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US school shooting: Police investigate Marylan

apdst said:
You made the original challenge; exerted your superiority; don't want to just let it go. You prove it.
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I called you out and you made a stupid claim.

I dont have to prove it..it's true. And you cant prove it's wrong :mrgreen:
 
Lursa said:
I called you out and you made a stupid claim.

I dont have to prove it..it's true. And you cant prove it's wrong :mrgreen:
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Just can't let it go. Can you?
 
Lursa said:
Thank you.

Actually, not even in the 2nd scenario you wrote for armed citizens being targeted. Guns are not magic. If they were, cops and soldiers wouldnt be killed. It's called ambushes. A true predator attacking an armed citizen or cop or soldier will likely succeed because they choose the time and place and the armed person needs to be able to draw and aim and shoot. In an ambush...it's not impossible to defend yourself but the odds are not in your favor.

OTOH, absolutely a person with a gun can stop a mass shooting. It's very likely that the school guard did so today. As long as the person with the gun isnt one of the intial victims ambushed...they have a good chance of making a difference.

It's just that there arent enough armed citizens and we never know where the next 'ambush' will take place. It's really a case of 'right time, right place.'

And btw, no armed citizen is obligated to protect others in such cases. That is up to them and they assume all the risks that come with it (and know that)...physical and legal.
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This is a great response, on many levels because you bring up points that rarely are discussed. Like the assumption an armed citizen is going to actually get involved.

I think our nation's vigilance ebbs and flows. That said, I can think of no better place to put an armed security officer or cop than in a school. I think that this is a scenario where, eventually (which is horrific to contemplate), "good guy with a gun" will actually produce measurable results with regard to the bigger picture. The question becomes, will tax payers be willing to foot the bill? In many cities and counties, one full time SRO, let alone one in every school, is simply too expensive given their existing budgets. Not to mention the cost of hardening a school with enhanced physical security upgrades. I would vote yest a hundred times for increasing taxes if it were put on the ballot.

We actually had an unarmed good guy prevent a mass shooting at my kids school years ago. Middle schooler brought his dads SKS to school, walked in the front door and fired a round into the ceiling, which struck the fire sprinkler line and blasted everyone with, black oily water. Gun jammed and a principal and a teach grabbed him and pushed him outside. He was 10 feet from the doors of the auditorium where all the kids go to hang out until first period starts. I was on the job so I responded with every other cop in the city. We still only had an average of one SRO for every four schools in the county.
 
trouble13 said:
You seem like a decent enough person so im just going to say i think your wrong about what leftists support. If i challenged you to support your belief i think it eould take a lot of effort for to find exsmples of it and there would not be any you could offer

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
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All I can say to that is if you go back through any recent gun ban threads or school shooting threads I participated in you will find that I am 100% against gun bans and always approach gun violence from a people problem angle, not a gun problem. I've had fellow lefties get cross with me more than once over my position.

I was a cop for almost two decades, and a soldier (infantry and MP) for almost the same amount of time. Guns have been a part of my life as far back as I can remember.
 
trouble13 said:
Did you know his name without searching for it?

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
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Yes, I posted the article with officer Gatskills name in an earlier post.

And Lester Holt just reported NBC nightly National News that “Officer Gaskill was being hailed as a hero.”
 
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minnie616 said:
Yes, I posted the article with officer Gatskills name in an earlier post.

And NBC nightly news just that “Officer Gaskill was being hailed as a hero.”
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Whether he shot the kid or not, he definitely stopped the shooting.

He is a hero.
 
Lerxst said:
We actually had an unarmed good guy prevent a mass shooting at my kids school years ago. Middle schooler brought his dads SKS to school, walked in the front door and fired a round into the ceiling, which struck the fire sprinkler line and blasted everyone with, black oily water. Gun jammed and a principal and a teach grabbed him and pushed him outside. He was 10 feet from the doors of the auditorium where all the kids go to hang out until first period starts. I was on the job so I responded with every other cop in the city. We still only had an average of one SRO for every four schools in the county.
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An unarmed principle stopped one a yr or so ago too...she talked the kid out of it.
Very brave.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Perhaps one day we'll see a headline: "No mass shootings for a whole month!"

But, let's not count on it.
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If you had been paying attention rather than listening to the hype and rhetoric, you would have seen that there have been 1-3 mass shootings a year since 1982. All that changed was people categorized them differently for the sake of the sensational. Meanwhile, a man bashes the heads of 4 family member in with a barbell and it doesnt gain national attention. Wrong type of mass murderer, wrong type of implement, wrong type of victim.
 
