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What has happened to Christianity in the USA

veritas1 said:
And John Kerry voted for the Iraq war and then said he voted against it. Obama flip flopped on abortion and gay marriage as well. Changing your position to suit the needs of the moment is nothing new.
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Oh come on. Nothing compared to 5 deferment cadet bone spurs. He takes 5 positions on an issue every day. A narcissistic asshole if there ever was one.
 
ataraxia said:
Several generations? Yeah, I guess all the way back to the founding of this country:



There you go: the principal author of the Constitution of this country, trashing the religious in favor of a decent system of secular government. This tradition is nothing new. It goes back pretty far.
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Where did I say we shouldn't have secular government? That's not the issue here at all. The government the founders established is a good one. The problem is that, over 200 years, it has gathered more and more power to itself nowhere specified in the Constitution. Yet, people support it and clamor for more to be given to it. That is the road to serfdom. Also, calling for spiritual renewal among the people is hardly tantamount to advocating against secular government. I've never suggested that anywhere or at any time.
 
Dittohead not! said:
The only good Indian is a dead Indian.
Whites only.
No Japs allowed.
Come to the slave auction!
Gay man beaten, no one cares
Will women ever get the right to vote?


All in the past.

No, our best days are ahead. No time has been as good as today, but tomorrow, if we don't mess it up, will be better.
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You are conflating political progress with moral virtue. They are two different things. While equal rights are a good thing, we can have them and still be a morally corrupt people. I would contend that we are more divided, nastier and self absorbed than ever. Yet, we think that just one or two more laws will solve our problems. They won't. When families are destroyed and we're turning out millions of fatherless kids, when divorce is rampant, illegitimacy is rampant, etc. we can hardly be said to be making great progress.
 
Fearandloathing said:
..and your sources on this are what?

This is the problem with righties, you're all opinion. And in this case we are faced with hyperbole of a disgusting nature, rather like a hound dog baying at the moon. You all think you're always right, but would never deign to read a dissenting opinion.



Sorry but you just described the United States. And who are you to determine "moral values"? From that post I doubt I would consider any of your values for anything. It's filled with hate ffs.

Progress will not be stopped. Don't have a coronary but next year Canada will expand its medical benefits program along with a number of European nations. You go on arming each other against each other via the dumbest ****ing law in the universe while the rest of the world ensures a 'healthy state" instead of a self serving **** hole
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Gee, imagine anyone having opinions on a political forum. I also never claimed to hate anyone. That's your stock response for any conservative position you don't like and are unable to respond to in a logical manner. BTW, I read a ton of dissenting opinions. I'm reading yours, am I not? Again, that's the nature of a forum. As for facts on what I'm saying, what was the divorce rate for all people in the US in 1950? What was the illegitimacy rate? What is it now? Strong families are the backbone of a nation no matter what liberals say and we have been destroying ours. Oh, and don't come back with the blabber about civil rights in 1950. That is not the issue here. The issue is what we are doing to ourselves as a society. A nation is defined by what it values and we have been placing less and less value on the things that truly matter. Sure, we can pass more and more laws but that does not make us better as a people. It is window dressing.
 
veritas1 said:
You are conflating political progress with moral virtue. They are two different things. While equal rights are a good thing, we can have them and still be a morally corrupt people. I would contend that we are more divided, nastier and self absorbed than ever. Yet, we think that just one or two more laws will solve our problems. They won't. When families are destroyed and we're turning out millions of fatherless kids, when divorce is rampant, illegitimacy is rampant, etc. we can hardly be said to be making great progress.
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The breakdown of the nuclear family is a huge problem in the modern world, on that we agree.
The examples I mentioned are not just politically evil, they are morally evil as well.
 
veritas1 said:
Where did I say we shouldn't have secular government? That's not the issue here at all. The government the founders established is a good one. The problem is that, over 200 years, it has gathered more and more power to itself nowhere specified in the Constitution.
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We don't live in an 18th century agrarian society anymore. The country is bigger and more complex. The world is bigger and more complex. Science and technology are exploding. This all requires a competent and decent system of management, oversight, and regulation. If we went back to 18th century medicine, namely just tying a tourniquet around sick people's arms, cutting a vein and bleeding them into a basin (didn't matter what their problem really was. Who really knew anyway?), then I bet you we could really cut healthcare costs. We could get rid of the air force too, not to mention NASA (I don't see them mentioned anywhere in the Constitution). This was a pre-industrial society, so they had no anti-trust laws. There was no protection of intellectual property. But we could make government regulation less burdensome by getting rid of those too. Illiteracy rate in colonial American was well over 60%. If we are OK with that, we could really cut costs there too. There were no drugs or pharmaceuticals, and getting sick and dying because you ate tainted meat was a minor, and common, problem. No one cared. That was the least of anyone's problems. If you are OK to go back to that, we could easily get rid of the FDA, the USDA, and a couple of other departments too. And if the biggest firearms available were front loading muskets, we could get rid of all gun regulations too. Then we could have a small government again just like we used to.

