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The real claim by the Steele dossier of the golden shower, i.e. pee tape

humbolt said:
I don't know Trump's motivations in this regard, and as I said, it's not meaningful to me. I've traveled extensively, and most particularly during my later years in government employment. My presence in any number of countries could be tied to untoward things that occurred while I was in those places. That coincidence doesn't make me guilty.
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It would be curious, however, if you lied 100% of the time regarding your relationship with one very specific country. This latest revelation marks an unbroken record for him and everybody in his campaign lying about matters concerning Russia. Remember that 100% of his statements concerning Russia turned out not to be true. Even a person with a legitimately terrible memory would say a true thing now and again, if only by accident.

humbolt said:
Until some evidence corroborating such stuff is presented it remains a rumor, and those repeating it without evidence are only intent on smearing Trump. Cardinal, this falls to the level of me hearing that Hillary ate a Beagle puppy for dinner last week, and it could've happened. We know she had dinner last week, so...Maybe Buddy didn't die in a car accident. Maybe Hillary ate Buddy.
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It's not the golden shower, it's the possibility that he's being blackmailed over it. And before you say that there's no evidence it happened, keep in mind that he lied about it.
 
Cardinal said:
It would be curious, however, if you lied 100% of the time regarding your relationship with one very specific country. This latest revelation marks an unbroken record for him and everybody in his campaign lying about matters concerning Russia. Remember that 100% of his statements concerning Russia turned out not to be true. Even a person with a legitimately terrible memory would say a true thing now and again, if only by accident.
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Everybody lies - some more than others - but politicians lie. There are lies, and then there are damn lies. I expect that Mueller knows more about Trump's involvement with Russian than any of us will ever know, and given the direction of his work, I expect that such things as golden showers were tossed by the wayside a very long time ago.


It's not the golden shower, it's the possibility that he's being blackmailed over it. And before you say that there's no evidence it happened, keep in mind that he lied about it.
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Blackmailed? Heh. Given all the revelations about Trump's sexual proclivities in the past, I don't think the golden shower routine would have any traction on the blackmail front. Obama might be upset, but what Obama thinks isn't of great consequence anymore.
 
independentusa said:
I have heard people claim that the pee tape includes prostitutes peeing on Trump, it is not so. The claim the dossier makes about the pee tape is that Trump hired prostitutes to pee on each other, not on him, on the bed that the Obama's slept on when they were in Moscow. I would generally laugh at such stuff except we all know how Trump feels about the Obama's. I could see him doing it for that reason.
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Well, Im convinced. Tell me, after this pee festival, where did Trump sleep?
 
humbolt said:
Everybody lies - some more than others - but politicians lie. There are lies, and then there are damn lies. I expect that Mueller knows more about Trump's involvement with Russian than any of us will ever know, and given the direction of his work, I expect that such things as golden showers were tossed by the wayside a very long time ago.
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More to the point, people lie when it benefits them, either by attaining something or preventing something bad from happening. Trump lies all the time, but his lies are chaotic across the entire spectrum of topics. There is only one topic in which his lies have been 100% consistent, and that's on the issue of Russia. But simply saying "everybody lies" is a non-response to the question of whether or not the golden shower happened. He could have just said stated that it never happened and we'd be no further ahead on that topic than were were before we learned that he lied about his stay in Russia. But he lied to the director of the FBI to create an alibi for himself and was obsessed with how the golden shower incident would sit with Melania.

Before I learned about his lie I never took the "pee tape" thing seriously. His lie now has me thinking there might be something to it after all.

humbolt said:
Blackmailed? Heh. Given all the revelations about Trump's sexual proclivities in the past, I don't think the golden shower routine would have any traction on the blackmail front. Obama might be upset, but what Obama thinks isn't of great consequence anymore.
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You're projecting. Keep in mind that a golden shower is no big deal to you. You're a Trump supporter. Obviously you're not going to abandon him over this. Trump, however, clearly feels very differently about it.
 
Cardinal said:
It would be curious, however, if you lied 100% of the time regarding your relationship with one very specific country. This latest revelation marks an unbroken record for him and everybody in his campaign lying about matters concerning Russia. Remember that 100% of his statements concerning Russia turned out not to be true. Even a person with a legitimately terrible memory would say a true thing now and again, if only by accident.
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If 'everybody' in Trumps campaign is lying about Russia, doesnt that mean that 'everybody' in the campaign was in on the collusion conspiracy? And if 'everybody' was in on the conspiracy, why hasnt anyone been charged with collusion or conspiracy? Could it be that Mueller was in on the conspiracy as well? I mean he has been mighty quiet lately. What is he hiding?
 
