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Two men exonerated in 1991 rape claim

TheGoverness

TheGoverness

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Article Here.


After 26 years, two men have been exonerated of a gang-rape that the alleged victim now admits never happened.

The 1992 convictions of VanDyke Perry and Gregory Counts for rape, sodomy and kidnapping were vacated in New York court Monday. Prosecutors had joined attorneys for Perry and Counts on a motion asking a State Supreme Court judge in Manhattan to vacate the convictions because of new DNA evidence and the woman's revised story.

"It is every prosecutor’s nightmare to convict an innocent person," Manhattan District Attorney Cyrus R. Vance, Jr. said in a statement. "This case is a tragedy for all involved — two New Yorkers were wrongfully deprived of their liberty during the prime of their lives for a crime they did not commit. This time can never be returned to them, but with today’s exoneration, we hope we can begin the process of unburdening them and giving them a chance at a brighter, successful future."

Perry was 21 and Counts 19 at the time of their arrests in 1991. Perry was released in 2001 after 11 years in prison and Counts was released in August 2017 after 26 years. A third alleged attacker was never arrested.

The alleged victim said she was forced into a vehicle at knifepoint near a subway station in Queens. She said Perry and Counts — whom she already knew and who dealt drugs with her boyfriend — raped her along with a third man multiple times in the car and in Central Park when she refused to tell them where her boyfriend was.

According to The New York Times, she said they punched her so hard her eye swelled, but a doctor who examined found no physical evidence to support her claim and that there were no signs of sexual trauma.

Semen was found in the woman's underwear, which she said she put back on after the rape, but DNA testing excluded both Perry and Counts as the source. After that result, the woman said she had unprotected sex with her boyfriend the night before and the morning of the attack. Prosecutors argued in court the semen in her underwear belonged to the boyfriend although his DNA was never tested.

In addition, the car in which the woman said the rape occurred was never searched.
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This story came out a few weeks ago, but it's still very relevant to talk about. This story pisses me off to no end. I cannot believe that these two were convicted of this, I think it was just a case of "Oh, it's two black men, so those thugs probably did it". The doctor examination showed that she had no injuries to what she had claimed she had gotten from them. Nor did they search the ****ing car she claimed she got raped in. Like, what the absolute ****. This whole case is just horrible beyond belief. **** that woman for lying about rape, because not only are you making it harder for actual rape victims to come out with there experiences, you ****ing destroyed those men's lives, and took 26 good years away from them. And that DA can shove it. It is not a tragedy for all involved. It is a tragedy for the two lives that were ruined because of your former client's lies.
 
TheGoverness said:
Article Here.




This story came out a few weeks ago, but it's still very relevant to talk about. This story pisses me off to no end. I cannot believe that these two were convicted of this, I think it was just a case of "Oh, it's two black men, so those thugs probably did it". The doctor examination showed that she had no injuries to what she had claimed she had gotten from them. Nor did they search the ****ing car she claimed she got raped in. Like, what the absolute ****. This whole case is just horrible beyond belief. **** that woman for lying about rape, because not only are you making it harder for actual rape victims to come out with there experiences, you ****ing destroyed those men's lives, and took 26 good years away from them. And that DA can shove it. It is not a tragedy for all involved. It is a tragedy for the two lives that were ruined because of your former client's lies.
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Under these circumstances, I deeply believe that we as citizens owe these two men the only thing we can give them at this point... a hell of a lot of money. What is 26 years worth in cash? I don't know, but it should be a hell of a lot.

The state of NY has to do the right thing here, regardless of sovereign immunity. Also, the woman that perjured herself should be sentenced to an equal amount of time in jail that she cost these men with her lies.

Let us know if you hear anything else about these two guys and what, if anything, the state does for them.
 
Beaudreaux said:
Under these circumstances, I deeply believe that we as citizens owe these two men the only thing we can give them at this point... a hell of a lot of money. What is 26 years worth in cash? I don't know, but it should be a hell of a lot.
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I hope they get millions. Because what was done to them was a serious miscarriage of justice.

The state of NY has to do the right thing here, regardless of sovereign immunity. Also, the woman that perjured herself should be sentenced to an equal amount of time in jail that she cost these men with her lies.
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They said the statute of limitations is past, but I still think this woman should have to face some kind of legal repercussion. That goes for all who've made false accusations of this nature. She shouldn't get to get off scott-free. And that's the problem with a lot of these cases where people have been falsely accused of rape/sexual assault. I remember one case back a few years, where someone had been accused of rape, and got convicted for it. Their mother was so distraught, that she committed suicide. And then later the girl admitted that she was never raped. She destroyed a family, but she didn't have to face any legal repercussions for what she did, which she absolutely should have.