VanceMack said:
If you had been paying attention rather than listening to the hype and rhetoric, you would have seen that there have been 1-3 mass shootings a year since 1982. All that changed was people categorized them differently for the sake of the sensational. Meanwhile, a man bashes the heads of 4 family member in with a barbell and it doesnt gain national attention. Wrong type of mass murderer, wrong type of implement, wrong type of victim.
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Has some man bashed in the heads of family members with a barbell on average 1-3 times a year?

Lately, there have been a lot more shootings than that.
 
Lerxst said:
Three victims and the shooter wounded. Nobody dead, thank goodness.

Becoming a regular occurrence it seems.
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American said:

Ban guns!!!!
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minnie616 said:
No mention of the type of gun the shooter in Maryland used.
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American said:
Fatal shooting on West Side is Chicago's 100th homicide of the year - Chicago Tribune

9 shot in Chicago overnight, 1 fatally, including 2 cousins - Chicago Tribune

What kind of guns did they use in these shooting?
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Utility Man said:
The "Conservative" kind ?

Seller: "The good thing is, though, if you don't like it you can just sell it later and its not in your name like when you buy a new one you have to worry where it's going to end up"
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American said:
Nice attempt at trolling.
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The truth hurts, aye.

You now need a bigger government and more guns to protect you from the second amendment, yee haw !

tumblr_o2z4xngpB11qinrtgo1_1280.jpg
 
gunner said:
Yea.....gun nuts will jump all over that in some kind of vindication parade. What an extremely sad set of circumstances that push the need for armed guards on a school campus.
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I believe that until we delve deep into our society to discover what causes, motivates these kids to go into a school and beginning shooting, killing that they will continue. What I want to know is what happened to our society that we require metal detectors and armed security guards in school. 20-30 years ago that wasn't the case. Here's a list of school shootings which doesn't include this latest one.

List of school shootings

2018, 14 February - Marjory Stoneman Douglas High school shootings - (17 dead)
2017, November 14 - Rancho Tehama Reserve shootings - (6 dead)
2015, 1 October - Umpqua Community College shooting - (10 dead)
2014, October 24- Marysville Pilchuck High School shooting - (5 dead)
2013, June 7 - 2013 Santa Monica shooting - (6 dead)
2012, December 14- Sandy Hook Elementary School shootings - (28 deaths)
2012, 2 April - Oikos University shooting - (7 deaths)
2008, February 14 - Northern Illinois University shooting - (6 deaths)
2007, 6 April - Virginia Tech massacre - (33 deaths)
2006, October 2 - West Nickel Mines School shooting - (6 deaths)
2005, 21 March - Red Lake shootings - (10 deaths)
1999, 20 April - Columbine High School massacre - (15 deaths)
1998, May 21 - Thurston High School shooting - (4 deaths)
1998, March 24 - Mitchell Johnson and Andrew Golden - (5 deaths)
1991, 1 November - University of Iowa shooting - (6 deaths)
1976, 12 July - Fulerton, California - (7 deaths)
1970, 4 May - Kent State shootings (4 deaths)
1966, 12 November - Mesa, Arizona - (5 deaths)
1966, 1 August - University of Texas tower shooting - (17 deaths)
1940, May 6 - Pasadena - (5 deaths)
1893, December 13 - Charleston - (6 deaths)
1893, March 26 - Plain Dealing high school - (4 deaths)
1764, July 26 - Enoch Brown (10 deaths)

Notice that from 1764 through 1997 there were a total of nine. From 1998 through today 15 counting this recent one which is not on my list. Why the difference? Why so many over the last 20 years? I think if we find out the answers to those two questions we'll be on the way to solving school shootings. If we don't, whatever we do means nothing in the long run and they will continue.
 
Perotista said:
I believe that until we delve deep into our society to discover what causes, motivates these kids to go into a school and beginning shooting, killing that they will continue. What I want to know is what happened to our society that we require metal detectors and armed security guards in school. 20-30 years ago that wasn't the case. Here's a list of school shootings which doesn't include this latest one.

