Two black men arrested at Philly Starbucks for trespassing

Wan · Apr 17, 2018

sangha said:
The Constitution says Congress can make it illegal.

Well, you could be right. Are you able to quote parts of the Constitution where they say the Congress can pass laws to regulate citizens' social behaviors?

sangha · Apr 17, 2018

Wan said:
So quote me. Show me where I "misrepresent" myself. And even if I did, so what? Why are you so emotionally invested in this thing? It's barely even relevant. Are you a minority yourself?

I did quote you.

If I tried really hard, I could probably make some white people like me. But I don't think of stuff like this because it's not super important. It is fine by me if some white people don't like me.

What you think does not change the facts

I think how I feel is very relevant. The question is whether I "feel oppressed", so I believe my feelings should be taken into account.

Not to those of us who do not care.

sangha · Apr 17, 2018

Wan said:
Well, you could be right. Are you able to quote parts of the Constitution where they say the Congress can pass laws to regulate citizens' social behaviors?

I, and another poster, have already told you that this is not about social behaviors. It is about regulating businesses.

How many times do you need to hear that?

Wan · Apr 17, 2018

sangha said:
I, and another poster, have already told you that this is not about social behaviors. It is about regulating businesses.

How many times do you need to hear that?

They can regulate businesses, but they cannot, or should not, be able to compel businesses to not racially discriminate. Why is it any of the government's business whether private businesses discriminate or not?

sangha · Apr 17, 2018

Wan said:
They can regulate businesses, but they cannot, or should not, be able to compel businesses to not racially discriminate.

They can, they should, and they do

Why is it any of the government's business whether private businesses discriminate or not?

Because...the Constitution

Wan · Apr 17, 2018

sangha said:
They can, they should, and they do

Because...the Constitution

:facepalm:

This isn't going anywhere.

sangha · Apr 17, 2018

Wan said:
:facepalm:

This isn't going anywhere.

Where did you think you were going?

Wan · Apr 17, 2018

sangha said:
Where did you think you were going?

On my way to winning your love.

jaeger19 · Apr 17, 2018

ecofarm said:
Judged them black. Testimony and video proves others (whites) did the same with no problem before the selective zero-tolerance "policy" enforcement.

What I figured. Its why starbucks went bat crap crazy to state this was a wrong move by the manager.

sangha · Apr 17, 2018

Wan said:
On my way to winning your love.

jaeger19 · Apr 17, 2018

Wan said:
I can relate to this. At my alma mater, there were a very large number of Asian (mostly Chinese) students, and most of the public restrooms were filthy. One time I saw a note stuck to a door that said, "didn't your mother teach you any manners"? Which I assumed was from an exasperated white student. I was very ashamed (I am Asian).

Why the heck would you assume that was from an exasperated WHITE student? :shock:

jaeger19 · Apr 17, 2018

Wan said:
Well, pardon me if I am wrong, I am not an American, so I am not the most familiar with your Constitution. However, my understanding is that Constitution talks about what the government can or cannot do. It does not say that private citizens cannot be racist.

it says that citizens will have equal protection under the law.. and one of those laws in this case is that discrimination in public accommodations is illegal.

Wan · Apr 17, 2018

jaeger19 said:
Why the heck would you assume that was from an exasperated WHITE student? :shock:

It just seemed likely. Most first-generation Asians have bad hygiene habits.

Wan · Apr 17, 2018

jaeger19 said:
it says that citizens will have equal protection under the law.

Yes, from the government. But not from other citizens.

. and one of those laws in this case is that discrimination in public accommodations is illegal.

Then maybe these public accommodation laws are unjust.

SheWolf · Apr 17, 2018

Acadia said:
Either way, you're vilified and punished.
Managing while white. Yes, it's a crime.

You're assuming the manger is white. The manger could be any race.

SheWolf · Apr 17, 2018

roguenuke said:
Did she ask the same person? Do we know who she asked? Again, witnesses can be wrong (or lie). Or she could be telling the truth and the woman was being an ass. We don't know. But we do know the same thing has happened before, to white customers.

Actually, this same exact occurrence hasn't happened before that I am aware of.

SheWolf · Apr 17, 2018

Mason66 said:
Just to be clear, if you get pulled over by a police officer and he disrespects you, you will fight him right there?

There is a difference between challenging authority and anti-social disruptive behavior. I will never not fight for my rights or what I think is right. That doesn't mean I will throw a fist at cop. I would peacefully be arrested and then hire a lawyer.

PirateMk1 · Apr 17, 2018

sangha said:
Since I wrote the post you are responding to, it has been learned that several other people who had not purchased anything were allowed to stay and allowed to use the bathroom.

The demand that they leave was illegal. It was brave of them to stand up against the illegal demand

I hope you realize that a store policy can not overrule the law. It is illegal to discriminate on the basis of race, which the evidence shows is what happened

In that case, I would be more inclined to agree with you, though to be honest if someone asks you to leave their premises regardless of the reason you should probably leave.

roguenuke · Apr 17, 2018

SheWolf said:
Actually, this same exact occurrence hasn't happened before that I am aware of.

