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If Pence was really a Christian...

Winchester said:
So no, but you do know his crafted public persona which may or may not match his true character.
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And looking fine at photo ops is not demonstrating political skills. We dont see much from him, and a lot of the time he seems to have little clue what Trump is up to, they dont seem to be all that close, they sure were not on the campaign trail, this has been documented.

Plus he was washed up in politics when Trump found him, one must assume for a reason he had failed out in what should be his prime.
 
Yes_Minister said:
I am bilking people out of money to private jet and then acting like a holy roller? I don't use religion to help my bank account, I have no power and they have a ton of power that they abuse all the time, I may not be perfect, but least I do not use the name of Jesus as cloak to hide my own greed and exploit it to make a buck.

Frankly their greed and corruption is why a lot of younger people get disillusioned with religion, these people talk a good game, but they never walk the walk.

You just want to stick your fingers in your ears and ignore the corruption, they have no moral basis to judge anyone, given how crooked they are and you have no basis either, given how you enable their corruption.
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I think you can find greed and corruption in just about anything but you already played your hand pal when you accused the "right wing" for the corruption. You made a faith base issue political.
 
vesper said:
I think you can find greed and corruption in just about anything but you already played your hand pal when you accused the "right wing" for the corruption. You made a faith base issue political.
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The religious right has been marrying their faith with politics for decades and chose to marry their faith with their lust for power:

The Religious Right's Power Grab: How Outside Activists Became Inside Operatives | Religion & Politics

I have a right call them out over that and Pence is part of that movement.
 
vesper said:
I think you can find greed and corruption in just about anything but you already played your hand pal when you accused the "right wing" for the corruption. You made a faith base issue political.
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Yeah, but your side is invoking god as they lust for power and rob people blind.
 
Winchester said:
The fact that he participated in this **** show/photo opp really makes me doubt him.

"’President Trump Is a Believer and so am I’: Pence Confirms Trump’s Christian Faith to CBN News"

04-donald-trump-beleiver.w710.h473.jpg
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I'm one of the very few Democrats on here supporting a President Pence yesterday so you can imagine the grief I'm getting. I'm being practical, pragmatic if you will. The only other option is the current CinC.

Do CinC supporters really need to be reminded of what they're defending right now, in every aspect?
It will take 218+ House members, since I believe the 67+ Senate votes are there.

And yes, I get the religious ideologue stuff, yet Pence can't do any worse with his Judicial picks.
There certainly isn't any possibility of getting his Social Agenda through Congress.

And yes, Pence would be much harder for DEMs to run against in 2018.
I'm willing to pay that price ...
 
PoS said:
The only true Christians left are the Amish maybe. Everybody else just cherry picks the parts in the bible that are convenient to them.
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I don't believe that one for a minute. The Amish have a lot of rules and are always finding ways to skirt them. They don't believe in electricity yet they don't find it wrong to get anything that runs on electricity cut the cord off and convert it to a gasoline engine. They don't have phones in their homes but by golly they have no problem using a phone in town.

But today I read some rabbi has now declared cloned pigs kosher.

This isn't about rules and regulations that makes a person right before G-d, it is the condition of their heart. And there is no one on at DP that has the power of discerning who is right with G-d and who isn't.
 
Linc said:
I'm one of the very few Democrats on here supporting a President Pence yesterday so you can imagine the grief I'm getting. I'm being practical, pragmatic if you will. The only other option is the current CinC.

Do CinC supporters really need to be reminded of what they're defending right now, in every aspect?
It will take 218+ House members, since I believe the 67+ Senate votes are there.

And yes, I get the religious ideologue stuff, yet Pence can't do any worse with his Judicial picks.
There certainly isn't any possibility of getting his Social Agenda through Congress.

And yes, Pence would be much harder for DEMs to run against in 2018.
I'm willing to pay that price ...
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I can understand the logic for wanting to switch out Trump for Pence.

Pence is certainly a reactionary zealot, but he is far less chaotic then Trump and is thus far less likely to start a giant war or an economic depression. Its a risky trade off though.
 
vesper said:
I don't believe that one for a minute. The Amish have a lot of rules and are always finding ways to skirt them. They don't believe in electricity yet they don't find it wrong to get anything that runs on electricity cut the cord off and convert it to a gasoline engine. They don't have phones in their homes but by golly they have no problem using a phone in town.

