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Drug companies spend more on advertising than on R&D

independentusa

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...esearch/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.e115c27b453f
I find it interesting that drug companies say they need the money made from high drug prices so they can afford R&D, when in fact they spend more on advertising than they do spend on R&D. I think that our country needs to do as others like Canada and negotiate for the prices paid to drug companies for all drugs sold in the USA. no mater what the payment source. Maybe then people would not have to take the chance on the purity of drugs they buy in Mexico or other low cost countries.
 
This is nothing new and has been like this for a very long time.
Let me ask this from anyone that reads this. Do you really want a doctor to whom you have to tell what to prescribe?
 
This is nothing new and has been like this for a very long time.
Let me ask this from anyone that reads this. Do you really want a doctor to whom you have to tell what to prescribe?

The drug companies have these guys called "sales representatives" that visit the doctors, provide the supportive documentation for new drugs, samples, the whole nine yards. Perhaps you have heard of this concept of the Sales Representative.
 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...esearch/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.e115c27b453f
I find it interesting that drug companies say they need the money made from high drug prices so they can afford R&D, when in fact they spend more on advertising than they do spend on R&D. I think that our country needs to do as others like Canada and negotiate for the prices paid to drug companies for all drugs sold in the USA. no mater what the payment source. Maybe then people would not have to take the chance on the purity of drugs they buy in Mexico or other low cost countries.

They have to generate sales to pay the bills for developing the drug. It's just common sense.
 
They have to generate sales to pay the bills for developing the drug. It's just common sense.

Correction, they have to generate sales to pay the bills for the following, in order from most costly to least costly:

1) Advertising
2) R&D

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[source]
 
Correction, they have to generate sales to pay the bills for the following, in order from most costly to least costly:

1) Advertising
2) R&D

And FDA approval.
 
I've read the tradition is that the government (taxpayers) pays for the basic research, and then Big Pharma produces, distributes, and profits. For many large, important industries, the crux of the business has become to perpetuate that situation.

I'm sure that was the best way to do things at one time, but there is nothing more creative than a Capitalist thinking up how to fatten their profit margins.

It's evolved from a mechanism to band together to pay for massive research projects to yield important results into a group of companies buying political influence to make sure the research money keeps flowing, regardless of the results.
 
Of Course sales and marketing might include the incentives paid or provided to doctors who
recommend their new fix for whatever ails you.
 
Of Course sales and marketing might include the incentives paid or provided to doctors who
recommend their new fix for whatever ails you.

I thought we called those bribes
 
Rubric article from the OP.
I find it interesting that drug companies say they need the money made from high drug prices so they can afford R&D, when in fact they spend more on advertising than they do spend on R&D. I think that our country needs to do as others like Canada and negotiate for the prices paid to drug companies for all drugs sold in the USA. no mater what the payment source. Maybe then people would not have to take the chance on the purity of drugs they buy in Mexico or other low cost countries.

  1. Advertising --> It's for years been astounding to me that prescription drug makers even bother with pricey (as opposed to not pricey at all) advertising, other than what one might call "image" ads. Often enough the meds advertised offer a solution for which a perfectly fine, and free too boot, non-medical solution exists. Medications to manage weight gain/loss and to manage belching are two examples. "Eating right" and/or exercising will resolve such things. Moreover, such ads tend to stigmatize natural processes associated with being a living organism. For example, "low T" and erectile dysfunction. There're perfectly good/natural reasons why a male in his dotage shouldn't be physically capable of siring offspring: he's past the point of being able (in a natural world context) providing for and protecting them, thus such a male's impregnating a young female is an inefficient use of the female and her resources/energy.



    There's no question that meds in the U.S. cost far more than in other OECD nations, and from the above it appears that advertising contributes materially to that being so.
In light of the above, it seems to me that not only do DTC ad increase our costs for meds, they mislead consumers. I think the U.S. should follow the model of other nations and prohibit DTC ads for prescription meds.
 
....Maybe then people would not have to take the chance on the purity of drugs they buy in Mexico or other low cost countries.
???? What?

Relative to the U.S., pretty much every country is a "low cost country" with regard to prescription medication prices. Do you think other OECD countries like Canada, the UK, France, Switzerland, etc. are high risk places for purchasing medications? I sure don't.
 
And FDA approval.

I expect that is part of R&D

I am sure another Thalidimide is not something people would like to occur again or another Fen Phen
 
I've read the tradition is that the government (taxpayers) pays for the basic research, and then Big Pharma produces, distributes, and profits. For many large, important industries, the crux of the business has become to perpetuate that situation.

I'm sure that was the best way to do things at one time, but there is nothing more creative than a Capitalist thinking up how to fatten their profit margins.

It's evolved from a mechanism to band together to pay for massive research projects to yield important results into a group of companies buying political influence to make sure the research money keeps flowing, regardless of the results.

I haven't read that. Please do share your sources.
 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...esearch/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.e115c27b453f
I find it interesting that drug companies say they need the money made from high drug prices so they can afford R&D, when in fact they spend more on advertising than they do spend on R&D. I think that our country needs to do as others like Canada and negotiate for the prices paid to drug companies for all drugs sold in the USA. no mater what the payment source. Maybe then people would not have to take the chance on the purity of drugs they buy in Mexico or other low cost countries.