Fletch said:
If 'everybody' in Trumps campaign is lying about Russia,
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If they've said a true thing regarding their relationship with Russian interests, I have yet to hear it. If you want to pretend that there's nothing suspicious about that, then that is your prerogative.
 
independentusa said:
I have heard people claim that the pee tape includes prostitutes peeing on Trump, it is not so. The claim the dossier makes about the pee tape is that Trump hired prostitutes to pee on each other, not on him, on the bed that the Obama's slept on when they were in Moscow. I would generally laugh at such stuff except we all know how Trump feels about the Obama's. I could see him doing it for that reason.
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I would bet if there is one thing in that Steele dossier that Comey wishes he had never seen it would be the "golden shower thing". As he came refer to it in his memos. I think having to brief the newly sworn in President Trump, whom he really didn't know personally at that point, about that salacious allegation was probably the most awkward and embarrassing discussion he had ever had to have with a President.

Then it was President Trump who kept coming back to it in their subsequent conversations. I can almost picture Comey doing an imaginary eye roll in his mind while silently thinking to himself as the President is droning on about it; "Oh Jesus Christ! Not the f--ing golden shower thing again!"
 
independentusa said:
I have heard people claim that the pee tape includes prostitutes peeing on Trump, it is not so. The claim the dossier makes about the pee tape is that Trump hired prostitutes to pee on each other, not on him, on the bed that the Obama's slept on when they were in Moscow. I would generally laugh at such stuff except we all know how Trump feels about the Obama's. I could see him doing it for that reason.
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The democrats are so blood thirsty they can’t let go.
 
chuckiechan said:
The democrats are so blood thirsty they can’t let go.
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Democrats didn't force Trump to lie to the Director of the FBI to create a false alibi in order to refute the golden shower claim.
 
independentusa said:
I have heard people claim that the pee tape includes prostitutes peeing on Trump, it is not so. The claim the dossier makes about the pee tape is that Trump hired prostitutes to pee on each other, not on him, on the bed that the Obama's slept on when they were in Moscow. I would generally laugh at such stuff except we all know how Trump feels about the Obama's. I could see him doing it for that reason.
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I'm inclined to believe the story, I mean, in the pursuit of stuff on Russia, who would have made up such a story? I mean, if they were making up a golden shower story, it seems it would have been even raunchier if the objective was to stain Trump, like the prostitutes actaully peeing on Trump, as if he were some kind of BDSM fetish freak, which, given his history, might be believable, but the fact that the story was limited, and peeing on the bed the Obama's slept on, that has a ring of truth to it.

BTW, Trump stayed overnight at the Ritz on a Friday night, and his guard left at some point, leaving the hotel room unguarded. Trump, therefore, has no alibi, and he lied about that fact.
 
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chuckiechan said:
The democrats are so blood thirsty they can’t let go.
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Blood thirsty?

You mean like the right wing memes of Hillary body count, Hillary doing satanic rituals involving children, etc etc etc?

That kind of blood thirsty?
 
independentusa said:
I have heard people claim that the pee tape includes prostitutes peeing on Trump, it is not so. The claim the dossier makes about the pee tape is that Trump hired prostitutes to pee on each other, not on him, on the bed that the Obama's slept on when they were in Moscow. I would generally laugh at such stuff except we all know how Trump feels about the Obama's. I could see him doing it for that reason.
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I'd probably pay to watch that. Is it available on the Internets yet?
 
Cardinal said:
Democrats didn't force Trump to lie to the Director of the FBI to create a false alibi in order to refute the golden shower claim.
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Didn't Trump's bodyguard Keith Shiller also make a statement about Trump staying overnight in the Moscow Ritz Carlton and I believe he also mentioned something about being offered 5 prostitutes to come visit him in his room.
 
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Cardinal said:
More to the point, people lie when it benefits them, either by attaining something or preventing something bad from happening. Trump lies all the time, but his lies are chaotic across the entire spectrum of topics. There is only one topic in which his lies have been 100% consistent, and that's on the issue of Russia. But simply saying "everybody lies" is a non-response to the question of whether or not the golden shower happened. He could have just said stated that it never happened and we'd be no further ahead on that topic than were were before we learned that he lied about his stay in Russia. But he lied to the director of the FBI to create an alibi for himself and was obsessed with how the golden shower incident would sit with Melania.

Before I learned about his lie I never took the "pee tape" thing seriously. His lie now has me thinking there might be something to it after all.



You're projecting. Keep in mind that a golden shower is no big deal to you. You're a Trump supporter. Obviously you're not going to abandon him over this. Trump, however, clearly feels very differently about it.
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Without any evidence at all that any such thing happened, it remains an attempted smear. Honestly, it sounds more like a fabrication resulting from a night of heavy drinking where a contest of sorts was dreamed up to say the most outrageous crap possible.
 
humbolt said:
Without any evidence at all that any such thing happened, it remains an attempted smear. Honestly, it sounds more like a fabrication resulting from a night of heavy drinking where a contest of sorts was dreamed up to say the most outrageous crap possible.
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And yet he lied to create a false alibi for himself. Before that there was no smoke. Now there is. And now a reasonable person has to ask what the fire at the center of that smoke is.
 