But today I read some rabbi has now declared cloned pigs kosher.

This isn't about rules and regulations that makes a person right before G-d, it is the condition of their heart. And there is no one on at DP that has the power of discerning who is right with G-d and who isn't.
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So what's the condition of Joel Osteen's heart when he did not let those hurricane victims into his mega church or when this guy wanted his flock to buy him a private jet?

https://www.cnn.com/2015/03/13/living/creflo-dollar-jet-feat/index.html
 
calamity said:
Yeah, but your side is invoking god as they lust for power and rob people blind.
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Actually with your history of anti-Christian threads on this forum and your anti-Trump rhetoric along with your anti-right of center politics I would have to say you have a lust for power you fail to possess and wish to create havoc any way you can.
 
Fishking said:
No true Scottsman fallacy.
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OK, if it's a fallacy to ask who is or isn't a "true" Christian, aren't you agreeing then with the notion that there IS no standard, intellectual or behavioral, for qualification as a Christian? And, if absolutely anyone can call themselves that while acting in contradiction to the actual words of Jesus, then being a Christian means nothing. I'm only asking because I agree with you that there is no standard of behavior and never has been one and calling yourself a Christian means nothing. If their standard of judgement of the words and actions of Democrats is very high but is very "forgiving" or non-existent for republicans, that is yet another contradiction to the Jesus character, who claimed to dislike hypocrites.

It is the pretense of faithfulness that Pence achieves. He wears a side part and pressed suits and walks around like he's got a stick up his ass, playing the part. He hates women to the "proper", Christian degree and would load the homos on boxcars, given a chance. But, that's not Christianity, it's authoritarianism, isn't it? Pence is someone who uses his religiosity as a bludgeon, the invisible badge of authority that entitles him to dispense tough love in the form of really insanely stupid, inhuman legislation.

No, you're right, Pence is as Christian as any who ever marched on Jerusalem or blocked a schoolhouse door. To be a true American Christian is to be proudly hostile to the ideas of equality and free conscience, to America itself. Pence is so Christian, he needs to be forgiven for it.
 
Yes_Minister said:
So what's the condition of Joel Osteen's heart when he did not let those hurricane victims into his mega church or when this guy wanted his flock to buy him a private jet?

https://www.cnn.com/2015/03/13/living/creflo-dollar-jet-feat/indely x.html
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I don't have the power to know what is in the heart of another and neither do you. Only G-d possess that power. I don't even know who Joel Osteen is. But I do know there are many everyday Americans that would take exception in the way you categorized them earlier.
 
calamity said:
Yeah, but your side is invoking god as they lust for power and rob people blind.
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Now that comment says it all and explains why the left is so far out of touch with the average American.
 
calamity said:
He'd resign.

Think about it. He's ass-kissing a man embroiled in adultery with Porn stars & Playboy models, while *****-grabbing with god only knows who else. He supports a thief. He stands in one with a bearer of false witness, a man who tells multiple lies on daily basis. His boss hurls many stones, even though he is far from being without sin.

How does Pence do it? Well---he does it by not being a true Christian. That's how.
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You sneer down your nose at Christians and Christianity anyway... where you're qualified to make such judgements is quite beyond comprehension.

While I'll certainly admit there are probably very few good Christians holding high political office, due to the moral compromises typically required to attain such offices, I really don't think you're the one to be deciding that, given your clear bias on the matter.
 
vesper said:
Trump is a flawed human being but so is every president that served before him was flawed. ALL MEN/WOMEN ARE FLAWED.

The only thing I recall "Jesus/Yeshua" state about world affairs was give unto Caesar what is Caesar's and give unto G-d what is G-d's. ◄ Mark 12:17 ►
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Then he called the crowd to him along with his disciples and said: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me and for the gospel will save it. What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?

==

Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”


==

There is nothing outside a person that by going into him can defile him, but the things that come out of a person are what defile him.

==

Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.


==

I think if this country gets any kinder or gentler, it's literally going to cease to exist."

Playboy, March 1990

==

The U.S. cannot allow EBOLA-infected people back. People that go to far away places to help out are great - but must suffer the consequences!"

Twitter, 2/9/14

==

My favourite part [of Pulp Fiction] is when Sam has his gun out in the diner and he tells the guy to tell his girlfriend to shut up. 'Tell that bitch to be cool. Say: Bitch be cool.' I love those lines."

