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Guns and education, in both our children come second!

camlok said:
The following is why the US is now reaping what it has sown. There is no value to life for Americans. Save for its propaganda value.

Americans did put well over 6 million Koreans, Vietnamese, Cambodians, East Timorese, Indonesians, Laotians, ... into US style "gas chambers".

Dead is dead. War crimes are war crimes. Terrorism is terrorism. US lies about being a beacon of freedom are still just US lies.

Why?

Because Allan Dulles said that in order to maintain the US's wildly uneven possession of the world's wealth, it had to shuck all the BS about freedoms, especially in SE Asia. That was the US plan for post WWII, a big grab of all of Europe's SE Asian colonies. Note that the USA, the beacon of freedom had been plundering Central and South American countries for years.
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Yea, so? You act like you're giving out breaking news. Halberstam beat you to it by about four decades. We were in a world power struggle with the Soviets. We feared they would "topple the dominoes" before we could get there. Of course, it was about wealth and power. One can call the policy misguided, wrong, etc. Do you think anyone is now presenting it as intelligent policy?
 
camlok said:
You don't much like John Stockwell, or anyone else, telling you the truth, do you?
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You would not know the truth if it had its teeth sunk in your arse, not to worry, the truth stays far away from you.
 
Casper said:
You would not know the truth if it had its teeth sunk in your arse, not to worry, the truth stays far away from you.
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So so so lame.

It was John Stockwell who presented you with the truth. It seems all you are interested in is US alternate truth. A true Trumpeteer. Carry on.
 
veritas1 said:
Yea, so? You act like you're giving out breaking news. Halberstam beat you to it by about four decades.
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And yet, thru all this time, you still chose to lie, to create deception, to shift attention away from all these evil crimes.

We were in a world power struggle with the Soviets. We feared they would "topple the dominoes" before we could get there.
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And still, as usual, with the BS. Just as your next quoted material illustrates.

That was all US propaganda. It was being done solely for the US to plunder countries damaged by WWII.


Of course, it was about wealth and power. One can call the policy misguided, wrong, etc. Do you think anyone is now presenting it as intelligent policy?
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Yes, all the time. There is no honesty, that is zero. Vietnam and all US war crimes are still being used as the rankest US propaganda. "It was a mistake"; "we didn't hammer them hard enough", ... all the usual lame US excuses, NEVER any remorse, never any discussion of the truly evil USA things done for truly evil reasons.

As you have noted, "Of course, it was about wealth and power".

This is why your education system is failing, this is why you have so many killers - as John Stockwell notes, you train your killers from birth. War mongers raising new generations of war mongers.
 
camlok said:
The following is why the US is now reaping what it has sown. There is no value to life for Americans. Save for its propaganda value.

Americans did put well over 6 million Koreans, Vietnamese, Cambodians, East Timorese, Indonesians, Laotians, ... into US style "gas chambers".

Dead is dead. War crimes are war crimes. Terrorism is terrorism. US lies about being a beacon of freedom are still just US lies.

Why?

Because Allan Dulles said that in order to maintain the US's wildly uneven possession of the world's wealth, it had to shuck all the BS about freedoms, especially in SE Asia. That was the US plan for post WWII, a big grab of all of Europe's SE Asian colonies. Note that the USA, the beacon of freedom had been plundering Central and South American countries for years.
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Citation?
 
Fledermaus said:
We have been a gun culture for 200+ years. Only recently is it a problem.

Suggestion... It ain't only the guns.
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you mean people were not being shot left and right in the streets in the 1700, 1800s. Because as I recall reading the gun violance was fairly rampant, however it was not mass shooting...specially when adding alcohol to the mix, that many cities started enforcing no gun laws, not to mention they did have that many repeater or auto loading guns...hard to go on a mass shooting when it takes couple minutes to load after firing 6 rounds. Then into early 1900s upto 1960s...minus the mafia people did have not so many guns and certainly not semi or automatic rifles. Then came black panther and their march into Sacramento Congress. Which freakout Reagan and the rest of white senators, that they started banning guns... Yes folks the first legislative gun control came from Reagan...governor of California! And then NRA was taken over by bunch gun zealous group and began to push the Second amendments as one all be all rights...which also promoted the
myth of Governor take over and you need to load up on auto weapons to save your children crap.

which naturally leads to more guns, you have more gun and that means more gun violance. It is not magic folks...simple logic.


Diving mullah
 
Diving Mullah said:
you mean people were not being shot left and right in the streets in the 1700, 1800s. Because as I recall reading the gun violance was fairly rampant, however it was not mass shooting...specially when adding alcohol to the mix, that many cities started enforcing no gun laws, not to mention they did have that many repeater or auto loading guns...hard to go on a mass shooting when it takes couple minutes to load after firing 6 rounds. Then into early 1900s upto 1960s...minus the mafia people did have not so many guns and certainly not semi or automatic rifles. Then came black panther and their march into Sacramento Congress. Which freakout Reagan and the rest of white senators, that they started banning guns... Yes folks the first legislative gun control came from Reagan...governor of California! And then NRA was taken over by bunch gun zealous group and began to push the Second amendments as one all be all rights...which also promoted the
myth of Governor take over and you need to load up on auto weapons to save your children crap.

which naturally leads to more guns, you have more gun and that means more gun violance. It is not magic folks...simple logic.

Diving mullah
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We are speaking of a SCHOOL SHOOTING are we not?

