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Michael Avenatti under fire

What truth? I don't care who hires whom for a lawyer. I have a life. Why would I worry about why someone hires a lawyer, or what a lawyer that another adult hires does?

You want to obsess about her lawyer, then feel free. I sincerely doubt she knows you're alive, let alone cares that her choice in lawyers is so important to you.

Because lawyers have to follow special laws, and if you don't know who hired him as a lawyer, it could be that nobody hired him as a lawyer, which changes what he is able to say, could change his goals, and puts a whole new context on this entire situation. But again, you have to care about the truth in order for it to matter who hired Avenatti as a lawyer, if anybody. You again call Avenatti Stormy's lawyer, but you do know that he is. You have no proof that he is her lawyer.
 
Because lawyers have to follow special laws, and if you don't know who hired him as a lawyer, it could be that nobody hired him as a lawyer, which changes what he is able to say, could change his goals, and puts a whole new context on this entire situation. But again, you have to care about the truth in order for it to matter who hired Avenatti as a lawyer, if anybody. You again call Avenatti Stormy's lawyer, but you do know that he is. You have no proof that he is her lawyer.

I have no proof that Avenatti is Daniels' lawyer? Huh?

If you think her lawyer (who is Avenatti) is doing something wrong, then report him to the bar.
 
The election is a poor example of wrongness given that no one was able to predict that Trump would take the white house due to a fluke of he electoral college system, after all, she did win the popular vote.

I find it amusing that when disagreeing with right wingers, their common retort is "bias".

I remember saying to someone who had a British accent, I said to her " I love your accent ".

She told me, "That's funny, if you came to England, I would be saying the same thing to you".

Meditate on that, maybe it will sink in, but I won't be holding my breath.

actually, I do listen to Fox news, I find it a good thing to listen to the opposition. I find persons like Maddow far more compelling in her research, though. I listen to Alan Dershowitz who is one of the least biased pundits on TV, but I don't always agree with him. Hannity, people like him make me want to vomit, he's like a scab oozing with misleading information, blatant falsehoods and lies

There are many viewpoints floating about, and I go with those that appeal to my sensibilities.

That's what every one does. So, to call someone 'biased" as an argument against that person, is like saying the sky is blue as an argument.

in other words, it's a non-argument, and meaningless.

Everyone is biased and those that are not are wishy washy and unable to take a stand.


One thing is certain, MSNBC, CNN, NPR, etc. would never propagate the bogus conspiracy theories that were all over fox news prime time, like the seth richards story, like the uranium one story. I listen to fox, and I'm amazed at how often they get it wrong, from Hannity, to Pirro, etc.
Now they are impugning the integrity of Mueller, and there is nothing correct about it, but I'm sure you're lapping it up like the good right winger you are.

Right?

right.

This is quite amusing to me. I was able to predict that Trump would win. The LA Times polled for months that Trump was ahead. I know of others that predicted a Trump victory. This is the problem when you live in your little echo chamber and consider everyone who disagrees with you to lack credibility. Then when your echo chamber is all wrong, you don't blame them, because you think that literally everybody credible was wrong. Well, sorry, but no, not everybody was wrong. I'm a perfect example of someone credible that was correct, so is the LA Times, and so are many others.

You say that when disagreeing with Right Wingers, their common retort is bias. I am not a Right Winger. See, again, anybody who disagrees with you gets painted as not credible or a Right Winger or whatever. Your reality must be quite strange indeed.

You say Hannity is like a scab oozing with misleading information. The same could be said for the NYT, CNN, etc. These outlets don't even try to hide that they are anti-Trump. If Trump does something good, you can bet your butt they are going to have a problem with it, and many of these outlets can be found to have previously backed the position they disagree with, many times even the same exact writer. You don't seem to have a problem with that, though, and you don't want to explain it with bias, so what's your excuse?

Everybody is biased, but some more than others. I could easily turn this around and say everybody is wrong sometimes, so it's meaningless to talk about when Hannity is wrong. See how stupid that sounds? Furthermore, anti-Trump media isn't just biased, it's been objectively wrong many, many times. Bias just explains why they were wrong. If bias doesn't matter to you, the fact that they were wrong still should.