Well, marketing is necessary for selling your products, particularly when there are competitors. You need sales reps to get doctors to know about your product.

I wish they would make it illegal for direct to consumer marketing, those TV commercials.

A more honest comparison is to look at other industries and see what their percentage of marketing and R and D is, I would bet marketing is a lot more than R and D for all industries

It should be noted, there have been many products that were great inventions, worked great, but never made money becausew it wasn't marketed or there wasn't a big enough market need. So its not all just about R&D , marketing is equally as vital

https://www.fiercepharma.com/regulatory/does-pharma-spend-more-on-marketing-than-r-d-a-numbers-check

SG&A is a sort of catch-all category that does include sales and marketing expenses, including sales salaries, support and so on. But it also includes legal and accounting fees, rent and utilities. In an annual industry audit, Pharmaceutical Executive notes that sales and marketing is a "relatively low portion of SG&A."
so marketing category really is a bunch of things


I thought we called those bribes


And it is now illegal, or at least hospitals/universities are not allowing their doctors to take anything from a rep. It's not like the old days
 
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I haven't read that. Please do share your sources.

I originally encountered it some time ago in Noam Chomsky's writing. These days they refer to it as "Chomsky trade" which tries to predict future stock raises based on what basic research the federal government is funding.

Apparently it's recently (2013) dropped to under 50% government funding of basic research, so it may be less true today than it has been for the last 60 years or so (it was over 70% through the 60s and 70s.) It's still a great deal of public investment for private benefit, and it still creates the situation I describe where the business model becomes chasing public funding for your unprofitable research, and then leveraging it to the hilt for private profit.

Now that private companies are (sorta kinda) picking up their own tab, no doubt all the taxpayer-funded freebies will be reciprocated.

Couple links:

Editorial on Chomsky trade

On the more recent trends
 
This is nothing new and has been like this for a very long time.
Let me ask this from anyone that reads this. Do you really want a doctor to whom you have to tell what to prescribe?

The adveretising isn't for the doctor, he gets this kind of info straight from the company. Most of the ads are like the ones we see time and time again on TV>
 
I've read the tradition is that the government (taxpayers) pays for the basic research, and then Big Pharma produces, distributes, and profits. For many large, important industries, the crux of the business has become to perpetuate that situation.

I'm sure that was the best way to do things at one time, but there is nothing more creative than a Capitalist thinking up how to fatten their profit margins.

It's evolved from a mechanism to band together to pay for massive research projects to yield important results into a group of companies buying political influence to make sure the research money keeps flowing, regardless of the results.
I haven't read that. Please do share your sources.

TY for the links. I understand now what you had in mind.


I originally encountered it some time ago in Noam Chomsky's writing. These days they refer to it as "Chomsky trade" which tries to predict future stock raises based on what basic research the federal government is funding.

Apparently it's recently (2013) dropped to under 50% government funding of basic research, so it may be less true today than it has been for the last 60 years or so (it was over 70% through the 60s and 70s.) It's still a great deal of public investment for private benefit, and it still creates the situation I describe where the business model becomes chasing public funding for your unprofitable research, and then leveraging it to the hilt for private profit.

Now that private companies are (sorta kinda) picking up their own tab, no doubt all the taxpayer-funded freebies will be reciprocated.

From the "Data Check" article:

NSF defines basic research as “activity aimed at acquiring new knowledge or understanding without specific immediate commercial application or use.” In contrast, it says applied research is “aimed at solving a specific problem or meeting a specific commercial objective.”

The U.S. pharmaceutical industry is the major driver behind the recent jump in corporate basic research, according to NSF’s annual Business Research and Development and Innovation Survey (BRDIS), which tracks the research activities of 46,000 companies. Drug company investment in basic research soared from $3 billion in 2008 to $8.1 billion in 2014, according to the most recent NSF data by business sector. Spending on basic research by all U.S. businesses nearly doubled over that same period, from $13.9 billion to $24.5 billion.

Basic research comprises only about one-sixth of the country’s spending on all types of R&D, which totaled $499 billion in 2015. Applied makes up another one-sixth, whereas the majority, some $316 billion, is development. Almost all of that is funded by industry and done inhouse, as companies try to convert basic research into new drugs, products, and technologies that they hope will generate profits. (The pharmaceutical and biotech industry, for example, spent a total of $102 billion on research and development in 2015, according to Research!America, an Arlington, Virginia–based advocacy group.)

Combining the above with my understanding of how the research grant process works (see also: The Grants Process at the National Science Foundation and the National Institutes of Health), along with the long and expensive road from theoretical (science sense of the word) research, aka "basic" research, and having something implementable, I'm not ready to concur with the iniquitous/vitiative context implicit in your remarks (red text above) above.


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p-276-1.jpg


After all, the lion's share of basic research funding goes to colleges and university professors (thus their institutions).



main-qimg-3099e048b8d97f6922b5b2c0e2c64774-c


Do scholars converse with business principals to identify areas of common interest and in turn submit research proposals that align with their shared interests and one or more opportunities grantors have announced? Of course, they do, but the process of doing so doesn't have the "shady" intents your remarks imply.
 
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