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Count Dankula: The Importance of Free Speech

TheGoverness

TheGoverness

Little Miss Sunshine
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Article Here.

Warning: RANT INCOMING

I want to address the importance of this, in terms of overall idea of freedom of speech. Count Dankula, a YouTuber, has recently been convicted of a hate crime (violation of the Communications Act) due to him training his pug to lift his paw when he says “Heil Hitler”. The fact that this led to a conviction, is just mind-blowing to me. This was so very obviously a joke on Count Dankula’s part (which he specifies at the beginning of the video), and the fact that the judge refused to see that is just ridiculous. And this case has gotten lots of attention, to the point where even people like Ricky Gervais is commenting on it. But unfortunately this hasn't gotten as much media attention as I would hope, because more people need to see this just to know how ridiculous this decision was.

Here is the offending video:




One amazing thing about the United States, is that we really have it good when it comes to protections on freedom of speech. We can pretty much say anything we want, so long as it isn't slander or incitement to violence, which is a great thing. And it really sucks to know that in a lot of other developed nations, protections for free speech aren’t always there. And there should be. This case also exemplifies why I am against implementing any kinds of hate speech laws here in the U.S. Because with that kind of slippery slope, innocent people like this guy, get caught in the mix. It should not be a crime to make a joke that is “grossly offensive”. And hell, it shouldn’t be a crime to make a racist or anti-Semitic statement. Even if that was what this guy did (which he didn’t), that should still not be a punishable offense. Everyone should be allowed to speak their mind, whether it’s a joke or a horrible racist comment (so long as there is no incitement of violence). Because if you cross that line of trying to censor "offensive" speech, that leaves the door open for lots of other people speech to me interpreted as "offensive", and then it all goes downhill. If you think that Count Dankula should have been convicted, then you really cannot say that you support the idea of freedom of speech. Because you don’t.
 
Just be careful that nobody on campus sees this. If they do you might end up being indicted on grounds of advocating for common sense and individual liberty.
 
Have no illusions once the anti freedom crowd gets done limiting peoples right to arms, Speech is next.

We already see places looking to make using the wrong pronoun a criminal offense
 
Lutherf said:
Just be careful that nobody on campus sees this. If they do you might end up being indicted on grounds of advocating for common sense and individual liberty.
Click to expand...

Your opinion of college campuses is a bit off.
 
As an American, I'm glad we revolted. This crap is ridiculous.
 
Critter7r said:
lol

New California law allows jail time for using wrong gender pronoun, sponsor denies that would happen | Fox News

Claims mislead about California forcing jail time for using wrong transgender pronoun | PolitiFact California
Click to expand...

First time I've ever heard of this California bill. Here's what your second link actually says, WAY down the page:

But we also found an element of truth: Violations of the bill could, under limited circumstances, be treated as a misdemeanor with punishment of up to one year in jail and/or a $1,000 fine.

Courtney Joslin, a UC Davis law professor, said the bar for criminal prosecution would be extremely high.

"The bill is very, very clear that what is prohibited is the willful engagement and repeated engagement in discriminatory conduct against LGBT seniors. So, if someone makes a mistake or doesn’t know what a person’s gender identity is and uses the incorrect pronoun that is not a violation of the statute," Joslin said.

Willful and repeated violations alone wouldn’t lead to criminal prosecution, Joslin added. They would likely be punished with a fine.

Criminal charges would only follow, she said, if the violation reached a level that was shown to cause the risk of death or serious physical harm, in accordance with state’s existing penalty structure for health and safety code violations at long-term care centers.
 
TheGoverness said:
Article Here.

Warning: RANT INCOMING

I want to address the importance of this, in terms of overall idea of freedom of speech. Count Dankula, a YouTuber, has recently been convicted of a hate crime (violation of the Communications Act) due to him training his pug to lift his paw when he says “Heil Hitler”. The fact that this led to a conviction, is just mind-blowing to me. This was so very obviously a joke on Count Dankula’s part (which he specifies at the beginning of the video), and the fact that the judge refused to see that is just ridiculous. And this case has gotten lots of attention, to the point where even people like Ricky Gervais is commenting on it. But unfortunately this hasn't gotten as much media attention as I would hope, because more people need to see this just to know how ridiculous this decision was.