You say MSNBC, CNN, NPR, etc. would never propagate a bogus conspiracy like Seth Rich. How do you know that is a bogus story? You say you listen to Fox and you are amazed at how often they get it wrong, but do you realize how many Conservatives and Right Wingers would say the same thing about MSNBC, CNN, NPR, etc.? Because you interpreting facts a certain way, and you can be wrong on your interpretation. So when you say you view them as wrong on something, that doesn't mean they actually were. Now when we have something like MSNBC predicting Trump is going to lose by like 200+ Electoral Votes and then he wins, we know they were objectively wrong because that's not really open to much interpretation, but most topics aren't that clear.

You complain that Mueller's credibility is being attacked. What did you know about Mueller's credibility before he was assigned to investigate the Russia stuff? If nothing, how can you determine Mueller actually is credible? That is something that is very subjective, but you speak as if it's objective, and that shows exactly my point about why you hate Fox News. Even when they get it right, you're going to view them as getting it wrong.

You have a habit of asking me a question and then answering it yourself. That speaks volumes. It's extremely pretentious. Stop thinking you are better than me.
 
I have no proof that Avenatti is Daniels' lawyer? Huh?

If you think her lawyer (who is Avenatti) is doing something wrong, then report him to the bar.

Show me the proof that Michael Avenatti is the lawyer of Stormy Daniels. I noticed you didn't even attempt to prove that he is her lawyer.
 
I have not sidestepped anything, it's that you don't understand how evidence works. Avenatti's claims are being mostly considered because he is considered to be an authority on the law, as a lawyer. If he is operating as a political operative over a legal advisor, that changes everything. That even changes the laws he has to abide by. If he is working for an organization like the DNC over Stormy Daniels, that changes everything as well, and I've already explained why. He doesn't care if she gets sued if she is not his client. One of your questions even asks about the legal merit. If he is not operating as a lawyer then yes, that changes the legal merit of what he says. Again, I'm shocked I have to explain this to you. You have been assuming that Avenatti is operating as a lawyer for Stormy Daniels but you have no evidence of that.

These questions you ask me seem to be coming at the claims made by Avenatti as if they were formal evidence. They are not. Avenatti never gave formal evidence. He gave informal evidence only if you assume he's an authority on the law and assume he's operating under the capacity of a legal opinion. Even then, you have to sift through the informal evidence of other lawyers disagreeing with him, but this is the absolute most I can give you in terms of evidence, which is basically him stating his opinion. And now that his credibility, motives, and even whether he is giving a legal opinion, this even brings the informal evidence into question because we now have to question if he's actually operating as a legal authority. Tell me: What formal evidence do you have of Trump wrongdoing on the Stormy Daniels claims? Even if I granted the situation that Trump had sex with Stormy Daniels, which is a big grant given we don't have evidence of that, that still doesn't mean Trump did anything illegal. You have quite the road ahead of you to prove your case.

On the last part, that was a hypothetical, I wasn't making the case that the DNC paid Avenatti. We don't know who is paying Avenatti, but we know it's not Stormy Daniels. We don't even know that Stormy Daniels is Michael Avenatti's client. Again, to prove Trump wrongdoing here you have a long road ahead of you.

  1. Sidestepping and misunderstanding are two distinct things. You repeatedly introduced a host of things, not one of which addresses the question of whether be accurate or inaccurate Daniels'/Avenatti's assertions in the three categories I noted.
    • To wit, you have not shown that...
      1. The nature of Trump's involvement in the Daniels NDA as asserted by Avenatti is made more or less accurate by his motive or who's paying his fees.
      2. Avenatti's assertions about the veracity of Trump's remarks are made more or less accurate by his motive or who's paying his fees.
      3. Avenatti's assertions about the legal merit of the case he's making on Daniels' behalf are made more or less accurate by his motive or who's paying his fees.
    • ....yet you'd have have readers disbelieve Avenatti/Daniels based on motive and/or who's paying Avenatti's fees rather than on the factual and contextual accuracy of the remarks themselves.
  2. The "political operative" aspect of one's actions, Avenatti's/Daniels' don't alter the accuracy of any remarks they make.
  3. What the hell is "formal evidence?" There are fifteen kinds of evidence and none of them is identified as "formal."
  4. Avenatti's personal credibility isn't what I've remarked upon. What I've commented about is the accuracy of the genre of remarks he/Daniels have made. Statements that are factually and contextually accurate are credible for no other reason than because they are accurate.
  5. The Trump-Daniels matter is a civil, not criminal, matter, and it is not about whether Trump "wrong did;" thus there is no need for Daniels/Avenatti to prove wrongdoing. Their legal aim is to show the NDA is non-compliant with the provisions of CA tort law.
 