As quoted in TrumpNation: The Art of Being the Donald, 2005.

==

She does have a very nice figure... If [Ivanka] weren't my daughter, perhaps I'd be dating her."

The View, 2006

==

Show me someone with no ego and I'll show you a big loser."

Trump: How To Get Rich, 2004

==

As a kid, I was making a building with blocks in our playroom. I didn't have enough. So I asked my younger brother Robert if I could borrow some of his. He said, 'Okay, but you have to give them back when you're done.' I used all of my blocks, then all of his blocks, and when I was done I had a great building, which I then glued together. Robert never did get those blocks back."

Esquire, January 2004

==

I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters."

23/1/16

==

Donald Trump gets it: he's the genuine article. He's a doer in a game usually reserved for talkers. And when Donald Trump does his talking, he doesn't tiptoe around the thousand new rules of political correctness.

Mike Pence

Reconcile it however you want, Jesus wouldn't condone a thing Trump or Pence stands for.
 
vesper said:
I don't believe that one for a minute. The Amish have a lot of rules and are always finding ways to skirt them. They don't believe in electricity yet they don't find it wrong to get anything that runs on electricity cut the cord off and convert it to a gasoline engine. They don't have phones in their homes but by golly they have no problem using a phone in town.

But today I read some rabbi has now declared cloned pigs kosher.

This isn't about rules and regulations that makes a person right before G-d, it is the condition of their heart. And there is no one on at DP that has the power of discerning who is right with G-d and who isn't.
Click to expand...

The bible is all about rules and directives. If its all just in the heart, then why would god even bother to lay out his rules?
 
PoS said:
The bible is all about rules and directives. If its all just in the heart, then why would god even bother to lay out his rules?
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G-d's rules and commands are one thing. Rules and commands created by man are another thing.
 
vesper said:
While you go off on your rampage about Pence one could claim Bill Clinton and Hillary were a perfect depiction of King Ahab and Jezebel.

King David the man who did it all would not find any grace in your eyes yet he found grace in the eyes of G-d.

Pence is a true Christian and he understands saved by grace. You don't.
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David? That's Old Testament.
"It's not your fault, because it's not your book."

 
calamity said:
I'm not asking Pence to judge Trump. But, I do find it hard to justify him working for Trump.
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I don't.
Pence is a Dominionist and Dominionists have been searching high and low for someone to help them "bring America to its knees" (a VERY COMMON subject in Dominionist sermons) so that we will be ripe for a biblical government to be installed.

Donald Trump is their "weapon of mass destruction" at least as far as secular democracy is concerned. Once he has helped them accomplish that they will have no further need of him.
 
vesper said:
Really? Folks that make those kind of claims tend to be the corrupt for they have no idea what is in the hearts of believers they accuse .
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I know what is in their hearts:

"The Great Transfer of Wealth From the Wicked to the Righteous"
Glenn Beck: God Brought About Scalia's D | The Daily Caller

They thought it was going to be Ted Cruz, turned out it was Donald Trump.

Who ARE "the wicked"?
Two groups, the poor, who ARE poor BECAUSE they are wicked, and the "wealthy who are wicked" because they oppose Dominionist Fundamentalist Evangelical Christianity's agenda of biblical government. Thus THOSE particular wealthy shall soon BE poor, thanks to some people that the Dominionists refer to as "God's Bankers".

https://www.redletterchristians.org/theology-government-shutdown-christian-dominionism/

It doesn't matter that it wasn't Ted Cruz, except of course to Ted Cruz.
Long as the job gets done, fine by them.
The theology of repeated government shutdowns is also based in Dominionist dogma.
The secular democracy is so hated by Dominionists that they will do anything in their power to keep it rocking back on its heels in an effort to destabilize the balance of power.

They NEED constant chaos to achieve their ends.
Well, Trump is the Chaos Tornado, and the Doms have finally accepted that he is their tool sent by God, which is why they anointed him.
It has nothing to do with forgiveness, it has everything to do with bringing about WWIII (Armageddon), moving the Israeli capital to Jerusalem, and bringing America to its knees so that the people will literally beg for a strongman to march in on his white steed and restore order.
 
washunut said:
He doesn't have a job you can just quit. Plus in 2019 when democrats take the house Trump will be impeached and the Senate may just go along with it. Then Pence gets the top job. It will be interesting to see how much people like him as President. I am pretty sure I won't.
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Pence is a milquetoast, and with a Democratic majority in both chambers, he'll be a milquetoast on a leash with a muzzle.
Vote in November as if your lives depended on it, because they just might.
 
