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Cooperating Witnesses in the Mueller Investigation

trouble13 said:
Im not thd one pretending to know, you are, so why don't you tell us what he gave them. You know it's also possible that both sides are not confident they can win and rather than risk losing, they struck a deal.

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk
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I never said I knew what he gave them. I simply explained how it classically works when a smaller fish gives up the big one in exchange for a deal. And Flynn and others took the deal so we have to start looking at those up the food chain.
 
haymarket said:
irrelevent since from the previously cited authority this reduces it to nonsense
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Besides being wrong as already shown, you again show you do not understand.

No information has yet been obtained from the prior individual investigations that have made Trump a criminal target.
Do you really not understand the significance of that?
That also means there was no flipping as you absurdly claimed.

That is what we have at this point.


haymarket said:
That trumps every single thing you said in your post.
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iLOL
Wrong. It does not trump the argument I made.


haymarket said:
But you are obsessed with what somebody called Trump on one day of a long investigation. Its like you are fixated on who led at 3:45 of the first quarter of a NBA basketball game and only want to pretend that is the whole game. Its totally irrational on your part.
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Wrong as usual and still not getting it.


haymarket said:
You have no knowledge of any of this since the investigation is still continuing.
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Wrong! We do have knowledge of this, as that is exactly what we have been told when it was reported that Trump is not a criminal target.

Again.
If substantial evidence of a crime committed by Trump had been found during the prior investigations of others, Trump would be a criminal target. Trump currently not being a criminal target means no such evidence was found in the past year. There is no way around that.


haymarket said:
Do you really think that when Mueller makes a deal with people like Flynn and others that they are not being flipped?
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Your question supports a lack of logic in your thoughts.

Absent actual information of a flip that is exactly what it means.

Maybe you just do not know what the term flipped means?
Cooperating truthfully with a Prosecutor does not mean they flipped.
Having secret knowledge of a crime by another person and revealing that to the Prosecutor would be flipping on them.
Such flipping would be "substantial evidence" of a crime and make the other person a criminal target, but as we know at this point, Trump is not a criminal target.

So how in the world do you think Flynn, who has already accepted a plea could have flipped on Trump (provided Mueller with evidence of a crime committed by Trump) when we know that Trump is not a criminal target.
Huh?
It is not possible given what we know. Had Flynn provided evidence of a crime in regards to Trump, he would be a criminal target. Yet we know he is not.


haymarket said:
That is the very essence of the entire procedure. Little fish give up bigger fish until they get to the highest and biggest fish possible. And you will only know who that is when they finish and announce the results. Until that happens - its just you being you - which as I have stated is you being irrational and living in denial of reality.
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No, this is what you pinned your absurd thoughts in. Just because a prosecutor may be looking for incriminating evidence on another person does not mean there is any to obtain (which is where this discourse began), nor does a plea indicate that any was obtained. It is nothing more than your wishful thinking.


haymarket said:
I never said I knew what he gave them. I simply explained how it classically works when a smaller fish gives up the big one in exchange for a deal. And Flynn and others took the deal so we have to start looking at those up the food chain.
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iLOL! No.
 
Excon said:
Why are you continuing to post nonsense?

Do you really not understand that their not being anything to flip on is as much possibility, or are you like the rest of the left who believes there absolutely is?
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I have no idea what you just said but you replied to a week old post. All I said was that you were (and maybe still are) pretending you've followed his career. The words "flip" or any content related to the possibility of illegal actions in relation to laundering money or any other criminal actions are not in my posts. In other words, you're talking nonsense to a wall.

But I'll answer your question: I think Cohen has the moral standing and behavior of a member of the mafia. If that is true, he's a criminal.
 
RedFishBlueFish said:
Cooperating Witnesses in the Mueller Investigation

Michael Flynn – Flynn was in contact with Russian Ambassador Kislyak and lied to the FBI regarding lessening sanctions for Russia cyber-espionage activity. He admitted to being in contact with senior campaign officials before and after the conversation with Kislyak. Flynn worked with the Trump campaign for a significant period of time and probably has spilled lots of dirty little secrets.