List of school shootings

2018, 14 February - Marjory Stoneman Douglas High school shootings - (17 dead)
2017, November 14 - Rancho Tehama Reserve shootings - (6 dead)
2015, 1 October - Umpqua Community College shooting - (10 dead)
2014, October 24- Marysville Pilchuck High School shooting - (5 dead)
2013, June 7 - 2013 Santa Monica shooting - (6 dead)
2012, December 14- Sandy Hook Elementary School shootings - (28 deaths)
2012, 2 April - Oikos University shooting - (7 deaths)
2008, February 14 - Northern Illinois University shooting - (6 deaths)
2007, 6 April - Virginia Tech massacre - (33 deaths)
2006, October 2 - West Nickel Mines School shooting - (6 deaths)
2005, 21 March - Red Lake shootings - (10 deaths)
1999, 20 April - Columbine High School massacre - (15 deaths)
1998, May 21 - Thurston High School shooting - (4 deaths)
1998, March 24 - Mitchell Johnson and Andrew Golden - (5 deaths)
1991, 1 November - University of Iowa shooting - (6 deaths)
1976, 12 July - Fulerton, California - (7 deaths)
1970, 4 May - Kent State shootings (4 deaths)
1966, 12 November - Mesa, Arizona - (5 deaths)
1966, 1 August - University of Texas tower shooting - (17 deaths)
1940, May 6 - Pasadena - (5 deaths)
1893, December 13 - Charleston - (6 deaths)
1893, March 26 - Plain Dealing high school - (4 deaths)
1764, July 26 - Enoch Brown (10 deaths)

Notice that from 1764 through 1997 there were a total of nine. From 1998 through today 15 counting this recent one which is not on my list. Why the difference? Why so many over the last 20 years? I think if we find out the answers to those two questions we'll be on the way to solving school shootings. If we don't, whatever we do means nothing in the long run and they will continue.
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A good post. Sadly, those very questions do not seem to be in the present lexicon surrounding the gun debate. It always falls down to a false choice of guns or no guns. There has to be another way to approach this.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Has some man bashed in the heads of family members with a barbell on average 1-3 times a year?

Lately, there have been a lot more shootings than that.
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Things definitely are crazy...and I think you could make an argument for them getting worse.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Mass_murder_in_2016

"Mass shootings, such as the killing of 10 people at Umpqua Community College in Oregon, focus the nation's attention on gun laws, from President Obama down to local activists.

But even if guns weren't available, nearly 355 people would likely still have died in mass killing incidents in the U.S. over the past 10 years.

Since 2006, at least 1,068 people have died from gunshots in a mass killing, defined by the FBI as an incident with four or more victims. But another 140 people suffered fire-related injuries, 104 were stabbed and at least 92 were killed by blunt force, according to data tracked by USA TODAY."

Do you think the mass murder of a family with a barbell is unimportant?
 
gunner said:
A good post. Sadly, those very questions do not seem to be in the present lexicon surrounding the gun debate. It always falls down to a false choice of guns or no guns. There has to be another way to approach this.
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The two new laws proposed in banning AR-15 and having to be 21 to buy a gun wouldn't have stopped this one. The kid was 17 without an AR-15. Guns aren't responsible, they're a tool. If the motivation, the cause, the reason these kids go on a mass killing rampage, anyone does, the tool changes. Not listed is where 45 kids were killed in Bath, Michigan because of a bomb, dynamite used instead of a gun. That was the most deadly school killing. So if the motivation, the reason, the cause remains, the tool used to accomplish it will change. The deadlist mass killings were done with some other tool than a gun. Poison grape drink in Jonestown, over 900 dead. A truck bomb in Oklahoma City, 168 dead, Gasoline and a match in a club in Brooklyn 87 dead, worst yet with gasoline, in Korea gasoline again with a lighter, 132 dead.

Does the tool matter? Are we interested in the motivation, the reason or the what causes these folks to go out and kill for basically killing's sake? It doesn't seem so.
 
Crovax said:
From the article, “According reports, the attacker was shot by a school security officer.” So a good guy with a gun prevented a mass school shooting.
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More 'gun' rubber BS... :roll:

First this wasn't the start of a mass shooting but rather the old jilted lover routine.

Next the armed confrontation with accompanying shoot out caused MORE casualties as the second student victim was caught in the cross fire.

So ya might want to save the bumper sticker slogans for another day... :peace
 
AlbqOwl said:
Yes, and if the media was responsible they would make that their headlines on this story. These sociopathic murderers are not nearly as likely to go after the soft targets of the schools when the word gets out they are no longer soft targets. Meanwhile prayers for the victims and those who were required to experience it.
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Except it wasn't the start of a mass shooting. As a rabid 'gun' rubber points out, sociopathic murderers don't apply the same thought process the computer warriors do... ;)

Now most of we know by now there are armed guards in schools, now would you hazard a guess on the percent of armed adults in a school vs any other public place... I'd opine the odds as about the same no matter the setting. Remember you can't count the hundreds of minors as potential shooter stoppers but the handful of adults.

I have to wonder just how many more innocent children would have been wounded or killed in a cross fire shoot-out if there had been a couple of armed teachers joining in the fire fight. High stress tends to induce tunnel vision so seeing all the moving parts often doesn't happen.