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ecofarm said:
The last year of news? Got anything but a right wing rag claiming the Fisa at Trump Tower was based on the dossier?

It was a financial server and the target had Fisa warrants before. Manafort, iirc.
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So much for secrecy from the FBI...
 
humbolt said:
One night would've been okay. I agree two nights is unacceptable. It's one night over the limit, or twice as much as decency would allow.
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Don't forget the emoji. Here's my suggestion:lamo
 
OscarLevant said:
I'm inclined to believe the story, I mean, in the pursuit of stuff on Russia, who would have made up such a story? I mean, if they were making up a golden shower story, it seems it would have been even raunchier if the objective was to stain Trump, like the prostitutes actaully peeing on Trump, as if he were some kind of BDSM fetish freak, which, given his history, might be believable, but the fact that the story was limited, and peeing on the bed the Obama's slept on, that has a ring of truth to it.

BTW, Trump stayed overnight at the Ritz on a Friday night, and his guard left at some point, leaving the hotel room unguarded. Trump, therefore, has no alibi, and he lied about that fact.
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The problem with Trump needing an alibi for the one night at the Ritz, there isn't any substantiated crime committed by Trump that needs to be alibied.

Hasn't a Trump body guard said Trump stayed overnight in Moscow and hadn't the guard also said prostitutes were brought in? One could look for a murder charge against Trump as well as a 'pee tape'. A murder charge would be more damaging. Of course, the MAIN REASON for searching, desperately, for the 'pee tape' is the desperate attempt to corroborate the Steele thing. It seems logical, since you want Trump out so bad, you'd root for the more damaging murder charge.

I think the KGB used to look for facts to fit the crime after the crime had been declared in the old Soviet Union, too.
 
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Cardinal said:
And yet he lied to create a false alibi for himself. Before that there was no smoke. Now there is. And now a reasonable person has to ask what the fire at the center of that smoke is.
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I ask for evidence, and that's eminently reasonable.
 
humbolt said:
I ask for evidence, and that's eminently reasonable.
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Don't forget, some American law enforcement agencies act like the KGB of the old Soviet Union.
 
cabse5 said:
Don't forget, some American law enforcement agencies act like the KGB of the old Soviet Union.
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Yeah, but Trump was in Russia. What more do you need to know? Cohen was in Prague too, in spite of the fact that actual witnesses place him in California. We all know he took the secret tunnel that connects California to Prague when no one was looking.
 
Cardinal said:
Why do you suppose he lied about not staying overnight in Moscow during the time the golden showers incident is said to have taken place?

As for the Special Counsel investigation, I trust them to handle their end while I'm posting on a debate forum.
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It is possible that it just his go to move.

I've always said the only time trump tells the truth when he does it by accident.

My only concern about the pee tape is it is the only unverified part of the dossier. It really doesn't matter if proven all it does is prove trump lied, and that doesn't change anything, it would be more surprising if it turns out he told them truth. The whole world knows he is the kids g of the liars and a world class lowlife scumbag, to find out he watched prostitutes pee on one another and lied about it would not only be unsuprising but it would change no one's opinion of him.
 
GDViking said:
It is possible that it just his go to move.

I've always said the only time trump tells the truth when he does it by accident.

My only concern about the pee tape is it is the only unverified part of the dossier. It really doesn't matter if proven all it does is prove trump lied, and that doesn't change anything, it would be more surprising if it turns out he told them truth. The whole world knows he is the kids g of the liars and a world class lowlife scumbag, to find out he watched prostitutes pee on one another and lied about it would not only be unsuprising but it would change no one's opinion of him.
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No, it doesn't prove that the golden shower claim is true. But creating a false alibi combined with his obsession with how Melania would think about the allegation creates a legitimate suspicion and a need to delve further into it. But if we're going to lower the bar to "Welp, he just lies, so nothing matters anymore" then we should all just cash out now, call the American Experiment a failure and suspend democracy. I, for one, have yet to enter that level of cynicism.

As for the golden shower claim, this isn't about changing opinions or even the nature of the allegation itself. If it was shown definitively that the claim was false it would not improve my opinion of Trump, and if it were shown definitively to be true it was not cause his supporters to abandon him. That's not what this is about. What it is about is that if true, and if Trump considers it important enough to be blackmailed by it, then we have a situation in which our President is being successfully blackmailed by a foreign power.

For over a solid year now our President has behaved toward Putin in a way that is wholly inconsistent with how he treats anybody else. Although his admiration of dictators is well established, it is only Putin who can seem to do no wrong.
 
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