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The Coming Collapse

Dittohead not! said:
[h=1]The Coming Collapse[/h]



(bold added)

Lest you think this is some sort of anti Trump, partisan rant:




I'm beginning to grasp it, though, aren't you?



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Interesting. Would the election have turned had Sanders run an independent ticket? May be not, but it would have brought much needed awareness that we need more than 2 major parties, so that we the citizens aren't taken for granted.
 
Dittohead not! said:
[h=1]The Coming Collapse[/h]



(bold added)

Lest you think this is some sort of anti Trump, partisan rant:




I'm beginning to grasp it, though, aren't you?



[/FONT][/COLOR]
Click to expand...

This is plenty of democracy at the state (depending on what state you live in, perhaps) and local levels where those not preoccupied, like us, with the national scene give their attention and energies. The national hope is ultimately with them.
 
AlbqOwl said:
There is very strong and credible evident that high ranking individuals in the DOJ and FBI have been behaving in authoritarian ways that are not only illegal, but unconstitutional. Neither agency should be declared omnipotent or beyond criticism and/or oversight by both the President and Congress. The people of the USA are constitutionally recognized as the ultimate power. To assume any government entity is as pure as the driven snow and therefore cannot be scrutinized, questioned, or called to account is a very VERY dangerous position to take.
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No there isn't, just a president attempting to obfuscate and obstruct. There is really no evidence, though there is mounting evidence of corruption against Trump, who knows where it will go.....
 
beancounter said:
That's the problem though. People who own/run corporations effectively have double rights. They have their own rights as individuals, plus the rights provided by the "power of the purse" of their corporation.

And that gives them undo influence in politics.

and a little OT, but related - Incorporating effectively let's people get away with murder because they can hide behind the corporate veil and legally claim "I didn't dump the toxic waste in the river, the corporation did it.

Further the courts only lift the corporate veil when wealthy people are impacted. That's why Madoff went to jail for his Ponzi scheme, but Trump didn't go to jail for his "university".
The difference? Madoff was cheating the one percent, Trump was cheating the poor.
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And we knew well about that long before the electon, I'm sure Trumplings have excuses, and it's all failings in the "personal responsibility" of those he cheated, no fault on Trump's part.....

That is most of what's wrong with the government and 99% of the problem with the judicial branch, EVERYONE has a hand in the till....
 
Lovebug said:
Interesting. Would the election have turned had Sanders run an independent ticket? May be not, but it would have brought much needed awareness that we need more than 2 major parties, so that we the citizens aren't taken for granted.
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So long as the House of Representatives is elected by single member districts we will have a two-party system. Simple arithmetic.
 
Jack Hays said:
So long as the House of Representatives is elected by single member districts we will have a two-party system. Simple arithmetic.
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FYI Canada, and the UK have single member districts, yet have a multiparty system. It is not simple arithmetic. Something other than that is causing a two party system in the US to remain as the status quo
 
OscarLevant said:
The last person I would trust to arbitrate what is, and what is not, constitutional is Donald Trump

Name one president who decreed "I hereby demand" to the DOJ ?

Many of the "shackles" Trump has removed, this is just a partial list:
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Any given action of any President is subject to scrutiny and comment and/or criticism, but the fact that you don't like what he does is no evidence whatsoever that he is being authoritarian and/or unconstitutional. Whether or not any of your assigned list is true and/or accurately represented, you did not list a single thing that is unconstitutional or outside the constitutional authority given the President.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
FYI Canada, and the UK have single member districts, yet have a multiparty system. It is not simple arithmetic. Something other than that is causing a two party system in the US to remain as the status quo
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Little regulation of political bribery donations and advertising, vastly disadvantaging smaller parties?
First past the post system, ensuring votes for a third party are 'wasted'?
Lack of compulsory voting, encouraging the shrillest rhetoric and demonization of the 'other side' just to motivate fairly clearly-defined bases to get off their bases and come vote?
 
Mycroft said:
Trump is the start of the resistance to this collapse.

As he said...drain the swamp.
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Cohen's pockets are full of millions from corporations.
Kushner got loans from Qataris he's involved with in foreign policy negotiations.
Trump is profiting from his presidency.

I've basically accepted that you're a Trump cult member and are incapable of realizing how crazy it is to think that Trump is draining the swamp.
 
Dittohead not! said:
[h=1]The Coming Collapse[/h]



(bold added)

Lest you think this is some sort of anti Trump, partisan rant:




I'm beginning to grasp it, though, aren't you?



[/FONT][/COLOR]
Click to expand...

Well right off the bat, your link claims as a fact, monopolies on left theory by Marxism and on democratic theory by liberalism, Wolin developed a distinctive — even distinctively American — analysis of the political present and of radical democratic possibilities. Bullcrap.

If anything, one could much more easily see the coming collapse if there is one in the near future, is the right's love for authoritarianism. (fascism) I say so, so it's true.