Here is the offending video:




One amazing thing about the United States, is that we really have it good when it comes to protections on freedom of speech. We can pretty much say anything we want, so long as it isn't slander or incitement to violence, which is a great thing. And it really sucks to know that in a lot of other developed nations, protections for free speech aren’t always there. And there should be. This case also exemplifies why I am against implementing any kinds of hate speech laws here in the U.S. Because with that kind of slippery slope, innocent people like this guy, get caught in the mix. It should not be a crime to make a joke that is “grossly offensive”. And hell, it shouldn’t be a crime to make a racist or anti-Semitic statement. Even if that was what this guy did (which he didn’t), that should still not be a punishable offense. Everyone should be allowed to speak their mind, whether it’s a joke or a horrible racist comment (so long as there is no incitement of violence). Because if you cross that line of trying to censor "offensive" speech, that leaves the door open for lots of other people speech to me interpreted as "offensive", and then it all goes downhill. If you think that Count Dankula should have been convicted, then you really cannot say that you support the idea of freedom of speech. Because you don’t.
Click to expand...


Why the poor pug dog!

What could he have done to wind up with this guy?

Oh,

some splintered part.

How unlucky!
 
Last edited:
TheGoverness said:
Article Here.

Warning: RANT INCOMING

I want to address the importance of this, in terms of overall idea of freedom of speech. Count Dankula, a YouTuber, has recently been convicted of a hate crime (violation of the Communications Act) due to him training his pug to lift his paw when he says “Heil Hitler”. The fact that this led to a conviction, is just mind-blowing to me. This was so very obviously a joke on Count Dankula’s part (which he specifies at the beginning of the video), and the fact that the judge refused to see that is just ridiculous. And this case has gotten lots of attention, to the point where even people like Ricky Gervais is commenting on it. But unfortunately this hasn't gotten as much media attention as I would hope, because more people need to see this just to know how ridiculous this decision was.

Here is the offending video:




One amazing thing about the United States, is that we really have it good when it comes to protections on freedom of speech. We can pretty much say anything we want, so long as it isn't slander or incitement to violence, which is a great thing. And it really sucks to know that in a lot of other developed nations, protections for free speech aren’t always there. And there should be. This case also exemplifies why I am against implementing any kinds of hate speech laws here in the U.S. Because with that kind of slippery slope, innocent people like this guy, get caught in the mix. It should not be a crime to make a joke that is “grossly offensive”. And hell, it shouldn’t be a crime to make a racist or anti-Semitic statement. Even if that was what this guy did (which he didn’t), that should still not be a punishable offense. Everyone should be allowed to speak their mind, whether it’s a joke or a horrible racist comment (so long as there is no incitement of violence). Because if you cross that line of trying to censor "offensive" speech, that leaves the door open for lots of other people speech to me interpreted as "offensive", and then it all goes downhill. If you think that Count Dankula should have been convicted, then you really cannot say that you support the idea of freedom of speech. Because you don’t.
Click to expand...


Young lady, I've told you this before, but it surely deserves restating: You are an extremely impressive young person. I truly enjoy your insight and the way you form your opinions in your posts and threads. We at DP are blessed to have you as a fellow member.

Thanks for posting this thread.
 
Your Star said:
Your opinion of college campuses is a bit off.
Click to expand...

It depends on the school, but when it comes to public, and even many private, colleges and universities? Not off by much, if any, if you take into account his snark in the statement.
 
TheGoverness said:
Article Here.

Warning: RANT INCOMING

I want to address the importance of this, in terms of overall idea of freedom of speech. Count Dankula, a YouTuber, has recently been convicted of a hate crime (violation of the Communications Act) due to him training his pug to lift his paw when he says “Heil Hitler”. The fact that this led to a conviction, is just mind-blowing to me. This was so very obviously a joke on Count Dankula’s part (which he specifies at the beginning of the video), and the fact that the judge refused to see that is just ridiculous. And this case has gotten lots of attention, to the point where even people like Ricky Gervais is commenting on it. But unfortunately this hasn't gotten as much media attention as I would hope, because more people need to see this just to know how ridiculous this decision was.

Here is the offending video:




One amazing thing about the United States, is that we really have it good when it comes to protections on freedom of speech. We can pretty much say anything we want, so long as it isn't slander or incitement to violence, which is a great thing. And it really sucks to know that in a lot of other developed nations, protections for free speech aren’t always there. And there should be. This case also exemplifies why I am against implementing any kinds of hate speech laws here in the U.S. Because with that kind of slippery slope, innocent people like this guy, get caught in the mix. It should not be a crime to make a joke that is “grossly offensive”. And hell, it shouldn’t be a crime to make a racist or anti-Semitic statement. Even if that was what this guy did (which he didn’t), that should still not be a punishable offense. Everyone should be allowed to speak their mind, whether it’s a joke or a horrible racist comment (so long as there is no incitement of violence). Because if you cross that line of trying to censor "offensive" speech, that leaves the door open for lots of other people speech to me interpreted as "offensive", and then it all goes downhill. If you think that Count Dankula should have been convicted, then you really cannot say that you support the idea of freedom of speech. Because you don’t.
Click to expand...