Let us know if you hear anything else about these two guys and what, if anything, the state does for them.
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I will.
 
There are myriad cases of prosecution and conviction based on little more than an emotional response to a currently trending social topic. We've seen "witch hunts" involving rape, child abuse, racism, homophobia, political ideology and tons of other stuff. Our legal system is supposed to weed out the cases where the complaints aren't substantiated but DAs looking for a political boost can go off the rails. It's not easy for a guy or girl just making ends meet to put up a defense capable of overcoming a DA who is willing to put the full resources of his office into making a political statement.
 
Racial or economic privilege, even merely equality, would have saved them.
 
Lutherf said:
There are myriad cases of prosecution and conviction based on little more than an emotional response to a currently trending social topic. We've seen "witch hunts" involving rape, child abuse, racism, homophobia, political ideology and tons of other stuff. Our legal system is supposed to weed out the cases where the complaints aren't substantiated but DAs looking for a political boost can go off the rails. It's not easy for a guy or girl just making ends meet to put up a defense capable of overcoming a DA who is willing to put the full resources of his office into making a political statement.
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I hate reading about these cases.

The LE guy(s) may not be looking for anything more than a closed case = a notch in their belt. The actual "victim" can be any hapless soul who happens to have been in the wrong place at the wrong time, or some such thing.

Yes, the gubment should pay out a ton of money for allowing this to happen, and the accusers and framers should be punished - severely.
 
TheGoverness said:
Article Here.




This story came out a few weeks ago, but it's still very relevant to talk about. This story pisses me off to no end. I cannot believe that these two were convicted of this, I think it was just a case of "Oh, it's two black men, so those thugs probably did it". The doctor examination showed that she had no injuries to what she had claimed she had gotten from them. Nor did they search the ****ing car she claimed she got raped in. Like, what the absolute ****. This whole case is just horrible beyond belief. **** that woman for lying about rape, because not only are you making it harder for actual rape victims to come out with there experiences, you ****ing destroyed those men's lives, and took 26 good years away from them. And that DA can shove it. It is not a tragedy for all involved. It is a tragedy for the two lives that were ruined because of your former client's lies.
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Reminds me of the Central Park 5
 
TheGoverness said:
I hope they get millions. Because what was done to them was a serious miscarriage of justice.



They said the statute of limitations is past, but I still think this woman should have to face some kind of legal repercussion. That goes for all who've made false accusations of this nature. She shouldn't get to get off scott-free. And that's the problem with a lot of these cases where people have been falsely accused of rape/sexual assault. I remember one case back a few years, where someone had been accused of rape, and got convicted for it. Their mother was so distraught, that she committed suicide. And then later the girl admitted that she was never raped. She destroyed a family, but she didn't have to face any legal repercussions for what she did, which she absolutely should have.



I will.
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That's heartbreaking. They'll never get that time back - she stole a huge chunk of their lives. I, too, think she should be punished. It's just not right. :(
 
TheGoverness said:
Article Here.




This story came out a few weeks ago, but it's still very relevant to talk about. This story pisses me off to no end. I cannot believe that these two were convicted of this, I think it was just a case of "Oh, it's two black men, so those thugs probably did it". The doctor examination showed that she had no injuries to what she had claimed she had gotten from them. Nor did they search the ****ing car she claimed she got raped in. Like, what the absolute ****. This whole case is just horrible beyond belief. **** that woman for lying about rape, because not only are you making it harder for actual rape victims to come out with there experiences, you ****ing destroyed those men's lives, and took 26 good years away from them. And that DA can shove it. It is not a tragedy for all involved. It is a tragedy for the two lives that were ruined because of your former client's lies.
Click to expand...

She should get punished, and punished badly, for ruining the lives of these men with a false accusation. This is a miscarriage of justice in every conceivable way.
 
TheGoverness said:
Article Here.




This story came out a few weeks ago, but it's still very relevant to talk about. This story pisses me off to no end. I cannot believe that these two were convicted of this, I think it was just a case of "Oh, it's two black men, so those thugs probably did it". The doctor examination showed that she had no injuries to what she had claimed she had gotten from them. Nor did they search the ****ing car she claimed she got raped in. Like, what the absolute ****. This whole case is just horrible beyond belief. **** that woman for lying about rape, because not only are you making it harder for actual rape victims to come out with there experiences, you ****ing destroyed those men's lives, and took 26 good years away from them. And that DA can shove it. It is not a tragedy for all involved. It is a tragedy for the two lives that were ruined because of your former client's lies.
Click to expand...
Society trains people that it's offensive to question a woman who claims rape. We are suppose to automatically take her at her word. Some women take advantage of that.

