Cohen raid. Strange response?

Last week Cohen's law office was raided; documents, computers, phones, and other materials were seized.

I think we can agree there had to be strong evidence to obtain such a warrant as well as evidence that Cohen could not be trusted to hand over required materials voluntarily.

What is amazing has been the response.

I know if my lawyer's office was raided, and I am certain if your lawyer's office was raided, your response would be: Wow. I wonder if he/she is into something criminal?
I would not be the least bit concerned that evidence of my complicity would be discovered.

Yet, on television, we hear that if Cohen ends up with charges laid, where he is facing 20+ years, he might flip. It is all about how loyal will Cohen remain?
If Cohen flips, Trump could be in real trouble, we hear. The assumption is Trump is a criminal.

How far has America gone when the assumption is the President is/has been involved in criminal activity. The question is, will it all come out, or will he dodge the bullet, perhaps through use of Pardons?

Why isn't the response: "The President's attorney may have committed a crime. Trump may have to get a new lawyer"

I was pretty much convinced over 20 years ago that Trump is a criminal, and that was giving him over 10 years of the benefit to the doubt.

So, needless to say, I was under the impression that Trump is a criminal ~3 decades ago; why?
Because I was paying attention when most everyone else wasn't.

What's worse is the fact that Trump suffers from multiple personality disorders, is immoral, cannot keep a vow, is a sexual pervert, an egocentric, and those are just his good attributes.

Let's just say Americans likely could not have chosen a worse candidate to occupy The Oval Office & to have nukes.

Good ****ing luck America & the world; you gonna needs itz.

I don't care what happens to trump, as long as he takes the left down with him, and so far, he's doing what he can to accomplish that.

rjay said:

Last week Cohen's law office was raided; documents, computers, phones, and other materials were seized.

I think we can agree there had to be strong evidence to obtain such a warrant as well as evidence that Cohen could not be trusted to hand over required materials voluntarily.

What is amazing has been the response.

I know if my lawyer's office was raided, and I am certain if your lawyer's office was raided, your response would be: Wow. I wonder if he/she is into something criminal?
I would not be the least bit concerned that evidence of my complicity would be discovered.

Yet, on television, we hear that if Cohen ends up with charges laid, where he is facing 20+ years, he might flip. It is all about how loyal will Cohen remain?
If Cohen flips, Trump could be in real trouble, we hear. The assumption is Trump is a criminal.

How far has America gone when the assumption is the President is/has been involved in criminal activity. The question is, will it all come out, or will he dodge the bullet, perhaps through use of Pardons?

Why isn't the response: "The President's attorney may have committed a crime. Trump may have to get a new lawyer"

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Cohen's practice is in civil law, he started out as a personal injury lawyer (Torts), what some people call "ambulance chasers." He then moved on into business (Contracts) and Property Law. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Cohen_(lawyer)

Torts, Contract law and Property law are subjects of White Collar crime:

Reportedly coined in 1939, the term white-collar crime is now synonymous with the full range of frauds committed by business and government professionals. These crimes are characterized by deceit, concealment, or violation of trust and are not dependent on the application or threat of physical force or violence. The motivation behind these crimes is financial—to obtain or avoid losing money, property, or services or to secure a personal or business advantage.

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https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/white-collar-crime

When it comes to money, IMO everyone eventually develops some skeletons in their closets as they get older.

For example, how many Forum members have had a car accident and sought recovery for exaggerated injury (ex. "Whiplash") via "contingency fee" legal services? Where you don't pay unless you win, and then it is shared out this way: 1/3 to the attorney (plus costs), 1/3 to some Chiropractor, and slightly less than 1/3 (deductions for court costs and other "expenses") to you? Insurance company pays, then passes the costs onto their customers. IMO the biggest (but not the only) scam in the torts market.

How about consulting with a property attorney or a tax attorney in order to finagle property values and taxes?

Those are just a couple of the "average Joe Citizen" slightly off-color legal activities that a lawyer like Mr. Cohen might have hidden in his files.

The higher up you go in wealth levels, the more likely to find less savory practices which can at best be considered border-line, and at worst outright violations of property/securities law.

Men like Trump dealing in construction and property development in a major city like NYC have to work with organized crime (for decades the Mafia controlled cement, garbage collection, and heavy transportation), government corruption (building health and safety inspector, and zoning graft), and other issues requiring "finessing the system" in order to ensure any profit on a venture.

These things are often borderline illegal when not outright violations of white collar crime...and all the price of doing business.

Did anyone go to jail over the various acts leading to government bailouts? Hell, aren't most Secretary of the Treasury occupants often the very people who engaged in such semi-legal "scams?"

