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Guns and education, in both our children come second!

I

independentusa

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We have had 22 shootings at schools since the beginning of the year and not one law passed n the national level to really do anything about it. Guns come of course before our children. To many who back the NRA it is the cost of freedom.
Then education. There are teachers all over the country that are going on strike, not just because their salaries are so low, but because of the cuts in education in almost every state controlled by the GOP. My state, Wisco, cut almost a billion dollars out of our budget for public schools and in the past couple of years added some money back that went almost totally to private schools. Private schools in Wisco now receive more money from the state per student than they give to public schools. I am sure we are seeing the same all over the country. We wonder why our students are falling behind the rest of the world in many educational areas. So like in education, our children come second in education.
 
independentusa said:
We have had 22 shootings at schools since the beginning of the year and not one law passed n the national level to really do anything about it. Guns come of course before our children. To many who back the NRA it is the cost of freedom.
Then education. There are teachers all over the country that are going on strike, not just because their salaries are so low, but because of the cuts in education in almost every state controlled by the GOP. My state, Wisco, cut almost a billion dollars out of our budget for public schools and in the past couple of years added some money back that went almost totally to private schools. Private schools in Wisco now receive more money from the state per student than they give to public schools. I am sure we are seeing the same all over the country. We wonder why our students are falling behind the rest of the world in many educational areas. So like in education, our children come second in education.
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We have been a gun culture for 200+ years. Only recently is it a problem.

Suggestion... It ain't only the guns.
 
Our children didn't just fall behind. They've been behind for a long time. Perhaps we need to look at the people running the schools, hiring the teachers, sitting on school boards and deciding on curricula.
 
Fledermaus said:
We have been a gun culture for 200+ years. Only recently is it a problem.

Suggestion... It ain't only the guns.
Click to expand...

You are right, but we do need to do something on both ends, with treatment and find a way to make it harder for these kids to get guns, instead of easier.
 
It's always only a problem when Americans are murdering Americans. There is no problem with Americans murdering tens of millions of others.

===========

"You've got to understand that the United States is and has always been a war-loving nation, a warring nation. But one with a smile. We've learned how to put a twist on it so we can feel good about doing what other nations have done that we consider to be evil.

This is part of my analysis. And the CIA, in our training ..... when we were novices, people from the analytical side came to talk to us and they said:" -- John Stockwell

"If you're trying to figure out what a nation is going to do, you don't take the circumstances on the table in front of you and say, the logical thing is that they'll do this. What you do is you look at the history of the country, its cycles of war or whatever. If it's a country that's gone to war frequently in its past, you expect it to go to war again. If it's a country that never goes to war, you expect it to find a peaceful solution." - CIA trainers
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When American children are taught that murder is a good thing, an American value, when war mongering, when it's described as a good thing to go and kill others, it should come as no surprise that you get this kind of carnage.
 
veritas1 said:
Our children didn't just fall behind. They've been behind for a long time. Perhaps we need to look at the people running the schools, hiring the teachers, sitting on school boards and deciding on curricula.
Click to expand...

Perhaps we should be making teaching a real profession like other countries do who are moving ahead of us. Instead we make them out to be the bad guys. We treat our teachers like dirt. The first thing that the GOP did in this state was to make teachers out to be and I use their term, "union thugs". They then cut their benefits and allowed districts to cut their salaries and made the teacher's unions the bad guy. Now we are having trouble finding teachers to fill positions and the state is thinking about using non-licensed teachers to fill the gap. They are even going to allow some positions to be filled by those with only high school degrees. All so they can cut taxes for the wealthy and that they did. So you can blame the education system, or you can realize that making education of our children a very low priority is a major part of the problem.
 
veritas1 said:
Our children didn't just fall behind. They've been behind for a long time. Perhaps we need to look at the people running the schools, hiring the teachers, sitting on school boards and deciding on curricula.
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... and filling their heads with fictitious US history.
 
Fledermaus said:
We have been a gun culture for 200+ years. Only recently is it a problem.

Suggestion... It ain't only the guns.
Click to expand...

There was no "gun culture". Saying that a farmer that has a gun to shoot predators attacking his livestock or to hunt is the same as the "typical" gun owner now that owns a boatload of guns and has no purpose for it is just false.
 
independentusa said:
We have had 22 shootings at schools since the beginning of the year and not one law passed n the national level to really do anything about it. Guns come of course before our children. To many who back the NRA it is the cost of freedom.
Then education. There are teachers all over the country that are going on strike, not just because their salaries are so low, but because of the cuts in education in almost every state controlled by the GOP. My state, Wisco, cut almost a billion dollars out of our budget for public schools and in the past couple of years added some money back that went almost totally to private schools. Private schools in Wisco now receive more money from the state per student than they give to public schools. I am sure we are seeing the same all over the country. We wonder why our students are falling behind the rest of the world in many educational areas. So like in education, our children come second in education.
Click to expand...

What gun legislation would have prevented today's shootings in Santa Fe, TX?

Please be specific.

Or, if you have other solutions, I would also be interested.
 
When American children are taught that murder is a good thing, that it is an American value, when war mongering, when it's described as a good thing to go and kill others, it should come as no surprise that you get this kind of carnage.

The propaganda cannot overwhelm some realities. Devaluing life is central to the US experience.