I would like to know what has happened to this woman now that the truth has come out. Is she in jail? The author of the article does not even reveal her name. Looks to me like another example of the misandry that people deny exists.

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk
 
Lutherf said:
There are myriad cases of prosecution and conviction based on little more than an emotional response to a currently trending social topic. We've seen "witch hunts" involving rape, child abuse, racism, homophobia, political ideology and tons of other stuff. Our legal system is supposed to weed out the cases where the complaints aren't substantiated but DAs looking for a political boost can go off the rails. It's not easy for a guy or girl just making ends meet to put up a defense capable of overcoming a DA who is willing to put the full resources of his office into making a political statement.
Click to expand...

This case is about the systematic racism of the justice system. Blacks convicted with almost no evidence is far more common than you think. That's the kind of thing Kaepernick was protesting but many Americans think doesn't exist.
 
SonOfDaedalus said:
This case is about the systematic racism of the justice system. Blacks convicted with almost no evidence is far more common than you think. That's the kind of thing Kaepernick was protesting but many Americans think doesn't exist.
Click to expand...

Let me ask you a question. If a black subject is convicted of felonious assault against a black victim and the witnesses are also black then, assuming the conviction was overturned at some later point, how is racial bias a factor in that?

I'm not suggesting that the above scenario is indicative of all cases where a black person is wrongly convicted but I do want to point out that there are LOTS of reasons that we could see such a disparity and racial animus, conscious or unconscious, isn't necessarily the only cause.
 
As heartbreaking as this is, the State is not on the hook for reparations legally. The can, however, pay the men if they so chose to, but I doubt it. I'd like to get the bitch who accused them in the first place. truth is, that although everyone is entitled to a fair trail, no one says anything about a thorough trail, especially when a jury convicted the two men.

I hate stories like this and our system is not perfect but it's the best we have.

Tim-
 
Beaudreaux said:
Under these circumstances, I deeply believe that we as citizens owe these two men the only thing we can give them at this point... a hell of a lot of money. What is 26 years worth in cash? I don't know, but it should be a hell of a lot.

The state of NY has to do the right thing here, regardless of sovereign immunity. Also, the woman that perjured herself should be sentenced to an equal amount of time in jail that she cost these men with her lies.

Let us know if you hear anything else about these two guys and what, if anything, the state does for them.
Click to expand...
How should she be punished?

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk
 
Lutherf said:
There are myriad cases of prosecution and conviction based on little more than an emotional response to a currently trending social topic. We've seen "witch hunts" involving rape, child abuse, racism, homophobia, political ideology and tons of other stuff. Our legal system is supposed to weed out the cases where the complaints aren't substantiated but DAs looking for a political boost can go off the rails. It's not easy for a guy or girl just making ends meet to put up a defense capable of overcoming a DA who is willing to put the full resources of his office into making a political statement.
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I agree but I struggle with how to balance it so it's fair. Do you have any suggestions?

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk
 
doxygen said:
I hate reading about these cases.

The LE guy(s) may not be looking for anything more than a closed case = a notch in their belt. The actual "victim" can be any hapless soul who happens to have been in the wrong place at the wrong time, or some such thing.

Yes, the gubment should pay out a ton of money for allowing this to happen, and the accusers and framers should be punished - severely.
Click to expand...
I rather put the prosecute in jail if it's found he ignored evidence or he loses his ability to practice law if he was just incompetent

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk
 
Lutherf said:
There are myriad cases of prosecution and conviction based on little more than an emotional response to a currently trending social topic. We've seen "witch hunts" involving rape, child abuse, racism, homophobia, political ideology and tons of other stuff. Our legal system is supposed to weed out the cases where the complaints aren't substantiated but DAs looking for a political boost can go off the rails. It's not easy for a guy or girl just making ends meet to put up a defense capable of overcoming a DA who is willing to put the full resources of his office into making a political statement.
Click to expand...

True and lying and/or shoddy investigative work, either intentional or accidental, also doesn't help a bit.
 
trouble13 said:
I agree but I struggle with how to balance it so it's fair. Do you have any suggestions?