And as of the 1860s we had lever actions rifles carrying 12-15 rounds, top break revolvers (quicker to load), etc. Plenty of firepower there. You need more? Carry another pistol.

By the 1910s semi-auto pistols with detachable box magazines. By the 1940s-1950s the M-1 Carbine became popular.

And the shooter today was old school .38 and a shotgun...
 
independentusa said:
We have had 22 shootings at schools since the beginning of the year and not one law passed n the national level to really do anything about it. Guns come of course before our children. To many who back the NRA it is the cost of freedom.
Then education. There are teachers all over the country that are going on strike, not just because their salaries are so low, but because of the cuts in education in almost every state controlled by the GOP. My state, Wisco, cut almost a billion dollars out of our budget for public schools and in the past couple of years added some money back that went almost totally to private schools. Private schools in Wisco now receive more money from the state per student than they give to public schools. I am sure we are seeing the same all over the country. We wonder why our students are falling behind the rest of the world in many educational areas. So like in education, our children come second in education.
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We need to secure the schools.
 
Lursa said:
I agree. IMO pressure from parents and school boards not backing up teachers is a big part of the problem.

Also, I think that good teachers are worth alot and should be paid accordingly...but that many arent very motivated. I think that we should get rid of the unions and go to a merit-based pay system.
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Have you ever dealt with a merit based pay system, the biggest ass kissers will get the gold no matter how bad they are. If you make teaching a well paid profession, you won't need a union and you can pick and choose the best and get rid of the rest. Teachers as they do in other countries where they are treated like a profession, have the respect for what they do. The way e reat them in this country we either get those who really love teaching or the worst of the worst.
 
apdst said:
We need to secure the schools.
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The question is how and at what cost? Got a good suggestion? Arming our teachers isn't a good one. And in most situations you will be armed witha a hand gun against a rifle or a shotgun. Don't like those odds one bit. Limit the number of doors as suggested by the Lt Governor of Texas. Great unless you have a fire and then watch them all burn. A killer won't need a gun, just gas and a match.
 
Fledermaus said:
Please tell us which of the laws passed or proposed would have stopped this?
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its another case of someone who has a well documented hatred of gun owners for political reasons trying to use this recent tragedy to advance laws designed to harass gun ownership
 
independentusa said:
The question is how and at what cost? Got a good suggestion? Arming our teachers isn't a good one. And in most situations you will be armed witha a hand gun against a rifle or a shotgun. Don't like those odds one bit. Limit the number of doors as suggested by the Lt Governor of Texas. Great unless you have a fire and then watch them all burn. A killer won't need a gun, just gas and a match.
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maybe we should ban gas and matches?
 
Fledermaus said:
Mental Health for one.

Quit focusing on the NON-issue/
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Which state or country has low gun deaths and our lax gun laws due to a great mental health system?
 
independentusa said:
The question is how and at what cost? Got a good suggestion? Arming our teachers isn't a good one. And in most situations you will be armed witha a hand gun against a rifle or a shotgun. Don't like those odds one bit. Limit the number of doors as suggested by the Lt Governor of Texas. Great unless you have a fire and then watch them all burn. A killer won't need a gun, just gas and a match.
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I don't think he meant that - more likely the doors to enter like in a theater or an "old people" home: one entrance, multiple exits.
 
independentusa said:
Have you ever dealt with a merit based pay system, the biggest ass kissers will get the gold no matter how bad they are. If you make teaching a well paid profession, you won't need a union and you can pick and choose the best and get rid of the rest. Teachers as they do in other countries where they are treated like a profession, have the respect for what they do. The way e reat them in this country we either get those who really love teaching or the worst of the worst.
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It's not that hard in a school system...there are already testing standards. I wouldnt penalize teachers who have a 'bad year' but if there's a trend? For sure.
 
independentusa said:
The question is how and at what cost? Got a good suggestion? Arming our teachers isn't a good one. And in most situations you will be armed witha a hand gun against a rifle or a shotgun. Don't like those odds one bit. Limit the number of doors as suggested by the Lt Governor of Texas. Great unless you have a fire and then watch them all burn. A killer won't need a gun, just gas and a match.
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1. Who cares what it costs? You picked a hell of a time to get cheap all of sudden.

2. Arming capable teachers is part of the solution.

3. I would rather go up against a rifle, or shotgun with a pistol than nothing all. I sure as hell don't like the odds, going in unarmed.
 
Fledermaus said:
We have been a gun culture for 200+ years. Only recently is it a problem. Suggestion... It ain't only the guns.
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Difficult to commit mass murder with a flintlock.... :roll:

Suggestion.... it could include the particular type of 'guns'.... :peace
 
apdst said:
1. Who cares what it costs? You picked a hell of a time to get cheap all of sudden. 2. Arming capable teachers is part of the solution. 3. I would rather go up against a rifle, or shotgun with a pistol than nothing all. I sure as hell don't like the odds, going in unarmed.
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Who cares about costs, you picked a hellova time to go cheap. Arming 'capable' teachers is so hit and miss compared to assigning at least as many guards judges get in their courthouse, spend the money... :doh

While we all know YOU'D charge a dozen terrorists with a broken Kabar I don't know how many educators would follow your heroic example. Far better would be a trained, properly armed and equipped LEO team than hoping there will be a bunch of apdsts in the 'librul' education system... :peace
 
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