Rick Gates – Gates was Manafort’s right-hand-man for two decades and was aware of and participated in many of Manafort’s criminal activities and knew all of Manafort’s ties to Russia and Russian contacts. Of course, the Mueller team is using this information to pressure Manafort. But it is what is known about the Trump campaign that may be the most damaging to Trump. Both Manafort and Gates were on the campaign when the platform was changed at the Republican convention. He was on the campaign while Papadopoulos and Carter Page were flying all over Europe to try and connect Russian intelligence and officials with the Trump Campaign. And Gates was there when the Genius Junior Trump Tower meeting took place which Manafort attended. What did Manafort tell Gates, his long time associate? What did Gates know about the stolen emails and when they would be released?

George Papadopoulos – Papadopoulos was the first person to cooperate with Mueller. Did he wear a wire and/or record conversations with Trump or his personnel in between the time he began cooperating and his situation became public? The more dirt Papadopoulos can give the lesser his sentence will be. Of course he will also know who exactly knew what about his trip(s) to Europe and what approval he had from who on the Trump team.

George Nader - George Nader was stopped and questioned by the FBI at Dulles International Airport in January. Since then, he has been talking to Mueller's investigators and providing information to the grand jury. Nader attended a December 2016 meeting in New York between Emirati officials and members of Trump's inner circle, and another in January 2017 in the Seychelles islands between the Emiratis and Erik Prince, a Trump associate. Nader was also in the Seychelles when Prince met with a Russian banker. The Muller Team’s questions about the Emiratis point to an investigation that has expanded beyond Russian meddling in the 2016 election to broader concerns about foreign influence during the presidential campaign and long after it concluded. The Washington Post reported that at least four countries, including the United Arab Emirates, have discussed ways they could compromise Jared Kushner, the President's son-in-law.

Michael Cohen – TBD. Will he flip and become a cooperating witness? Who knows what skeletons Cohen has in his closet. Lots, I bet.
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This is amazing conversation and discussion we are having and actually extends to the Media and news....

Everyone is talking about the FLIP or no FLIP. That is insane. Flipping means you have some incriminating evidence against someone or first hand knowledge of some illegal activity, but are you willing to out him!
So basically it is generally accepted that Trump has done some illegal activity....But that is not the issue, the "BIG" issue is if he will be outed!

OMG is this current state of our government???...We know we a have a president that is a crook and it is accepted knowledge and norm by both Republicans and Democrats, the big challenge is to see who can be turned over to rat him out?

Really??? Then he is really a MOB boos!

Diving Mullah
 
Excon said:
Besides being wrong as already shown, you again show you do not understand.
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You are the one who clearly does not understand that the placing of a label - be it witness, subject or target - at this day on Trump is meaningless and I gave you an authoritative site which told you that in no uncertain terms.

Trying to discuss this with you is no different that trying to tell a person inside an institution that they are NOT Napoleon despite their professed affection for their horse Josephine or their penchant for posing with hand inside jacket lapel.

https://www.duffylawct.com/whats-the-difference-federal-target-subject-witness/

Even though your status as a witness, subject or target may be important in guiding your strategy during a particular phase of a federal white collar crime investigation, the key thing to remember about these categories is that they are ultimately meaningless and offer you no protection. Why? Because even if you’re currently a witness or subject, there’s no guarantee that your status will remain unchanged.
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That trumps any single thing you have said regarding the importance of your delusions about Trump being a target or not a target at any point in time while the investigation is still in progress.
 
Diving Mullah said:
This is amazing conversation and discussion we are having and actually extends to the Media and news....

Everyone is talking about the FLIP or no FLIP. That is insane. Flipping means you have some incriminating evidence against someone or first hand knowledge of some illegal activity, but are you willing to out him!
So basically it is generally accepted that Trump has done some illegal activity....But that is not the issue, the "BIG" issue is if he will be outed!

OMG is this current state of our government???...We know we a have a president that is a crook and it is accepted knowledge and norm by both Republicans and Democrats, the big challenge is to see who can be turned over to rat him out?

Really??? Then he is really a MOB boos!

Diving Mullah
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Good post. It is amazing.
 
Excon said:
Besides being wrong as already shown, you again show you do not understand.

No information has yet been obtained from the prior individual investigations that have made Trump a criminal target.
Do you really not understand the significance of that?
That also means there was no flipping as you absurdly claimed.

That is what we have at this point.


iLOL
Wrong. It does not trump the argument I made.


Wrong as usual and still not getting it.


Wrong! We do have knowledge of this, as that is exactly what we have been told when it was reported that Trump is not a criminal target.