No, pushing this incident as 'proof' about stopping mass shootings is highly flawed...

A mass shooter comes in head up and sweeping for targets, looking for that officer. Was this kids roaming the halls shooting people? Have any of we noticed the preferred weapon is a self loading long arm??? (When LEOs practice entry into a school to stop a mass shooter they use ARs- not so much for any high volume of fire but a longer sight line for better shot placement. If you watch a lot of pistol shooters then transition to carbines their groups tighten WAAAAY up so errant rounds are few and ahhh far between to use a rather sloppy phrase)

It might have missed you keen gaze but the second student was a victim of the shoot-out so it wasn't all honey and biscuits... :peace
 
VanceMack said:
Things definitely are crazy...and I think you could make an argument for them getting worse.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Mass_murder_in_2016

"Mass shootings, such as the killing of 10 people at Umpqua Community College in Oregon, focus the nation's attention on gun laws, from President Obama down to local activists.

But even if guns weren't available, nearly 355 people would likely still have died in mass killing incidents in the U.S. over the past 10 years.

Since 2006, at least 1,068 people have died from gunshots in a mass killing, defined by the FBI as an incident with four or more victims. But another 140 people suffered fire-related injuries, 104 were stabbed and at least 92 were killed by blunt force, according to data tracked by USA TODAY."

Do you think the mass murder of a family with a barbell is unimportant?
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It's a pretty rare occurrence, don't you think?

Is cutting the number of killings from 1,068 to 355 a step in the right direction?
 
notquiteright said:
Except it wasn't the start of a mass shooting. As a rabid 'gun' rubber points out, sociopathic murderers don't apply the same thought process the computer warriors do... ;)

Now most of we know by now there are armed guards in schools, now would you hazard a guess on the percent of armed adults in a school vs any other public place... I'd opine the odds as about the same no matter the setting. Remember you can't count the hundreds of minors as potential shooter stoppers but the handful of adults.

I have to wonder just how many more innocent children would have been wounded or killed in a cross fire shoot-out if there had been a couple of armed teachers joining in the fire fight. High stress tends to induce tunnel vision so seeing all the moving parts often doesn't happen.

No, pushing this incident as 'proof' about stopping mass shootings is highly flawed...

A mass shooter comes in head up and sweeping for targets, looking for that officer. Was this kids roaming the halls shooting people? Have any of we noticed the preferred weapon is a self loading long arm??? (When LEOs practice entry into a school to stop a mass shooter they use ARs- not so much for any high volume of fire but a longer sight line for better shot placement. If you watch a lot of pistol shooters then transition to carbines their groups tighten WAAAAY up so errant rounds are few and ahhh far between to use a rather sloppy phrase)

It might have missed you keen gaze but the second student was a victim of the shoot-out so it wasn't all honey and biscuits... :peace
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I have not had a lot of training in the matter--I am not and have never been in a position to deter a mass shooter or to be responsible for security--but I have had a little. And I am pretty darn sure that I would know when it prudent to pull the trigger and when not to.

Those licensed for CC in our state undergo quite a bit of training for their certification and I am pretty sure we are not unique in that regard. I certainly am not suggesting that the unskilled, untrained, and/or unwilling be armed in such cases, but for those already trained or willing to be trained, I say arm them. I'll take my chances on the occasional injury or even death from friendly fire rather than have a mass murderer such as at Sandy Hook or Parkland, have a free rein to mow down as many as he wants.
 
Dittohead not! said:
It's a pretty rare occurrence, don't you think?

Is cutting the number of killings from 1,068 to 355 a step in the right direction?
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How would you suggest they do that?
 
Dittohead not! said:
It's a pretty rare occurrence, don't you think?

Is cutting the number of killings from 1,068 to 355 a step in the right direction?
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Can you say with any degree of confidence that taking away guns would have reduced the killings given all the different ways there are to kill? Would you be more afraid of the Austin bomber if he was sniping with a rifle to kill people instead of using bombs?

Would you rather take your change with the gang member with a gun or that your car could blow up when you start it up tomorrow morning?

The fallacy is seeing the guns as the evil instead of those who are doing evil.
 
AlbqOwl said:
Can you say with any degree of confidence that taking away guns would have reduced the killings given all the different ways there are to kill? Would you be more afraid of the Austin bomber if he was sniping with a rifle to kill people instead of using bombs?

Would you rather take your change with the gang member with a gun or that your car could blow up when you start it up tomorrow morning?

The fallacy is seeing the guns as the evil instead of those who are doing evil.
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Guns are usually much easier to buy and do not require as much knowledge as building a bomb would.
 
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