Forbes - The Last Jim Crow Generation

Checkerboard Strangler said:

I saw it with my own two eyes!
I'll never forget the day Mrs. French came to our junior high to teach Social Studies.
I think about half the kids were all like "Oh COOL, now we're gonna hear about Civil Rights and stuff", another bunch snickered and made crude jokes about her big behind and coal black skin, until she started in with a voice that had to have been made for choir, loud, full and commanding.
And one girl in particular, named Laura, had just moved to Maryland from Texas and at lunch she was running around, "I swear, I nevah thought I would evah evah see a negro teacher in a white school!"
I really don't think she was being bigoted, just shocked and amazed.
Obviously the white schools where she grew up in Texas had never had any black teachers?
She didn't sound mad, ruffled, indignant or insulted, just wide eyed and incredulous.

And she DID focus a lot on the Civil Rights movement, and you had to know your stuff, too.
I got a B-minus.

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Had a free-floating chat a few weeks back with a bi-racial woman born in 1930 whose uncle was one of the Tuskegee Airmen. That woman had seen a lot of history and was full of real life stories. It is a shame that it is all being lost though. We were discussing about how we both really wanted to see the new museum in DC. It was just compelling to see how much pride she had in saying that even if she didn't get to visit it, she would at least die knowing that she has already seen her Uncle's photo in the Smithsonian with the TA.

In the 60's we had race riots up North because police departments were almost 100% white. In the 70's, whites kept blacks out of their neighborhoods or they all moved out. In the 80's, everything changed--but, then Reagan brought in crack and ****ed black people in the ass all over again.

Life is just not fair, unless, of course, you're a straight white male.

calamity said:

Well, White Conservative Southerners, both Dems and Repubs, voted nearly unanimously against civil rights. In fact, come to think of it, Southern Republicans did vote 100% against it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964#By_party_and_region

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For the most part, if you spread things out across a ten year time line of events, you're really talking about the same people. First they were Southern Dems, known as "the Solid South", then they became Dixiecrats, then some of them turned to Wallace and the "American Independent Party" (AIP) and finally they turned Republican. The Nixon Southern Strategy finally succeded.

The Republicans who voted against Civil Rights in the late 50's were also divided but on ideological lines. Goldwater Republicans thought it was "none of the federal government's business" even if they were against segregation. Funny enough, Goldwater would not come right out and admit he was wrong on the Civil Rights Act of 64 but instead he applauded the progress made by its passage.
Some Rockefeller Republicans, on the other hand, supported the Democrats even as they griped about the costs.
The strangest thing about it is, the Northern, Eastern and West Coast Democrats were simply taking the initial effort of the former "liberal Republicans" and pushing it along to its logical conclusion out of necessity. There simply was no way to beat back Jim Crow without federal involvement.
Republicans believed that passing their one or two smaller bills would summon "the better angels of conservative nature" but as some later admitted, they were unprepared for the backlash from the segregationist "Solid South".

Checkerboard Strangler said:

For the most part, if you spread things out across a ten year time line of events, you're really talking about the same people. First they were Southern Dems, known as "the Solid South", then they became Dixiecrats, then some of them turned to Wallace and the "American Independent Party" (AIP) and finally they turned Republican. The Nixon Southern Strategy finally succeded.

The Republicans who voted against Civil Rights in the late 50's were also divided but on ideological lines. Goldwater Republicans thought it was "none of the federal government's business" even if they were against segregation. Funny enough, Goldwater would not come right out and admit he was wrong on the Civil Rights Act of 64 but instead he applauded the progress made by its passage.
Some Rockefeller Republicans, on the other hand, supported the Democrats even as they griped about the costs.
The strangest thing about it is, the Northern, Eastern and West Coast Democrats were simply taking the initial effort of the former "liberal Republicans" and pushing it along to its logical conclusion out of necessity. There simply was no way to beat back Jim Crow without federal involvement.
Republicans believed that passing their one or two smaller bills would summon "the better angels of conservative nature" but as some later admitted, they were unprepared for the backlash from the segregationist "Solid South".

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Yep. As my link showed, the Northern Dems and R's all overwhelmingly supported the Act. And, the exact opposite was true of Southerners. Hence, it is not unjust to say, Southerners are Racists."

calamity said:

In the 60's we had race riots up North because police departments were almost 100% white. In the 70's, whites kept blacks out of their neighborhoods or they all moved out. In the 80's, everything changed--but, then Reagan brought in crack and ****ed black people in the ass all over again.

Life is just not fair, unless, of course, you're a straight white male.