Again.
If substantial evidence of a crime committed by Trump had been found during the prior investigations of others, Trump would be a criminal target. Trump currently not being a criminal target means no such evidence was found in the past year. There is no way around that.


Your question supports a lack of logic in your thoughts.

Absent actual information of a flip that is exactly what it means.

Maybe you just do not know what the term flipped means?
Cooperating truthfully with a Prosecutor does not mean they flipped.
Having secret knowledge of a crime by another person and revealing that to the Prosecutor would be flipping on them.
Such flipping would be "substantial evidence" of a crime and make the other person a criminal target, but as we know at this point, Trump is not a criminal target.

So how in the world do you think Flynn, who has already accepted a plea could have flipped on Trump (provided Mueller with evidence of a crime committed by Trump) when we know that Trump is not a criminal target.
Huh?
It is not possible given what we know. Had Flynn provided evidence of a crime in regards to Trump, he would be a criminal target. Yet we know he is not.


No, this is what you pinned your absurd thoughts in. Just because a prosecutor may be looking for incriminating evidence on another person does not mean there is any to obtain (which is where this discourse began), nor does a plea indicate that any was obtained. It is nothing more than your wishful thinking.


iLOL! No.
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Oh that is so cute that you are willing to go through those contortions to convince yourself that your hero scar scalp is free and clear...

As I have asked before, have you ever been told that that you were a target of an ongoing investigation?

The answer is no, because no one ever has, regardless whether they were or not.
 
Mustachio said:
... but you replied to a week old post.
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I responded to a post that was three days old, not a week.
But if the extent of your ability to remember is a factor I understand your consternation.

As this one is a response to a five day old post, unlike others, I hope you do not have memory problems which would be an issue.


Mustachio said:
All I said was that you were (and maybe still are) pretending you've followed his career.
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Of course you are wrong, no one pretended anything.
That was all made up in your own ridiculous thoughts.


Mustachio said:
The words "flip" or any content related to the possibility of illegal actions in relation to laundering money or any other criminal actions are not in my posts. In other words, you're talking nonsense to a wall.
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That is you speaking about Cohen in relation to what I said about those who came before.
That is your failure in not understanding that.


Mustachio said:
But I'll answer your question: I think Cohen has the moral standing and behavior of a member of the mafia. If that is true, he's a criminal.
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You are not answering any question of mine but are instead deflecting.


Again.
Do you really not understand that their not being anything to flip on is as much possibility, or are you like the rest of the left who believes there absolutely is?




haymarket said:
You are the one who clearly does not understand that the placing of a label - be it witness, subject or target - at this day on Trump is meaningless
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Wrong.

haymarket said:
and I gave you an authoritative site which told you that in no uncertain terms.
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iLOl
You sought out an authoritative site when you were told you didn't understand what the term target meant.
You still do not understand it in reference to the comment.


haymarket said:
Trying to discuss this with you is no different that trying to tell a person inside an institution that they are NOT Napoleon despite their professed affection for their horse Josephine or their penchant for posing with hand inside jacket lapel.
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You are projecting.

https://www.duffylawct.com/whats-the-difference-federal-target-subject-witness/
Even though your status as a witness, subject or target may be important in guiding your strategy during a particular phase of a federal white collar crime investigation, the key thing to remember about these categories is that they are ultimately meaningless and offer you no protection. Why? Because even if you’re currently a witness or subject, there’s no guarantee that your status will remain unchanged.
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Yes, you clearly do not understand what that means or how it is irrelevant to the argument here as it has been repeatedly explained to you.

Here it is again.
Excon said:
Again.
If substantial evidence of a crime committed by Trump had been found during the prior investigations of others, Trump would be a criminal target. Trump currently not being a criminal target means no such evidence was found in the past year. There is no way around that.
Click to expand...


haymarket said:
That trumps any single thing you have said regarding the importance of your delusions about Trump being a target or not a target at any point in time while the investigation is still in progress.
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Wrong as usual haymarket.
As you have already been told, this argument is not about what may come from future investigation, but about none having come from the prior investigations (hence the fact that he is not a target) and thus you being wrong in all your previous comments about possible flipping.


Apparently you do not understand that had someone flipped, or just cooperated and revealed incriminating information to Mueller about Trump, he would actually be a target.
 