This guy obviously has some personal issues with Trump. It shouldn't be a surprise that he's a hypocrite. He's making a mockery of the position of being a lawyer. Playing attorney on Twitter rather than in the court room is pathetic. All it takes is googling a picture of the guy to see what an utter mess and creep he is.

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Looks like a goblin.
 
Show me the proof that Michael Avenatti is the lawyer of Stormy Daniels. I noticed you didn't even attempt to prove that he is her lawyer.

If you haven't been following the news headlines for the last few months, I can't help you. Sorry. You may want to catch up with the rest of the world.
 
This guy obviously has some personal issues with Trump. It shouldn't be a surprise that he's a hypocrite. He's making a mockery of the position of being a lawyer. Playing attorney on Twitter rather than in the court room is pathetic. All it takes is googling a picture of the guy to see what an utter mess and creep he is.

View attachment 67233229

Looks like a goblin.

Actually he has been counsel on quite a few large and famous cases against high profile people, including Paris Hilton, OJ Simpson, Jim Carrey, among others - and yes - even Trump, over The Apprentice. He's been successful in most of those cases too.
 
Actually he has been counsel on quite a few large and famous cases against high profile people, including Paris Hilton, OJ Simpson, Jim Carrey, among others - and yes - even Trump, over The Apprentice. He's been successful in most of those cases too.

That doesn't take away from anything I said with my post.
 
This is one of those situations when everyone on both sides are “shady”. There are no pure motives at play here from anyone.
 
That doesn't take away from anything I said with my post.

Well, sure it does. You said he's making a mockery of the job of attorney because you don't play a lawyer on Twitter, you actually play a lawyer in the courtroom. He is in the courtroom. He's a very successful litigator. He won a huge case last year against Kimberly-Clark and Haylard Health, in which the jury awarded his clients $454 million. That was settled in the courts - not on Twitter.
 
If Avenatti's money problems don't worry you about his motives, his legal advice to Stormy Daniels to break the agreement despite what her previous lawyer said she do,

Oh, you mean the previous lawyer (Keith Davidson) who was secretly working WITH Michael Cohen to reach resolutions to Trump's many "female problems"? That previous lawyer? The same guy who also represented the Playmate (McDougall) who also signed a very Trump-friendly NDA? That guy? You have repeated this talking point a few times now, so I'm just amused I guess. You do know that the previous lawyer in question is also being investigated (and likely to lose his license) for working AGAINST his own clients by secretly being in cahoots with Cohen and Trump while telling his clients that he was representing their best interests, don't you?


the State Bar of California investigation,

Who cares? If Avenatti has tax issues, who cares? For someone who pretends to be impartial, you sure to have a tendency to pick up on all of the major right wing grievances and talking points.

Avenatti's funding coming from not Stormy Daniels,

Again, who cares? If Putin himself was funding Avenatti, it wouldn't change the FACTS of the case, would it? How can you present outrageous, totally baseless "hypotheticals" like "what if the DNC is funding Avenatti", and then have the nerve to ask others if they are "interested in the truth"? You're not interested in truth. You're just promoting right wing conspiracy theories....just like every other right wing conspiracy theorist on this board.



and all of the other shady stuff with Avenati doesn't bother you, that's really up to you.

What "other shady stuff" would that be? The only "shady stuff" I've seen so far has been the completely shady (as well as unethical and illegal) dealings of the "previous lawyer". You should focus a little more on that, rather than pushing your made-up, crazy right wing conspiracy theories about the "funding" of Michael Avenatti.


I can't make you take that information into account, but it gives me great worries about his motives, credibility, strategy, etc. Time will tell so sticking your head in the sand isn't a very good strategy.

Please. One would have to be a fool to give credence to any of your BASELESS conspiracy theories. That's not "sticking your head in the sand"..........that's called being rational and realistic.
 
Well, sure it does. You said he's making a mockery of the job of attorney because you don't play a lawyer on Twitter, you actually play a lawyer in the courtroom. He is in the courtroom. He's a very successful litigator. He won a huge case last year against Kimberly-Clark and Haylard Health, in which the jury awarded his clients $454 million. That was settled in the courts - not on Twitter.

I'm talking about this case which he is indeed playing on twitter. Nowhere did I say this is how he handles all of his business present and prior.
 
I'm talking about this case which he is indeed playing on twitter. Nowhere did I say this is how he handles all of his business present and prior.