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I hesitate to admit it but I was an addict during the Reagan/CIA cocaine campaign in L.A. during the 80's, been clean for twenty-three years now. I saw it first hand and even knew TWO LAPD cops who had GOBS of the stuff and who had parties at their homes in Mar Vista with all the blow you wanted.
I could drive anyone right past the house that one of them lived in...I don't know if the guy is still alive or if he sold the house but I could go there right now in my sleep if I wanted to.

I was also at the town hall meeting when Mike Ruppert exposed the whole stinking mess in front of CIA director John Deutch.

backpacker said:

Had a free-floating chat a few weeks back with a bi-racial woman born in 1930 whose uncle was one of the Tuskegee Airmen. That woman had seen a lot of history and was full of real life stories. It is a shame that it is all being lost though. We were discussing about how we both really wanted to see the new museum in DC. It was just compelling to see how much pride she had in saying that even if she didn't get to visit it, she would at least die knowing that she has already seen her Uncle's photo in the Smithsonian with the TA.

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having lived in the DC area for 24 years, there are a few places you MUST see

one is the Holocaust museum

There are so many wings of the Smithsonian that unless you have weeks, you will never see it all....and some are 15-20 miles outside of the city

And then the new African American Museum which opened a few months before we left in Sept 16....

Every city has it culture and must see places....New York, Los Angeles, Boston, etc

But imo our capitol is the must see of all of them....and if you can do it during the Cherry Blossom festival, well....you wont regret it

Checkerboard Strangler said:

I hesitate to admit it but I was an addict during the Reagan/CIA cocaine campaign in L.A. during the 80's, been clean for twenty-three years now. I saw it first hand and even knew TWO LAPD cops who had GOBS of the stuff and who had parties at their homes in Mar Vista with all the blow you wanted.
I could drive anyone right past the house that one of them lived in...I don't know if the guy is still alive or if he sold the house but I could go there right now in my sleep if I wanted to.

I was also at the town hall meeting when Mike Ruppert exposed the whole stinking mess in front of CIA director John Deutch.

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CIA (or its predecessor American Intelligence) has been smuggling drugs into the US since WW2. That people still argue today that they didn't play a huge roll in the cocaine crisis of the 80's is naïve at best.

calamity said:

Yep. As my link showed, the Northern Dems and R's all overwhelmingly supported the Act. And, the exact opposite was true of Southerners. Hence, it is not unjust to say, Southerners are Racists."

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I knew a few Southerners who were not racist in the least, not that it did much good.
It was noble of them but the fact is, if you wanted to keep your job, or keep your house, or maintain stability and security in your family, and you lived in the South and you were white, you'd best keep your mouth shut, unless you wanted to pay the price.

So I don't know if I can blanket the entirety of all Southerners with the racist tag but in the end it's a moot point because the power of the groups who were racist was enough to scare the good sense out of a lot of people.

As a motorhead, let me break it down for you along hot rodding lines.
NASCAR was definitely the most racist motor sport there ever was but NHRA (the 1/4 mile dragster people) were among the first to dissolve the color barrier.
Sure, you still see plenty of the "white trashy three B" (beard, belly, baseball cap) types in the NHRA but you'll see mechanics and drivers of all colors all working, drinking and racing together.
And of course the "Formula Un" (Formula One) people don't give two ****s what color you are, as long as you can handle 225 MPH in the straights and keep the revs above 15 thousand.
If you see F1 people acting racist, it's because they are Euro-trash themselves

And of course the pedigreed show car people, they just care about the money, and if you HAVE the money, welcome to the Concours d'Elegance. Be ready to lay it down on some bids when the auctions start!
Funny enough, the same goes for the lower levels of the show car crowd, if you can fabricate and do a rotisserie frame off resto and make a car look original or you can do a stunning resto-mod, no one is concerned with your color.

gdgyva said:

having lived in the DC area for 24 years, there are a few places you MUST see

one is the Holocaust museum

There are so many wings of the Smithsonian that unless you have weeks, you will never see it all....and some are 15-20 miles outside of the city

And then the new African American Museum which opened a few months before we left in Sept 16....

Every city has it culture and must see places....New York, Los Angeles, Boston, etc

But imo our capitol is the must see of all of them....and if you can do it during the Cherry Blossom festival, well....you wont regret it

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I grew up in the shadow of Bethesda Naval Hospital, now called Walter Reed National Military Medical Center.
The main tower was literally visible rising up through the trees at the top of my street.