GDViking said:
Oh that is so cute that you are willing to go through those contortions to convince yourself that your hero scar scalp is free and clear...
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How cute that you post nothing of substance in relation to what you quote.
Those contortions are all yours.


GDViking said:
As I have asked before, have you ever been told that that you were a target of an ongoing investigation?

The answer is no, because no one ever has, regardless whether they were or not.
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Your comment here is stupid, especially as the information posted previously proves your contention wrong.

As the previously supplied CBS article reported.
"If federal prosecutors want to bring you in to testify before a grand jury, and you are under investigation -- considered to have possibly committed a crime -- [highlight]you are sent what is called a 'target letter[/highlight],'" Reid said. "You are put on notice that you are a target of this investigation, and whatever has been unearthed in this investigation suggests you may have committed a crime."​
 
haymarket said:
I do not expect Cohen to flip. He strikes me as part True Believer in the Divinity of the Holy Savior Trump and part just too stupid to know what is in his own best interests.

If he did flip however, Trumps ass is grass as we used to say decades ago.
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I think if Cohen flipped he'd be in fear of another Russian induced balcony falling "accident".
 
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Fearandloathing said:
So what are you all so ****ing afraid of?

The American right has been turning itself inside out in the most hypocritical campaign I've ever seen in my life trying to stop, discredit or some way bet Trump out from under criminal investigations in any way possible.

Then mount a massive, organized campaign to tell us 'there's nothing there."

You can't have it both ways; panicking on one front and claiming 'nothingburger' on the other.

And on that note, if there is nothing there, what are all these people 'co-operating' about?
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They somehow fear a "DEEEEEEEPP STAAAAAAATE!!!!!!" that is also full of and run by republicans and republican appointees.
 
Excon said:
Wrong as usual haymarket.
As you have already been told, this argument is not about what may come from future investigation, but about none having come from the prior investigations (hence the fact that he is not a target) and thus you being wrong in all your previous comments about possible flipping.


Apparently you do not understand that had someone flipped, or just cooperated and revealed incriminating information to Mueller about Trump, he would actually be a target.
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When a person lower on the food chain is offered a sweet deal to cooperate with the government, what exactly do you think is the incentive and motivation for this sweet deal?
 
Excon said:
I responded to a post that was three days old, not a week.
But if the extent of your ability to remember is a factor I understand your consternation.

As this one is a response to a five day old post, unlike others, I hope you do not have memory problems which would be an issue.

That is you speaking about Cohen in relation to what I said about those who came before.
That is your failure in not understanding that.

You are not answering any question of mine but are instead deflecting.
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I was rear ended at 60 mph two days before that post and I'm in, and was in, unspeakable pain. I'm really sorry I said a three day old post was a week old.

Why are you asking me a question regarding a topic I did not address? Will Cohen flip? I don't know. I remember the Sopranos and Goodfellas and he'd probably take the jail time over being shot on a boat. So I don't know why you asked me, but I think he'd flip. So I answered your question. Have you been asked and have you answered this question: do you acknowledge that Cohen is a career criminal?

Or was the question is there the possibility there is nothing to "flip" on? No. He's a career criminal. There could be nothing related to Trump besides the Stormy Daniels thing, but I don't care enough about that to even know what the charge would be because Trump legally laundered money throughout his entire life.
 
haymarket said:
When a person lower on the food chain is offered a sweet deal to cooperate with the government, what exactly do you think is the incentive and motivation for this sweet deal?
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Deflective nonsense, especially as you can not show anyone has been offered a "sweet" deal, let alone any deal.




Mustachio said:
Why are you asking me a question regarding a topic I did not address?
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So what you are saying is that you can not follow and that leads you to make a false statement. Figures.


Mustachio said:
Will Cohen flip? I don't know. I remember the Sopranos and Goodfellas and he'd probably take the jail time over being shot on a boat. So I don't know why you asked me, but I think he'd flip. So I answered your question.
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No you haven't.
You haven't shown there is anything to flip on.


Mustachio said:
Or was the question is there the possibility there is nothing to "flip" on? No. He's a career criminal. There could be nothing related to Trump besides the Stormy Daniels thing, but I don't care enough about that to even know what the charge would be because Trump legally laundered money throughout his entire life.
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Dumb. Just dumb. You have not shown there is any information to flip on in order to be able to flip in the first place.
 
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