See how easy it is ? In fact the repubs were the progressives for 70-80 years until FDR and since, became the corporatists and much more likely the neoliberals on economics.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
FYI Canada, and the UK have single member districts, yet have a multiparty system. It is not simple arithmetic. Something other than that is causing a two party system in the US to remain as the status quo
Click to expand...

inertia
 
markjs said:
No there isn't, just a president attempting to obfuscate and obstruct. There is really no evidence, though there is mounting evidence of corruption against Trump, who knows where it will go.....
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I'll go with what is already out there. Comey fired at the recommendation of Rod Rosenstein (who I suspect may have wanted Comey out of the reach of the Inspector General.) McCabe gone for cause. James Rybick Chief of Staff of FBI director resigns under fire, Bruce Ohr demoted, James Baker reassigned, Peter Strzok and Lisa Page removed from Mueller team for extreme bias exposed and demoted. There are others.

As for as mounting evidence of corruption, collusion, or anything else against Trump, who is the mole who told you that? Certainly nobody else knows about it.
 
AlbqOwl said:
I'll go with what is already out there. Comey fired at the recommendation of Rod Rosenstein (who I suspect may have wanted Comey out of the reach of the Inspector General.) McCabe gone for cause. James Rybick Chief of Staff of FBI director resigns under fire, Bruce Ohr demoted, James Baker reassigned, Peter Strzok and Lisa Page removed from Mueller team for extreme bias exposed and demoted. There are others.

As for as mounting evidence of corruption, collusion, or anything else against Trump, who is the mole who told you that? Certainly nobody else knows about it.
Click to expand...

Except Trump asked Rosenstein for that letter. Rosenstein did not proffer it as a request or even a recommendation by Rod or the Justice Dept. Had Rod proffered the letter you could legitimately state that the Justice Dept was making a formal comment or recommendation to the President.
 
SonOfDaedalus said:
Cohen's pockets are full of millions from corporations.
Kushner got loans from Qataris he's involved with in foreign policy negotiations.
Trump is profiting from his presidency.

I've basically accepted that you're a Trump cult member and are incapable of realizing how crazy it is to think that Trump is draining the swamp.
Click to expand...

Cohen is irrelevant.

Show me any evidence that Kushner is involved in pay for play.

Show me any evidence that Trump is basing his policy decisions on any possible benefit to his business.

If you can't do that, then all you have is useless speculation. (and an anti-Trump bias)
 
Dittohead not! said:
I'm beginning to grasp it, though, aren't you?
Click to expand...

Yes, Bernie Sanders will be our next president.

I think the world is just going through a change. The world is becoming more diverse, global and interconnected. Automation is also going to play a major role.

These changes are going to upset a lot of people but nothing can stop these forces. At the same time corporations will become more and more powerful as they become global institutions. There will then be a growing backlash against the growth of corporate power.

So, I see people like Bernie Sanders, Social Democrats, becoming the norm. Conservatism and small government are dead. The future is big government doling out basic income to keep the unemployed masses from rioting.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
FYI Canada, and the UK have single member districts, yet have a multiparty system. It is not simple arithmetic. Something other than that is causing a two party system in the US to remain as the status quo
Click to expand...

Nonetheless, single member districts powerfully incentivize the broad coalitions usually expressed in two parties. I suggest that factors unique to both the UK and Canada explain their outlier results.
 
Mithrae said:
Little regulation of political bribery donations and advertising, vastly disadvantaging smaller parties?
First past the post system, ensuring votes for a third party are 'wasted'?
Lack of compulsory voting, encouraging the shrillest rhetoric and demonization of the 'other side' just to motivate fairly clearly-defined bases to get off their bases and come vote?
Click to expand...

First past the post, lack of compulsory voting are both parts of the Canadian and UK systems

Canada has 2 major parties, 1 mid level national party and one regional party of importance that have all gotten seats in government (ignoring the green party with just one seat)

The UK has 2 major party, (Labour and Conservative) with another midlevel (liberal) and some others like the UKIP.

What is different is that at least Canadians not register with the government which party they "belong" to. Whether or not that is a factor I do not know
 
Mycroft said:
Cohen is irrelevant.

Show me any evidence that Kushner is involved in pay for play.

Show me any evidence that Trump is basing his policy decisions on any possible benefit to his business.

If you can't do that, then all you have is useless speculation. (and an anti-Trump bias)
Click to expand...

How is Cohen irrelevant? He's Trump's personal lawyer. He claimed to be Trump's personal fixer. He handled Trump's secret hush money payments. He's basically Trump's right-hand man.

Evidence of Kushner pay-to-play?

Jared Kushner just got implicated in bombshell Trump-Cohen pay-for-play scandal

THE KUSHNERS ARE FINALLY GETTING THAT SWEET, SWEET QATARI CASH

The only reason Kushner is not going to jail is because Republicans are protecting him.

Next will come "Kushner is irrelevant. Don Jr is irrelevant."

Trump is surrounded by Manafort and Cohen, people who are going to prison, and you still believe Trump is innocent. Classic cult leader worship.
 