Then we don't know that this was racism. There could be dozens of other reasons for not giving the code to one person but giving it to another (if that even happened as claimed).

But Starbucks have refused to give the code to others before this, even before the one in January. I've posted the link here already where a pregnant woman in Arizona a couple years ago was denied the code. It was even refused to her husband when he was purchasing something. They were kicked out of the store and threatened to have the police called on them.

roguenuke · Apr 17, 2018

sangha said:
Since I wrote the post you are responding to, it has been learned that several other people who had not purchased anything were allowed to stay and allowed to use the bathroom.

The demand that they leave was illegal. It was brave of them to stand up against the illegal demand

I hope you realize that a store policy can not overrule the law. It is illegal to discriminate on the basis of race, which the evidence shows is what happened

There is no solid evidence that they were refused the bathroom based on race. That is simply the claim. The evidence only shows that they were refused access to the restroom because they refused to buy something. The hearsay evidence is that others are claiming they were able to use the restroom without buying anything. But we don't know what was really going on here. Especially when the whole thing (in Philly) seems like a setup. The most suspicious part is that they would have a friend who called a lawyer for them so quickly (yet they weren't released) and then their names still haven't been released. Why not? Is there a reason that the public cannot know who exactly this incident involves? How long were they there in the Starbucks waiting? I've read that they were waiting, but how long? To me, these kinds of facts are important to finding out why they were asked to leave and whether it actually may have been racial bias or something else.

SheWolf · Apr 17, 2018

ecofarm said:
God Himself could float down and declare, in a voice for all the Earth to hear, "it was because they are black".

And some people would, "well, you know He's been wrong before, and it's not like we can read minds".

Why is it so impossible for some people to just say, "yep, racism happens".

If it were reversed and a bunch of immigrants and minorities treated a bunch of conservative white Christians like this, they would be blowing their heads off in rage.

SheWolf · Apr 17, 2018

JC Callender said:
Is this racism as well?: Starbucks denies pregnant woman use of bathroom | Fox News

It's most likely not the same manger. This manager apparently gave a non paying customer the bathroom code right before these two men asked for it. She said no, it's for paying customers only and told them to leave. They told her they were there to meet somebody and sat back down. The manger wouldn't leave it at that, and decided to pick up the phone and dial 911. When the cops showed up to make an arrest, other people inside Starbucks admitting to being there without paying.

roguenuke · Apr 17, 2018

SheWolf said:
If it were reversed and a bunch of immigrants and minorities treated a bunch of conservative white Christians like this, they would be blowing their heads off in rage.

And those conservative white Christians would be wrong unless they could show that the person was actually targeting them due to those particular reasons (and should be charged with murder if they really killed them or assault for any other harm). I've argued this with certain Trump supporters I know on FB who like to post crap about people being targetted for having a Trump sticker or Lock Hillary Up sticker on their vehicle. Many of them have no evidence that someone is upset over a sticker or some other thing, some are obviously baiting protesters, and yet they continually claim "oh you are just mad at me for my hat, sticker, Trump support, etc.". This is the same thing. Both sides do it, and both sides are wrong for doing it. You have to have the info, or should, before determining if most things are racial biased. There simply is not enough info out right now from either the Philly incident or the LA incident to truly know if the person/people were denied access to the restroom due to their race (conscious bias or unconscious) or something else.

Now, this doesn't mean that they should have been denied access. What it means is that the first conclusion should definitely not have been "must be due to race". That happened almost immediately and it was wrong because there really was no evidence to support that assumption besides just their race, which is not in itself evidence of racial bias.

SheWolf · Apr 17, 2018

JC Callender said:
Now there's another video taken of a white man using the restroom before ordering and the man filming accusing Starbucks of racism because he was denied. The white man in this video says he's going to order though, and who knows, maybe the manager sees him there a lot. I have to say, it would be insane at this point to let a white guy just waltz into the bathroom without knowing he's going to order and refuse a black man right before him...I mean, who would set themselves up for that kind of brutal public scrutiny? This managers face is all over the world now and she's branded a racist over a Starbucks bathroom policy. I'll probably refuse to go to Starbucks over their corporate handling of this.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...bucks-refusal-let-him-use-restroom/521233002/

I feel sorry for these managers. They're not the ones demanding coded locks be put on Starbucks bathroom doors, that's a corporate decision to either enforce that or allow that.

He should have been denied the access code and told to leave, and he didn't leave the premises, he should arrested for trespassing. Fair is fair, right?

What did that white guy do differently than these two black men? These black guys asked to use the bathroom and sat down before paying. This that how you expect all establishments to treat people on their property?

roguenuke · Apr 17, 2018

SheWolf said:
It's most likely not the same manger. This manager apparently gave a non paying customer the bathroom code right before these two men asked for it. She said no, it's for paying customers only and told them to leave. They told her they were there to meet somebody and sat back down. The manger wouldn't leave it at that, and decided to pick up the phone and dial 911. When the cops showed up to make an arrest, other people inside Starbucks admitting to being there without paying.

Where exactly is evidence that she gave a non paying customer the bathroom code right before them? Hearsay is not evidence.