My cousin works as Chief Photographer at the Smithsonian National Museum of the American Indian. I can't even count how many times I visited the Smithsonian as a kid, both with family AND on school field trips.

But no, I never did get to see the African-American Museum but if they run the place anything like the way they run the one for the American Indians, it's probably going to be well worth visiting.

PS: Would it surprise you to know that I could recognize the sound of a Chinook heli even at age five?
They would ferry the wounded from Andrews AFB to the Navy Hospital twice or three times a day when I was growing up.
We also could hear "Morning Colors" in the morning, and Taps at night, played over the PA system on the big tower.

Checkerboard Strangler said:

I knew a few Southerners who were not racist in the least, not that it did much good.
It was noble of them but the fact is, if you wanted to keep your job, or keep your house, or maintain stability and security in your family, and you lived in the South and you were white, you'd best keep your mouth shut, unless you wanted to pay the price.

So I don't know if I can blanket the entirety of all Southerners with the racist tag but in the end it's a moot point because the power of the groups who were racist was enough to scare the good sense out of a lot of people.

As a motorhead, let me break it down for you along hot rodding lines.
NASCAR was definitely the most racist motor sport there ever was but NHRA (the 1/4 mile dragster people) were among the first to dissolve the color barrier.
Sure, you still see plenty of the "white trashy three B" (beard, belly, baseball cap) types in the NHRA but you'll see mechanics and drivers of all colors all working, drinking and racing together.
And of course the "Formula Un" (Formula One) people don't give two ****s what color you are, as long as you can handle 225 MPH in the straights and keep the revs above 15 thousand.
If you see F1 people acting racist, it's because they are Euro-trash themselves

And of course the pedigreed show car people, they just care about the money, and if you HAVE the money, welcome to the Concours d'Elegance. Be ready to lay it down on some bids when the auctions start!
Funny enough, the same goes for the lower levels of the show car crowd, if you can fabricate and do a rotisserie frame off resto and make a car look original or you can do a stunning resto-mod, no one is concerned with your color.

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Sure. Some Southerners weren't racists during Jim Crow. And a lot of people living in the South are not racists today. But, the overall theme of the former confederate states is still very much racist.

Checkerboard Strangler said:

Well to be HONEST I've been keeping up with Arlo.
If ONLY more Republicans were still like he is, I think Repubs and Dems could fix EVERYTHING, and it would be done FAST and SURE.
Arlo is still a good guy.
He said, "We already had enough good Democrats, we need to have someone in the loyal opposition." and I have no problem with that.

As I've said before, I do not carry a broad sweeping hatred or prejudice against ALL Republicans or even all conservatives and I have some conservative views myself, even though I ID as a liberal.
Like my sig says, "The left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."

I remember the Wobblies (LOL)

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Even tho he's turned grey, he still plays a mean guitar. And he still has a terrific sense of humor.

My grand niece and nephew, fiddle and piano, mandolin and piano respectively, are now performing with one of his grandsons, guitar, mandolin, banjo and piano. They're all studying at Juilliard. Working with many of their friends and classmates as guests. I suspect that will firm up in time. I toured with the two of them last summer in Europe, as acoustic rhythm guitarist and chaperone, tho my wife chaperoned the three of us. My god, she was totally a PITA. She ruined two of my credit cards. I had my revenge, bought a new Lowden guitar for more than $10k, a beauty. It even makes me sound good. :shock:

OldFatGuy said:

Even tho he's turned grey, he still plays a mean guitar. And he still has a terrific sense of humor.

My grand niece and nephew, fiddle and piano, mandolin and piano respectively, are now performing with one of his grandsons, guitar, mandolin, banjo and piano. They're all studying at Juilliard. Working with many of their friends and classmates as guests. I suspect that will firm up in time. I toured with the two of them last summer in Europe, as acoustic rhythm guitarist and chaperone, tho my wife chaperoned the three of us. My god, she was totally a PITA. She ruined two of my credit cards. I had my revenge, bought a new Lowden guitar for more than $10k, a beauty. It even makes me sound good. :shock:

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Oh really? Good on you, hangin out with the Arlo fam.
Good on you getting the Lowden guitar too, by the way.
Next time, consider something by Scott Lawrence, who makes D'Lorenzo guitars.

Scott has been a family friend for FIFTY YEARS, the man knows his craft.


BTW, when you said you got your revenge, it made me think of that commercial where the guy is driving and his wife and kids are all earphoned to their smartphones.:lamo

"I got a brand new putter you don't EVEN know about."

