don't disagree... Or they could be fast forwarding things...as has been said many times, China has never had an easier American pres to manipulate. I don't think you can take anything for granted at the moment, and things sure seem to be lining up in a particular direction. China is South (yes South) Korea's biggest trading partner by far...and wars are most likely to be fought on the economic front in the future.

Combine that with the fact that everyone is generally annoyed with America at the moment, and you can see how Korean War 2 will look more like a hostile takeover on Wall street than the Battle of Heartbreak Ridge. Perhaps the truce will be dependent upon South Korea asking America to leave. What if South Korea says yes? So much up in the air at the moment.
 
hanger4 said:
Why do you think a US military presents would be uninvited ??
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Because China is heading up this deal. Possible Nobel Peace prize nominations notwithstanding... hehe
 
OlNate said:
Because China is heading up this deal. Possible Nobel Peace prize nominations notwithstanding... hehe
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Based on what ??

I have no doubt China is allowed input with all three concerned sides, but "heading up" ??
 
hanger4 said:
Based on what ??

I have no doubt China is allowed input with all three concerned sides, but "heading up" ??
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Based on the fact that KJU don't scratch his balls without written permission in triplicate from China, and the fact that during the time period where this agreement was negotiated Trump was in zero position to assist in a peace process, because he was too busy jerking himself off with "Rocket Man" and "My button's bigger than yours" tweets.
 
Trump is a wuss, and a coward, with an ego bigger then that of Kim Jong-U. What choice did he have?

Trump's Art of the Deal ghostwriter explains why Trump's big North Korea deal went south

There was a lot of speculation as to why President Trump abruptly pulled out of a June 12 summit with North Korea's Kim Jong Un that he had agreed to attend and was evidently excited about. Tony Schwartz, a Trump critic who shadowed the real estate developer for a year in the 1980s to ghostwrite Trump's bestseller The Art of the Deal, had a theory. "Trump has a morbid fear of being humiliated and shamed," Schwartz told The Washington Post on Thursday. The summit was all about "showing who’s the biggest and the strongest, so he is exquisitely sensitive to the possibility that he would end up looking weak and small. There is nothing more unacceptable to Trump than that." Schwartz elaborated on Twitter:

To be clear: Trump is a terrible negotiator. Whether it's North Korea, or China over trade, or Mexico over the wall, he's guided by impulse, does no preparation, is incapable of listening, and gives away the store in return for short-term ego gratification.

— Tony Schwartz (@tonyschwartz) May 25, 2018
 
Myself I would really like to see MSM give it a break too. Hanging on and parsing every word and phrase helps nothing. It just encourages behavior by both Trump and KJU that is simply not productive. If I were talking directly to MSM execs I would ask them if they really thought they should be proud of their behavior here. For the 24/7's, try going dead air for a few hours a night. You might find that with less hours to fill what you fill them with naturally becomes of higher value.
 
Barnacle said:
I think more because China told Kim what to say/do ... but it didn't quite pan out the way they were hoping for. (grin)
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When it comes to negotiating, President Trump wrote the book. Little Kimmie's idea of negotiating is to feed naysayers to the dogs. My money is on President Trump.
 
OlNate said:
Based on the fact that KJU don't scratch his balls without written permission in triplicate from China, and the fact that during the time period where this agreement was negotiated Trump was in zero position to assist in a peace process, because he was too busy jerking himself off with "Rocket Man" and "My button's bigger than yours" tweets.
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OK, based on some sort of sexual perversions you perceive. :thumbs:
 
In fact, now that I think about it, before the 24/7 Cable News Networks nobody would have given a rats behind about Bolton opening his big stupid mouth. The National Security Advisor to the President is just that the National Security Advisor to the President. His job is to advise the President and then shut up. His job is not to anoint himself yet another voice of the WH.
 
hanger4 said:
What makes you think Korean unification eliminates a US military presents on the penninsula ??
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Like Germany and Japan, we have occupied S. Korea since WWII. The excuse for occupation has been a belligerent N. Korea, right or wrong. The USA wants to stay there and needs a belligerent N. Korea for an excuse. If Koreans ever have a choice in the matter, they will ask us to leave.
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