Okay, what is he supposed to be doing in court with this case? Is there something I don't know, like summonses being issued for everyone to appear in court?
 
Okay, what is he supposed to be doing in court with this case? Is there something I don't know, like summonses being issued for everyone to appear in court?

He should keep it in court, which is what he's not doing.
 
The hot rumor.....

Show Starring Avenatti and Scaramucci Is Being Pitched to Television Executives

Michael+Avenatti+Hollywood+Reporter+Most+Powerful+MS4L_K0xtgUl.jpg

On the show, Michael Avenatti, left, the lawyer for the pornographic film actress suing the president, would
square off with Anthony Scaramucci, the former White House communications director.
 
  1. Sidestepping and misunderstanding are two distinct things. You repeatedly introduced a host of things, not one of which addresses the question of whether be accurate or inaccurate Daniels'/Avenatti's assertions in the three categories I noted.
    • To wit, you have not shown that...
      1. The nature of Trump's involvement in the Daniels NDA as asserted by Avenatti is made more or less accurate by his motive or who's paying his fees.
      2. Avenatti's assertions about the veracity of Trump's remarks are made more or less accurate by his motive or who's paying his fees.
      3. Avenatti's assertions about the legal merit of the case he's making on Daniels' behalf are made more or less accurate by his motive or who's paying his fees.
    • ....yet you'd have have readers disbelieve Avenatti/Daniels based on motive and/or who's paying Avenatti's fees rather than on the factual and contextual accuracy of the remarks themselves.
  2. The "political operative" aspect of one's actions, Avenatti's/Daniels' don't alter the accuracy of any remarks they make.
  3. What the hell is "formal evidence?" There are fifteen kinds of evidence and none of them is identified as "formal."
  4. Avenatti's personal credibility isn't what I've remarked upon. What I've commented about is the accuracy of the genre of remarks he/Daniels have made. Statements that are factually and contextually accurate are credible for no other reason than because they are accurate.
  5. The Trump-Daniels matter is a civil, not criminal, matter, and it is not about whether Trump "wrong did;" thus there is no need for Daniels/Avenatti to prove wrongdoing. Their legal aim is to show the NDA is non-compliant with the provisions of CA tort law.

Formal evidence are the types of evidence that relate directly to the argument. Informal evidence are the types of evidence that are more indirect. For instance, pointing to what a lawyer says about the law can be used as evidence, but it doesn't actually prove the argument, as the lawyer can be wrong as well. Still, typically having an expert like a lawyer on your side is usually seen as evidence. This type of evidence is informal evidence. Formal evidence is where you provide something that actually helps prove an argument directly, like scientific evidence.

So in regards to Avenatti, he has never established his case. He has made arguments, but never provided us the formal evidence that prove his case. Anti-Trumpers have been pointing to him as a legal authority, which is informal evidence, but now with these questions even the informal evidence is now in jeopardy. Furthermore, you are trying to shift the burden of proof to me, when the burden of proof is on him (and Anti-Trumpers) to establish their case. Until you do, I can dismiss the claims that Trump did anything wrong. I've asked you to establish your case, and you have refused to even try. So, until you meet the burden of proof, I am correct in dismissing your argument. In your next comment, please clearly state your argument, and then provide the proper evidence proving that is the case. If you refuse to even try, I'm going to discontinue this conversation.

And just real quickly, in point 5 you again point to "their legal aim", but we don't have proof that Avenatti and Daniels are even connected with a legal aim. I also think we're talking past each other a bit because for some reason you only seem to care about the hush agreement, which I don't care about much at all. What I care about is how this impacts Trump, Avenatti has been cited by Anti-Trumpers as a guy who is going to take Trump down, and so that is the context in which I am speaking. I will appreciate your cooperation in the next comment.
 
Formal evidence are the types of evidence that relate directly to the argument. Informal evidence are the types of evidence that are more indirect. For instance, pointing to what a lawyer says about the law can be used as evidence, but it doesn't actually prove the argument, as the lawyer can be wrong as well. Still, typically having an expert like a lawyer on your side is usually seen as evidence. This type of evidence is informal evidence. Formal evidence is where you provide something that actually helps prove an argument directly, like scientific evidence.