Checkerboard Strangler said:

Oh really? Good on you, hangin out with the Arlo fam.
Good on you getting the Lowden guitar too, by the way.
Next time, consider something by Scott Lawrence, who makes D'Lorenzo guitars.

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I haven't come across Scott previously, however I appreciate his skills. Having done some restoration work over the years, and still doing more, I know my own limitations with the craft and respect those more advanced. It's tough for independent luthiers to find markets for their work today, even when showcasing at the bluegrass and folk festivals. The larger companies, Taylor, Martin, even the newly independent once again Guild, are making some amazing new and classic instruments. And luthiers meeting at the festivals and shows are gaining traction as they join together forming new companies. Some of them are eating the lunch of companies like Dean, L'arrivee, Seagull, and so on, with moderate priced but find sounding acoustics for younger artists, and old guys first starting after retirement.

The Lowden I picked up, an F50C, made from African Blackwood (a relative of rosewood), a soundboard made from red spruce harvested 500 years ago, and a solid ebony neck is the best sounding master tone steel string guitar I've owned or played. My everyday guitar is a Guild NJ45 212 with sides and back from maple with a spruce top, maple neck and ebony fretboard, bought new, it is almost 40 years old and sounds terrific, clear, bright with a solid base. It doesn't approach the Lowden for master tones. My other main guitar is a Taylor Auditorium model made from claro walnut, from the days before Taylor started adding electronics to their guitars, bought shortly after my Guild. Close in tonal quality to the Lowden, but still not as excellent. I still have a total of 19 guitars in my collection, some real trash I hold onto for sentimental reasons, like my two Stella parlor guitars that sold through the Sears catalog during the 1930's for $19.95. A Kalamazoo parlor guitar that sold new for $14.95, and a couple of lovely, but not so great sounding vintage Vegas. And an all original 1958 Danelectro U-1 with a coke bottle head in dark cherry red with its original white bakelite pick guard. A bunch of Martins, other Guilds and a couple of Gibsons, all acoustic. Three years ago, as a retirement gift from the family I received a Taylor Tz-5 made from Koa. My second electric guitar. It's been getting more play than I anticipated.

My good friend, Eli, is now one of the master luthiers working and teaching at Lincoln Center. He's made guitars for Montoya, Segovia, Paco de Luca, John McLoughlin and many others. When I met him 40 years ago I was shocked to find his guitars selling for $3-4k, I hadn't spent at that time more than $200 for a guitar at a pawn shop. Today his guitars start at $50-60k. He's 86 and still creating. He recently gifted a custom guitar to Miloš Karadaglić, valued by the insurer for $120k.

This is Milos, not the guitar:

gdgyva said:

having lived in the DC area for 24 years, there are a few places you MUST see

one is the Holocaust museum

There are so many wings of the Smithsonian that unless you have weeks, you will never see it all....and some are 15-20 miles outside of the city

And then the new African American Museum which opened a few months before we left in Sept 16....

Every city has it culture and must see places....New York, Los Angeles, Boston, etc

But imo our capitol is the must see of all of them....and if you can do it during the Cherry Blossom festival, well....you wont regret it

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I wasn't particularly impressed by the Holocaust museum and the people who worked there were some of the unfriendliest I have encountered at any museum.

We were discussing the African American Museum. I am unaware of any other new one in DC so I just assumed people knew that was what I was speaking of.

My favorite Smithsonian Museum I cannot even remember the name of. It is the one with the train in it on same side as air and space. I thought of it as the Museum of random stuff. Been to air & Space so many times I could be a tour guide there. American History has some interesting stuff, but some of it is over-rated.

backpacker said:

I wasn't particularly impressed by the Holocaust museum and the people who worked there were some of the unfriendliest I have encountered at any museum.

We were discussing the African American Museum. I am unaware of any other new one in DC so I just assumed people knew that was what I was speaking of.

My favorite Smithsonian Museum I cannot even remember the name of. It is the one with the train in it on same side as air and space. I thought of it as the Museum of random stuff. Been to air & Space so many times I could be a tour guide there. American History has some interesting stuff, but some of it is over-rated.

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Pretty sure that is History & Technology....

Has a whole section called Railroad Hall

so many places to go....the one very few ever mention is the Smithsonian gardens

gdgyva said:

Pretty sure that is History & Technology....

Has a whole section called Railroad Hall

so many places to go....the one very few ever mention is the Smithsonian gardens

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Might be science and Technology. Seems like there are some medical gizmos in there as well. Been awhile since I went. I basically popped into it because I was walking past when a lashing rain started up. I just remember it was like finding treasure by accident going into it.