When war criminal presidents are held in high regard, when the US military regularly engages in the same supreme war crimes that the Nazis were hung for but they are celebrated as heroes, anyone with a brain knows that the US history that is taught is a fiction. Teaching violence, celebrating violence in school, movies, all US media makes US children what they are.
 
independentusa said:
Perhaps we should be making teaching a real profession like other countries do who are moving ahead of us. Instead we make them out to be the bad guys. We treat our teachers like dirt. The first thing that the GOP did in this state was to make teachers out to be and I use their term, "union thugs". They then cut their benefits and allowed districts to cut their salaries and made the teacher's unions the bad guy. Now we are having trouble finding teachers to fill positions and the state is thinking about using non-licensed teachers to fill the gap. They are even going to allow some positions to be filled by those with only high school degrees. All so they can cut taxes for the wealthy and that they did. So you can blame the education system, or you can realize that making education of our children a very low priority is a major part of the problem.
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I agree. IMO pressure from parents and school boards not backing up teachers is a big part of the problem.

Also, I think that good teachers are worth alot and should be paid accordingly...but that many arent very motivated. I think that we should get rid of the unions and go to a merit-based pay system.
 
veritas1 said:
Right, we need to fill their heads with self loathing. Well, at least the white kids anyway.:roll:
Click to expand...

At least you are honest enough to acknowledge the reality that there is a lot to hate about American perfidy, war crimes, terrorism, war mongering, ... . That is progress.

The German people seem to have handled things quite well. Don't you think that Americans are capable of being at least that honest?
 
camlok said:
When American children are taught that murder is a good thing, that it is an American value, when war mongering, when it's described as a good thing to go and kill others, it should come as no surprise that you get this kind of carnage.

The propaganda cannot overwhelm some realities. Devaluing life is central to the US experience.

When war criminal presidents are held in high regard, when the US military regularly engages in the same supreme war crimes that the Nazis were hung for but they are celebrated as heroes, anyone with a brain knows that the US history that is taught is a fiction. Teaching violence, celebrating violence in school, movies, all US media makes US children what they are.
Click to expand...

Who the hell is teaching violence? Do you honestly think that the average history teacher is portraying Vietnam as a good war or wise policy? Or Iraq? Please provide the evidence if you have any.
 
Fledermaus said:
We have been a gun culture for 200+ years. Only recently is it a problem.

Suggestion... It ain't only the guns.
Click to expand...

Don't think that is the suggestion, funding for education may be a good point.
 
veritas1 said:
Who the hell is teaching violence? Do you honestly think that the average history teacher is portraying Vietnam as a good war or wise policy? Or Iraq? Please provide the evidence if you have any.
Click to expand...

You are wasting your time there, the hate runs very Deep in that one.
 
camlok said:
At least you are honest enough to acknowledge the reality that there is a lot to hate about American perfidy, war crimes, terrorism, war mongering, ... . That is progress.

The German people seem to have handled things quite well. Don't you think that Americans are capable of being at least that honest?
Click to expand...

Americans didn't put 6 million Jews into gas chambers or take over half of Europe. Your comparisons are laughable. We aren't perfect but we are far, far from what you claim.
 
veritas1 said:
Who the hell is teaching violence?
Click to expand...

US media, Hollywood, US federal administrations, US citizens, like pretty much all the folks on any US discussion site, ... .


Do you honestly think that the average history teacher is portraying Vietnam as a good war or wise policy? Or Iraq? Please provide the evidence if you have any.
Click to expand...

How many presidents, military personnel, administration officials, ... are now serving prison terms or ever did serve prison terms for the myriad war crimes, terrorism, planned genocides, ... ?
 
Fledermaus said:
We have been a gun culture for 200+ years. Only recently is it a problem.

Suggestion... It ain't only the guns.
Click to expand...

You are right it is our population, we need to kick out about 100 million people to get back to where it was in those good old days.
 
veritas1 said:
Americans didn't put 6 million Jews into gas chambers or take over half of Europe. Your comparisons are laughable. We aren't perfect but we are far, far from what you claim.
Click to expand...

The following is why the US is now reaping what it has sown. There is no value to life for Americans. Save for its propaganda value.

Americans did put well over 6 million Koreans, Vietnamese, Cambodians, East Timorese, Indonesians, Laotians, ... into US style "gas chambers".

Dead is dead. War crimes are war crimes. Terrorism is terrorism. US lies about being a beacon of freedom are still just US lies.

Why?

Because Allan Dulles said that in order to maintain the US's wildly uneven possession of the world's wealth, it had to shuck all the BS about freedoms, especially in SE Asia. That was the US plan for post WWII, a big grab of all of Europe's SE Asian colonies. Note that the USA, the beacon of freedom had been plundering Central and South American countries for years.
 
Casper said:
You are wasting your time there, the hate runs very Deep in that one.
Click to expand...

You don't much like John Stockwell, or anyone else, telling you the truth, do you?
 
camlok said:
US media, Hollywood, US federal administrations, US citizens, like pretty much all the folks on any US discussion site, ... .




How many presidents, military personnel, administration officials, ... are now serving prison terms or ever did serve prison terms for the myriad war crimes, terrorism, planned genocides, ... ?
Click to expand...

So, posters to this forum are teaching violence? Do tell. No, they are offering opinions. You can counter them if you wish. I don't know how many, if any, people have served prison terms. However, i asked you for evidence that schools are teaching Vietnam as a good war or the Iraq invasion as a good decision. Do you have any evidence of this?
 
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