AlbqOwl said:
I'll go with what is already out there. Comey fired at the recommendation of Rod Rosenstein (who I suspect may have wanted Comey out of the reach of the Inspector General.) McCabe gone for cause. James Rybick Chief of Staff of FBI director resigns under fire, Bruce Ohr demoted, James Baker reassigned, Peter Strzok and Lisa Page removed from Mueller team for extreme bias exposed and demoted. There are others.

As for as mounting evidence of corruption, collusion, or anything else against Trump, who is the mole who told you that? Certainly nobody else knows about it.
Click to expand...

There would have to be a motive for a "deep state conspiracy" there isn't, the evidence is totally circumstantial. Trump is no different than any other president in that way, regardless of being an "outsider" to politics.
 
jnug said:
Except Trump asked Rosenstein for that letter. Rosenstein did not proffer it as a request or even a recommendation by Rod or the Justice Dept. Had Rod proffered the letter you could legitimately state that the Justice Dept was making a formal comment or recommendation to the President.
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You have evidence of that of course? No? Imagine that.

But even if he did ask Rosenstein to send the letter, it was perfectly within his prerogative as President of the United States. Comey, Rosenstein, Sessions, et al all serve at the pleasure of the President. They are all subordinate to him and to the Congress as the representatives of the people. They are not little gods who are untouchable by anybody. At least they have never been until now. And if the FBI or DOJ is given license to bring down the lawfully elected representatives of the people, we are no longer a constitutional republic. We are now under a new shadow government accomplished by coup that can do anything to anybody with impunity.
 
markjs said:
There would have to be a motive for a "deep state conspiracy" there isn't, the evidence is totally circumstantial. Trump is no different than any other president in that way, regardless of being an "outsider" to politics.
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Trump is no partisan. He is no ideologue. He is not part of the permanent political class. The deep state is all three in varying degrees. Somebody like Trump who comes in with the intention of making government work for the people instead of for that deep state/permanent political class is very very dangerous to them. So those belonging to that class regardless of political party or what bureaucracy they have had free license to control are determined to destroy him and put somebody like Hillary who won't interfere with them back in there.
 
AlbqOwl said:
Trump is no partisan. He is no ideologue. He is not part of the permanent political class. The deep state is all three in varying degrees. Somebody like Trump who comes in with the intention of making government work for the people instead of for that deep state/permanent political class is very very dangerous to them. So those belonging to that class regardless of political party or what bureaucracy they have had free license to control are determined to destroy him and put somebody like Hillary who won't interfere with them back in there.
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M'kay....

:cool::2rofll:
 
AlbqOwl said:
But even if he did ask Rosenstein to send the letter, it was perfectly within his prerogative as President of the United States.
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Not if it violated the law.
They are all subordinate to him and to the Congress as the representatives of the people.
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Who are all subordinated to the people, and the law.

They are not little gods who are untouchable by anybody.
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No one claimed they were, or thinks they are, so why did you write that? "little gods"?

And if the FBI or DOJ is given license to bring down the lawfully elected representatives of the people, we are no longer a constitutional republic. We are now under a new shadow government accomplished by coup that can do anything to anybody with impunity.
Click to expand...

So you believe the president is above the law. You really don't see how that's insane and [insert a hundred different bad adjectives]?

If they break the law, they could get into trouble.
If Trumps' team broke the law, the could get into trouble.
If you or I break the law, we may be in trouble.
etc.

Why are you excluding the president?
 
Mach said:
Not if it violated the law.

Who are all subordinated to the people, and the law.


No one claimed they were, or thinks they are, so why did you write that? "little gods"?



So you believe the president is above the law. You really don't see how that's insane and [insert a hundred different bad adjectives]?

If they break the law, they could get into trouble.
If Trumps' team broke the law, the could get into trouble.
If you or I break the law, we may be in trouble.
etc.

Why are you excluding the president?
Click to expand...

I don't respond to chopped up posts. Have a good day.
 
AlbqOwl said:
I'll go with what is already out there. Comey fired at the recommendation of Rod Rosenstein (who I suspect may have wanted Comey out of the reach of the Inspector General.) McCabe gone for cause. James Rybick Chief of Staff of FBI director resigns under fire, Bruce Ohr demoted, James Baker reassigned, Peter Strzok and Lisa Page removed from Mueller team for extreme bias exposed and demoted. There are others.

As for as mounting evidence of corruption, collusion, or anything else against Trump, who is the mole who told you that? Certainly nobody else knows about it.
Click to expand...

List for list.

Trump's televised invitation to Russia, his older son's meetings with Russians, his campaign officials meetings with Russians, the sudden, unexplained pro Russian change in the Republican platform, Trump's laughing comment to the Russian ambassador that with the firing of Comey, "the pressure is off", the resistance to acknowledging Russian interference in the election and the pro-Trump interference itself may or not be part of your "mounting evidence of...collusion." Then there is the Russian connection to Carter Page and Papadopoulos, and whatever other goodies Mueller has been and is gathering.

Correction to your list: Trump told us why he fired Comey and it wasn't because Rosenstein recommended it.

p.s. Here's how to solve great "The Deep State" problem you people never knew about until Trump ran for President: eliminate the Civil Service System and return to
institutional cronyism.
 
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