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk
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On the whole, our system does a good job. We really can't control the quality of representation more than we do. The one area where we could make a difference is in recognizing and eliminating those who engage in malicious or overtly political prosecutions. That, however, is really up to the people of the community to deal with.

Basically, people who are concerned about unjust prosecution and/or incompetent representation need to get personally involved in the process. They need to learn how the systems work and take up advocacy roles. Posting articles on Twitter or complaining to sympathetic ears over coffee at Starbucks isn't enough. My guess is that those who do so will find the system to be much less oppressive than they believe it is. Also, once they learn the ropes they'll probably be able to wade through all the muck a lot easier to find those cases where a real injustice is being done.

I don't want my original post on this to be misconstrued. I'm sure that there are lots and lots of bad convictions but, taken as a fraction of all convictions, it's not a high percentage. Still, everyone deserves justice and everyone deserves an advocate. If it's your passion then get involved but do so with open eyes and an open mind.
 
veritas1 said:
True and lying and/or shoddy investigative work, either intentional or accidental, also doesn't help a bit.
Click to expand...

Right, as I said, there are LOTS of reasons someone might be wrongly convicted. While it would be foolish to say that racism plays no part in any of the convictions it would be equally unwise to assume that racism plays a bigger role than it actually does.
 
Lutherf said:
Let me ask you a question. If a black subject is convicted of felonious assault against a black victim and the witnesses are also black then, assuming the conviction was overturned at some later point, how is racial bias a factor in that?
Click to expand...

How? Because systemic (and, at times, personal) racial bias plays a factor in EVERY aspect of the judicial process....from policing and surveillance, to indictment, to trial and to sentencing process. And we KNOW this to be a FACT.

We KNOW, for example, that African-Americans and white Americans use and sell illegal drugs at the same rates (actually blacks are slightly LESS likely to use and sell most illegal drugs than whites, but not to a statistically significant degree). And yet, we also KNOW, that blacks are MUCH more likely to be arrested, charged and convicted on drug offenses than whites. And we KNOW that, once convicted, blacks receive harsher sentences, on average, than whites convicted of the SAME offenses.

I'm not suggesting that the above scenario is indicative of all cases where a black person is wrongly convicted but I do want to point out that there are LOTS of reasons that we could see such a disparity and racial animus, conscious or unconscious, isn't necessarily the only cause.
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Ok, I'll play.

For example......?
 
Last edited:
Hicup said:
As heartbreaking as this is, the State is not on the hook for reparations legally. The can, however, pay the men if they so chose to, but I doubt it. I'd like to get the bitch who accused them in the first place. truth is, that although everyone is entitled to a fair trail, no one says anything about a thorough trail, especially when a jury convicted the two men.

I hate stories like this and our system is not perfect but it's the best we have.

Tim-
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BULL****! The state prosecuted them, convicted them and incarcerated them.
Damn straight they are on the hook, and for plenty, and these two may very well be able to sue and win significant punitive damages, because NY's laws provide for such compensation in cases of wrongful convictions.

https://codes.findlaw.com/ny/court-of-claims-act/ctc-sect-8-b.html
 
Lutherf said:
On the whole, our system does a good job. We really can't control the quality of representation more than we do. The one area where we could make a difference is in recognizing and eliminating those who engage in malicious or overtly political prosecutions. That, however, is really up to the people of the community to deal with.

Basically, people who are concerned about unjust prosecution and/or incompetent representation need to get personally involved in the process. They need to learn how the systems work and take up advocacy roles. Posting articles on Twitter or complaining to sympathetic ears over coffee at Starbucks isn't enough. My guess is that those who do so will find the system to be much less oppressive than they believe it is. Also, once they learn the ropes they'll probably be able to wade through all the muck a lot easier to find those cases where a real injustice is being done.

I don't want my original post on this to be misconstrued. I'm sure that there are lots and lots of bad convictions but, taken as a fraction of all convictions, it's not a high percentage. Still, everyone deserves justice and everyone deserves an advocate. If it's your passion then get involved but do so with open eyes and an open mind.
Click to expand...
Just want to float an idea at you. What if the law said that however much they spent on prosecuting you they must offer the equilivent amount in defending you. Would that be more fair iyo?


Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk
 
TheGoverness said:
They said the statute of limitations is past, but I still think this woman should have to face some kind of legal repercussion.
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The Statute of Limitations has not expired. She continued to commit perjury up to the time she revised her story and the innocent men remained imprisoned. The Statute of Limitations for Frauds doesn't even start until the fraud is discovered, which could be more than 100 years.
 
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