But do you really think that's how America would be great again? A small, weak, anemic, incompetent government designed for a pre-industrial, agrarian, 18th century world, trying to compete in the technologically advanced, cut-throat, and highly complex global society of the 21st century?
 
veritas1 said:
...We progress in medicine, science, technology, etc. while becoming ever more divided, isolated, antagonistic, cruel, self serving, greedy and broken as people. Then we look to legislation to somehow fix our moral ills. It won't work. It can't work. Without spiritual renewal, we will ultimately destroy ourselves.
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I agree all of society needs a new spirit to arise amongst the people. Government won't bring spiritual change, nor will religious revival. It germinates small, on an individual basis, just one person caring about something or someone, and grows to a revival of community. That may or may not involve a church, synagogue, or mosque. The spirit arises from the Godliness in our core being.
 
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ataraxia said:
We don't live in an 18th century agrarian society anymore. The country is bigger and more complex. The world is bigger and more complex. Science and technology are exploding. This all requires a competent and decent system of management, oversight, and regulation. If we went back to 18th century medicine, namely just tying a tourniquet around sick people's arms, cutting a vein and bleeding them into a basin (didn't matter what their problem really was. Who really knew anyway?), then I bet you we could really cut healthcare costs. We could get rid of the air force too, not to mention NASA (I don't see them mentioned anywhere in the Constitution). This was a pre-industrial society, so they had no anti-trust laws. There was no protection of intellectual property. But we could make government regulation less burdensome by getting rid of those too. Illiteracy rate in colonial American was well over 60%. If we are OK with that, we could really cut costs there too. There were no drugs or pharmaceuticals, and getting sick and dying because you ate tainted meat was a minor, and common, problem. No one cared. That was the least of anyone's problems. If you are OK to go back to that, we could easily get rid of the FDA, the USDA, and a couple of other departments too. And if the biggest firearms available were front loading muskets, we could get rid of all gun regulations too. Then we could have a small government again just like we used to.

But do you really think that's how America would be great again? A small, weak, anemic, incompetent government designed for a pre-industrial, agrarian, 18th century world, trying to compete in the technologically advanced, cut-throat, and highly complex global society of the 21st century?
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We hardly have to go back to the 18th century in order not to bestow government with more powers than it is wise to give them. The founders set up a system based on diffused power with a few things being the province of the Federal government and the rest devolving upon the states. That we have had advances in science, medicine and business and that the world is more complex, is not an excuse to give away our freedoms. Nobody is talking about getting rid of the FDA, the EPA, the military or the school system, at least nobody who is taken seriously.

The issue is how much power various agencies should have and how much they should encroach on state and local governments or on citizens directly. That the federal government has become an all powerful behemoth, is hardly in question. Ironically, one the areas that is clearly its responsibility is immigration enforcement yet people argue for the right of places like CA to thwart its successful completion. These same people then argue for all sorts of other Federal encroachments. It's highly hypocritical.
 
veritas1 said:
We hardly have to go back to the 18th century in order not to bestow government with more powers than it is wise to give them. The founders set up a system based on diffused power with a few things being the province of the Federal government and the rest devolving upon the states. That we have had advances in science, medicine and business and that the world is more complex, is not an excuse to give away our freedoms. Nobody is talking about getting rid of the FDA, the EPA, the military or the school system, at least nobody who is taken seriously.
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What are you talking about? You just elected someone to the presidency to go blow up the EPA. And you elected congressmen that you could be sure would stand out of his way as he goes around dismantling those agencies. The EPA, for all practical purposes, is already blown to smithereens. As is the state department. There were departing scientists at the EPA who were taking screen shots of the scientific data on their computers before they left because they knew it was going to all get scrubbed, Big Brother style. They were hoping to save it in case anyone is ever interested in the data in the future again.

The Centers of Disease Control are similarly being turned into a joke. Very Big Brother style. I am sure you heard that the scientists and doctors there were banned from using seven words. Do you know what those words are?

On the list are "vulnerable," "diversity," "entitlement," "transgender," "fetus," "evidence-based," and "science-based." Seriously. This is like asking McDonald's workers to never utter the words "hamburger" and "French fries". This is a joke. Your country's government is being turned into a joke. And you are cheering it on.

This is a democracy. And people get what they want. And deserve.
 
ataraxia said:
What are you talking about? You just elected someone to the presidency to go blow up the EPA. And you elected congressmen that you could be sure would stand out of his way as he goes around dismantling those agencies. The EPA, for all practical purposes, is already blown to smithereens. As is the state department. There were departing scientists at the EPA who were taking screen shots of the scientific data on their computers before they left because they knew it was going to all get scrubbed, Big Brother style. They were hoping to save it in case anyone is ever interested in the data in the future again.

The Centers of Disease Control are similarly being turned into a joke. Very Big Brother style. I am sure you heard that the scientists and doctors there were banned from using seven words. Do you know what those words are?

On the list are "vulnerable," "diversity," "entitlement," "transgender," "fetus," "evidence-based," and "science-based." Seriously. This is like asking McDonald's workers to never utter the words "hamburger" and "French fries". This is a joke. Your country's government is being turned into a joke. And you are cheering it on.

This is a democracy. And people get what they want. And deserve.
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I'm not cheering on anything nor am I privy to everything happening at the EPA or the CDC. Also, while I agree that no words should be banned, I find it amusing that the same people who want to create new pronouns and talk of microaggressions and ban all sorts of words and phrases they don't like, are upset about this. Maybe now they're figuring out how the rest of us feel about it.

Don't believe everything peddled by the neverTrumpers, either.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/11/health/cdc-word-ban-hhs-document/index.html
 
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