Aside from my joke above and I agree with the other post that TheGoverness always caught my eye, I'd like to state my political opinion.

1) We often take our rights for granted.

2) If we're not doing the above, we're screaming for rights we haven't earned and calling privileges rights.

I like the present administration and am disappointed by my liberal saviors.

I am not disturbed when I see a ruling like this and think it's good that Trump is cleaning up America.

Too bad he had to pass his tax reform.
 
Beaudreaux said:
First time I've ever heard of this California bill. Here's what your second link actually says, WAY down the page:

But we also found an element of truth: Violations of the bill could, under limited circumstances, be treated as a misdemeanor with punishment of up to one year in jail and/or a $1,000 fine.

Courtney Joslin, a UC Davis law professor, said the bar for criminal prosecution would be extremely high.

"The bill is very, very clear that what is prohibited is the willful engagement and repeated engagement in discriminatory conduct against LGBT seniors. So, if someone makes a mistake or doesn’t know what a person’s gender identity is and uses the incorrect pronoun that is not a violation of the statute," Joslin said.

Willful and repeated violations alone wouldn’t lead to criminal prosecution, Joslin added. They would likely be punished with a fine.

Criminal charges would only follow, she said, if the violation reached a level that was shown to cause the risk of death or serious physical harm, in accordance with state’s existing penalty structure for health and safety code violations at long-term care centers.
Click to expand...

Yes, if you risk someone's death via willful and repeated actions you can be jailed in California... oh, and everywhere else also.
 
Your Star said:
Your opinion of college campuses is a bit off.
Click to expand...

Tell that to Bret Weinstein, a Liberal Biology professor who's had his career ruined for speaking science.
 
Deuce said:
Yes, if you risk someone's death via willful and repeated actions you can be jailed in California... oh, and everywhere else also.
Click to expand...

That’s not what your article says. It says descrimination, such as not addressing a person as sir instead of ma’am if they are a trans female. So yeah, it could be what they said, and your posted source even admits that fact, although grudgingly.
 
Beaudreaux said:
That’s not what your article says. It says descrimination, such as not addressing a person as sir instead of ma’am if they are a trans female. So yeah, it could be what they said, and your posted source even admits that fact, although grudgingly.
Click to expand...

I think that the "willful and repeated" part is important. And it seems to me that it would fall under some sort of "causing a nuisance"-type of ordinance. Just because it's speech doesn't mean it can't be regulated to some extent.

"The bill is very, very clear that what is prohibited is the willful engagement and repeated engagement in discriminatory conduct against LGBT seniors. So, if someone makes a mistake or doesn’t know what a person’s gender identity is and uses the incorrect pronoun that is not a violation of the statute," Joslin said.
 
There can be no justification for prosecuting someone for speaking their mind, for their beliefs, or for their sense of humor.

Having said all that, Europeans are much more sensitive to hate speech due to words that turned into actions a few decades ago, resulting in the death of millions of innocent people and a world war.

I'm not saying that prosecuting this guy was right. I'm simply trying to hypothesize why speech might be looked at a little differently in Europe, than it is in North America.
 
Beaudreaux said:
That’s not what your article says. It says descrimination, such as not addressing a person as sir instead of ma’am if they are a trans female. So yeah, it could be what they said, and your posted source even admits that fact, although grudgingly.
Click to expand...
You quoted it, dude.
Willful and repeated violations alone wouldn’t lead to criminal prosecution, Joslin added. They would likely be punished with a fine.

Criminal charges would only follow, she said, if the violation reached a level that was shown to cause the risk of death or serious physical harm, in accordance with state’s existing penalty structure for health and safety code violations at long-term care centers.
Click to expand...
 
Beaudreaux said:
Young lady, I've told you this before, but it surely deserves restating: You are an extremely impressive young person. I truly enjoy your insight and the way you form your opinions in your posts and threads. We at DP are blessed to have you as a fellow member.

Thanks for posting this thread.
Click to expand...

Awww. You're making me blush, B.
 
lurchadams said:
There can be no justification for prosecuting someone for speaking their mind, for their beliefs, or for their sense of humor.

Having said all that, Europeans are much more sensitive to hate speech due to words that turned into actions a few decades ago, resulting in the death of millions of innocent people and a world war.

I'm not saying that prosecuting this guy was right. I'm simply trying to hypothesize why speech might be looked at a little differently in Europe, than it is in North America.
Click to expand...

That may very well be the case. Even so, I hope it changes for the better.
 
Beaudreaux said:
It depends on the school, but when it comes to public, and even many private, colleges and universities? Not off by much, if any, if you take into account his snark in the statement.
Click to expand...

I would say the people being outraged by the outrage outnumber the original "outrage" by quite a bit.
 
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