So I expect lots of wealthy and not-so wealthy people might be concerned when attorney-client privilege is violated even with a man like Mr. Cohen. :shrug:

Only difference in the above rationalization, is that everyone isn't sitting in the White House at this time.

rjay said:

Last week Cohen's law office was raided; documents, computers, phones, and other materials were seized.

I think we can agree there had to be strong evidence to obtain such a warrant as well as evidence that Cohen could not be trusted to hand over required materials voluntarily.

What is amazing has been the response.

I know if my lawyer's office was raided, and I am certain if your lawyer's office was raided, your response would be: Wow. I wonder if he/she is into something criminal?
I would not be the least bit concerned that evidence of my complicity would be discovered.

Yet, on television, we hear that if Cohen ends up with charges laid, where he is facing 20+ years, he might flip. It is all about how loyal will Cohen remain?
If Cohen flips, Trump could be in real trouble, we hear. The assumption is Trump is a criminal.

How far has America gone when the assumption is the President is/has been involved in criminal activity. The question is, will it all come out, or will he dodge the bullet, perhaps through use of Pardons?

Why isn't the response: "The President's attorney may have committed a crime. Trump may have to get a new lawyer"

Click to expand...

Have you ever been the subject of a government attack?

rjay said:

Last week Cohen's law office was raided; documents, computers, phones, and other materials were seized.

I think we can agree there had to be strong evidence to obtain such a warrant as well as evidence that Cohen could not be trusted to hand over required materials voluntarily.

What is amazing has been the response.

I know if my lawyer's office was raided, and I am certain if your lawyer's office was raided, your response would be: Wow. I wonder if he/she is into something criminal?
I would not be the least bit concerned that evidence of my complicity would be discovered.

Yet, on television, we hear that if Cohen ends up with charges laid, where he is facing 20+ years, he might flip. It is all about how loyal will Cohen remain?
If Cohen flips, Trump could be in real trouble, we hear. The assumption is Trump is a criminal.

How far has America gone when the assumption is the President is/has been involved in criminal activity. The question is, will it all come out, or will he dodge the bullet, perhaps through use of Pardons?

Why isn't the response: "The President's attorney may have committed a crime. Trump may have to get a new lawyer"

Click to expand...

Because Trump has a history that's shady as hell, involves the mob and has been fined for money laundering.

Anyone even remotely familiar with him and his history would know that.

rjay said:

Why isn't the response: "The President's attorney may have committed a crime. Trump may have to get a new lawyer"

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I also noticed that it seems a given Trump is guilty AF.

Unlike Captain Adverse, I don't live with any illegal or semi-legal over my head.
I decided a long time ago that peace of mind is one of the most valuable things in the world.
If you don't have it, it's hard to enjoy anything else.

Plus, the Golden Rule is the real deal.

A few months back there was a bank error in my for for a several hundred dollars.
I called them and got that straightened even though I could've shrugged it off and kept the money.

Life is just better when it's simpler.
imho

Mason66 said:

Have you ever been the subject of a government attack?

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Hillary has. Several times even. Oddly she didn't throw tantrums, spew nonsense on twitter and behave like a spoiled child who had her toys taken away. But then she didn't have anything to hide.

Vern said:

Hillary has. Several times even. Oddly she didn't throw tantrums, spew nonsense on twitter and behave like a spoiled child who had her toys taken away. But then she didn't have anything to hide.

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Nobody here was talking about Hillary.

I asked a specific posters this question.

Mason66 said:

Nobody here was talking about Hillary.

I asked a specific posters this question.

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Mason, I get it, you were trying to imply in a typical conservative "question" sorta way that Cohen is being attacked by the govt. And because it was a question you can try to claim you were only curious if the person you were responding to was ever attacked. And that's why conservatives (and conservative like posters) like to ask questions because it gives them "deniability." But your point was clear. You only embarrass yourself trying to claim you only " asked a specific posters this question".

And Mason, you really cover yourself with glory being the only conservative (or conservative like poster) to ever complain about someone mentioning Hillary. But since Hillary was the only person I know who was the subject of a govt attack, mentioning her is quite relevant to your post regardless of your whining. And you know it.

Vern said:

Mason, I get it, you were trying to imply in a typical conservative "question" sorta way that Cohen is being attacked by the govt. And because it was a question you can try to claim you were only curious if the person you were responding to was ever attacked. And that's why conservatives (and conservative like posters) like to ask questions because it gives them "deniability." But your point was clear. You only embarrass yourself trying to claim you only " asked a specific posters this question".