ThoughtEx. said:
Then he called the crowd to him along with his disciples and said: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me and for the gospel will save it. What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?

==

Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”


==

There is nothing outside a person that by going into him can defile him, but the things that come out of a person are what defile him.

==

Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.


==

I think if this country gets any kinder or gentler, it's literally going to cease to exist."

Playboy, March 1990

==

The U.S. cannot allow EBOLA-infected people back. People that go to far away places to help out are great - but must suffer the consequences!"

Twitter, 2/9/14

==

My favourite part [of Pulp Fiction] is when Sam has his gun out in the diner and he tells the guy to tell his girlfriend to shut up. 'Tell that bitch to be cool. Say: Bitch be cool.' I love those lines."

As quoted in TrumpNation: The Art of Being the Donald, 2005.

==

She does have a very nice figure... If [Ivanka] weren't my daughter, perhaps I'd be dating her."

The View, 2006

==

Show me someone with no ego and I'll show you a big loser."

Trump: How To Get Rich, 2004

==

As a kid, I was making a building with blocks in our playroom. I didn't have enough. So I asked my younger brother Robert if I could borrow some of his. He said, 'Okay, but you have to give them back when you're done.' I used all of my blocks, then all of his blocks, and when I was done I had a great building, which I then glued together. Robert never did get those blocks back."

Esquire, January 2004

==

I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters."

23/1/16

==

Donald Trump gets it: he's the genuine article. He's a doer in a game usually reserved for talkers. And when Donald Trump does his talking, he doesn't tiptoe around the thousand new rules of political correctness.

Mike Pence

Reconcile it however you want, Jesus wouldn't condone a thing Trump or Pence stands for.
Click to expand...

Good folks make the best choice at the ballot box they can given any election. What would Jesus/Yeshua do? Do you think He would encourage his followers to pick someone who believed in abortion on demand? Do you think He would encourage someone to vote for a person that uses race baiting when all G-d's children are equal in His eyes? Do you think Yeshua/Jesus would have encouraged his followers to choose a candidate who was all about stifling their 1st amendment rights of religious liberties?
 
vesper said:
Good folks make the best choice at the ballot box they can given any election. What would Jesus/Yeshua do? Do you think He would encourage his followers to pick someone who believed in abortion on demand? Do you think He would encourage someone to vote for a person that uses race baiting when all G-d's children are equal in His eyes? Do you think Yeshua/Jesus would have encouraged his followers to choose a candidate who was all about stifling their 1st amendment rights of religious liberties?
Click to expand...

SCOTUS ruled on abortion, doesn't matter what the candidate thinks, so that's a moot point. Trump is an actual racist, has appointed actual racists, so moot point. being able to persecute gays is not a 1st amendment right, and for his take on it, see the quote on persecution from the righteous (aka what right wing religious people are trying to do).

As far as Jesus is concerned, nothing about being a conservative lines up with his morals. Not your tax policy, not your insistence on legislating morals, not your social policy, none of it. And if you believe, truly believe, that Jesus would pick Trump over literally any other person in the world to run a country, then I got some dead sea scrolls to sell you, barely used...

In my opinion, if you voted for Trump, you are not a good person. Even if you hated Hillary, could have voted third party. Or written in your own name, or not voted. But if you actually looked at the ballot, selected Trump, submitted that ballot. Then you are a terrible terrible person, and should be forced to step on a lego everyday.
 
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vesper said:
While you go off on your rampage about Pence one could claim Bill Clinton and Hillary were a perfect depiction of King Ahab and Jezebel.

King David the man who did it all would not find any grace in your eyes yet he found grace in the eyes of G-d.

Pence is a true Christian and he understands saved by grace. You don't.
Click to expand...

You are onto something here. Not only that, none of us are perfect. Christians least of all, and we know we need saving grace.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Pence is a milquetoast, and with a Democratic majority in both chambers, he'll be a milquetoast on a leash with a muzzle.
Vote in November as if your lives depended on it, because they just might.
Click to expand...

Just because he does not bluster I would not underestimate him. He has much more strongly held beliefs than Trump. Don't mistake Mid-Western quietness with lack of backbone.
 
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