So in regards to Avenatti, he has never established his case. He has made arguments, but never provided us the formal evidence that prove his case. Anti-Trumpers have been pointing to him as a legal authority, which is informal evidence, but now with these questions even the informal evidence is now in jeopardy. Furthermore, you are trying to shift the burden of proof to me, when the burden of proof is on him (and Anti-Trumpers) to establish their case. Until you do, I can dismiss the claims that Trump did anything wrong. I've asked you to establish your case, and you have refused to even try. So, until you meet the burden of proof, I am correct in dismissing your argument. In your next comment, please clearly state your argument, and then provide the proper evidence proving that is the case. If you refuse to even try, I'm going to discontinue this conversation.

And just real quickly, in point 5 you again point to "their legal aim", but we don't have proof that Avenatti and Daniels are even connected with a legal aim. I also think we're talking past each other a bit because for some reason you only seem to care about the hush agreement, which I don't care about much at all. What I care about is how this impacts Trump, Avenatti has been cited by Anti-Trumpers as a guy who is going to take Trump down, and so that is the context in which I am speaking. I will appreciate your cooperation in the next comment.

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If you haven't been following the news headlines for the last few months, I can't help you. Sorry. You may want to catch up with the rest of the world.

It's no surprise to me that you refuse to make your case. I have been watching the headlines for the last few months, and that's why I know this Avenatti thing is a #NothingBurger. I'm asking you to state your argument and make the case so I can see what you think is at issue. You seem to be quick to attack Trump, but very slow to actually make the case.
 
Oh, you mean the previous lawyer (Keith Davidson) who was secretly working WITH Michael Cohen to reach resolutions to Trump's many "female problems"? That previous lawyer? The same guy who also represented the Playmate (McDougall) who also signed a very Trump-friendly NDA? That guy? You have repeated this talking point a few times now, so I'm just amused I guess. You do know that the previous lawyer in question is also being investigated (and likely to lose his license) for working AGAINST his own clients by secretly being in cahoots with Cohen and Trump while telling his clients that he was representing their best interests, don't you?




Who cares? If Avenatti has tax issues, who cares? For someone who pretends to be impartial, you sure to have a tendency to pick up on all of the major right wing grievances and talking points.



Again, who cares? If Putin himself was funding Avenatti, it wouldn't change the FACTS of the case, would it? How can you present outrageous, totally baseless "hypotheticals" like "what if the DNC is funding Avenatti", and then have the nerve to ask others if they are "interested in the truth"? You're not interested in truth. You're just promoting right wing conspiracy theories....just like every other right wing conspiracy theorist on this board.





What "other shady stuff" would that be? The only "shady stuff" I've seen so far has been the completely shady (as well as unethical and illegal) dealings of the "previous lawyer". You should focus a little more on that, rather than pushing your made-up, crazy right wing conspiracy theories about the "funding" of Michael Avenatti.




Please. One would have to be a fool to give credence to any of your BASELESS conspiracy theories. That's not "sticking your head in the sand"..........that's called being rational and realistic.

1) I don't pretend to be impartial. I'm pro-Trump. I come at it from a different perspective because most people who are pro-Trump are Conservatives, but I am not. I make it clear that I am not, and the standard arguments of attacking a Conservative for being Conservative don't work on me.

2) On the previous lawyer, we'll see what happens, but how ironic is it that Avenatti is also under investigation by the State Bar of California? lol

3) You talk about the facts of the case. I have asked multiple people to state the argument and provide the evidence. There are no facts of the case that prove any sort of wrongdoing of Trump. If there are, provide it. I cannot get anybody to even attempt to provide the facts, yet all of you guys want to cite the "facts" vaguely. Then you weirdly state I'm providing Right Wing conspiracies. I didn't realize asking you to meet the burden of proof was a Right Wing conspiracy. lol
 

Again, you meme, but you fail to state your argument and you fail to provide the evidence to meet the burden of proof. You are quick to meme, though. Imagine my surprise. What is it with you people that you are so quick to cite "facts" in a vague manner but it is impossible to get you to state any of them.
 
It's no surprise to me that you refuse to make your case. I have been watching the headlines for the last few months, and that's why I know this Avenatti thing is a #NothingBurger. I'm asking you to state your argument and make the case so I can see what you think is at issue. You seem to be quick to attack Trump, but very slow to actually make the case.

It's no surprise that I make what case? I'm sorry, but I thought everyone over the age of 5 in the free world knows that Michael Avenatti is Stormy Daniels' attorney. Everyone who posts on here knows it too. Apparently, except you. Listen, please don't troll me. You need to open any one of about 11 million links in the internet that explains to you that Michael Avenatti is her attorney. I can't do it for you. Good luck.
 
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