And Mason, you really cover yourself with glory being the only conservative (or conservative like poster) to ever complain about someone mentioning Hillary. But since Hillary was the only person I know who was the subject of a govt attack, mentioning her is quite relevant to your post regardless of your whining. And you know it.

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No, that is not it.

I was asking the Op that question because he seems to assume that when the government does something they have the right to do it or at the very least thje legal means to do it.

I asked him because of this line in the OP.

""

He seems naive at the very least as to how governments work.

Mason66 said:

No, that is not it.

I was asking the Op that question because he seems to assume that when the government does something they have the right to do it or at the very least thje legal means to do it.

I asked him because of this line in the OP.

"

I think we can agree there had to be strong evidence to obtain such a warrant​

"

He seems naive at the very least as to how governments work.

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Sorry mason, you flailing at that statement doesn't make it not true. I just don't understand why conservatives (or conservative like posters) think "nuh uh" is an effective argument. common sense should tell you that FBI and DOJ know anything they do will be scrutinized by the partisan hacks running the govt right now so you need to post something other than "nuh uh". And my point still stands, Hillary is the only person I know who was the subject of a govt attack She handled it well simply because she did nothing wrong. Your dear leader is not handling it well.

Vern said:

Sorry mason, you flailing at that statement doesn't make it not true. I just don't understand why conservatives (or conservative like posters) think "nuh uh" is an effective argument. common sense should tell you that FBI and DOJ know anything they do will be scrutinized by the partisan hacks running the govt right now so you need to post something other than "nuh uh". And my point still stands, Hillary is the only person I know who was the subject of a govt attack She handled it well simply because she did nothing wrong. Your dear leader is not handling it well.

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Thank you for telling me what I was thinking.

You must be a genius or something, or maybe you can read minds of people a world away.

Hillary is the only person you know, you know Hillary?, that has had the government come after them?

You don't know anybody that was late paying their taxes or late paying a traffic ticket?

You must lead a charmed life along with all of your friends.

Mason66 said:

Thank you for telling me what I was thinking.
You must be a genius or something, or maybe you can read minds of people a world away.

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Oh mason, you asked a "question". You just don't get to whine that I misinterpreted it when it blows up in your face. Instead of whining at me, make clear specific points. And in spite of asking questions, your point was clear. "wah wah cohen/trump are the subjects of a govt attack". The fact that you are the only conservative (or conservative like poster) to get mad at someone bringing up Hillary only makes it hilarious.

Hillary is the only person you know, you know Hillary?, that has had the government come after them?
You don't know anybody that was late paying their taxes or late paying a traffic ticket?
You must lead a charmed life along with all of your friends.

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oh silly, you said "subject of a govt attack". Getting a fine or a traffic ticket is not a "govt attack". And fyi, you bringing up those examples proves you weren't just asking a specific poster as you stated. You only embarrass yourself further by such nonsense.

Vern said:

Oh mason, you asked a "question". You just don't get to whine that I misinterpreted it when it blows up in your face. Instead of whining at me, make clear specific points. And in spite of asking questions, your point was clear. "wah wah cohen/trump are the subjects of a govt attack". The fact that you are the only conservative (or conservative like poster) to get mad at someone bringing up Hillary only makes it hilarious.



oh silly, you said "subject of a govt attack". Getting a fine or a traffic ticket is not a "govt attack". And fyi, you bringing up those examples proves you weren't just asking a specific poster as you stated. You only embarrass yourself further by such nonsense.

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I said not paying the fine or traffic ticket will make the government come after you.

Don't misrepresent what I said.

And again, the original question I asked was not for you.

Mason66 said:

I said not paying the fine or traffic ticket will make the government come after you.
Don't misrepresent what I said.

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Oh look, mason plays the victim but oddly still doesn't make a point. mason, when you ask questions without making a point, you don't get to whine "that's not what I was trying to say". And here's the key mason, you didn't tell us what you were trying to say. You simply said "nuh uh, that's not what I said". Okay mason, enlighten us, what was you point when you asked these questions? (that's a question asking you to clarify your point, not an attempt to make a vague point that I could later deny I was trying to make).

Hillary is the only person you know, you know Hillary?, that has had the government come after them?
You don't know anybody that was late paying their taxes or late paying a traffic ticket?
You must lead a charmed life along with all of your friends.

And mason, not paying a ticket or taxes on time doesn't require a charmed life.

And again, the original question I asked was not for you.

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Oh mason, you cant retreat to your original deflection after you try to use the example of someone not paying their taxes on time. Its dishonest. You were trying to make a point Cohen was the victim of a govt attack and it blew up in your face. Here's some advice, instead of trying to make a vague point by asking "questions" that you can try to later deny, have the courage to make a clear straightforward point. Its what I do.