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Education Moron...er, Secretary

History can often be argued - just look at how many in the Deep South argue to this day that the Civil War wasn't about slavery (remember, I was raised there, too)...so it's hard to set "minimum standards" on subjects that are a matter of social contention It's much harder, however, to argue against principles of STEM - science, technology, engineering, and math. Those are where the minimum standards need to be set. Oh, and I would personally include proficiency in English and at least one more language, for we only short-change our own young by not requiring that they expand their minds by learning other languages.

One more thing - since there's so much more to learn today than there was even fifty years ago, I'd also add at least one more year - two years would be better - to public education. Time was that a high school education was enough to go out and get a career job that would provide for a home and a family...but that time is long past - there's so much more to know to be able to function effectively in the modern world.

Yes, this proves why each state need be in charge if its own educational mission. Two reasonable people can disagree about a proper future path. One could be right, the other less right, both could be right or both wrong. We dont know the future, the unintended consequences of any possible action or inaction, the externalities positive, negative and overlapping. I like the idea of 50 separate innovative, competitive and cooperating incubators of democracy. People feel more satisfied when controlling more of their own destinies.

We need more avenues and venues for allowing people to learn and excel not just in academics but more hands on hand work. To eighth grade perhaps learning the basics solidly, and am just thinking maybe a mix of academics and hands on industrial arts home econish courses for a ninth grade year before three years of one or the other, it being a student /parent choice.

No additional year needed in my book. Kids are already being delayed growing up, getting started in life late as it is. So we agree to disagree. At the same Iime I would disagree that your state must be forced to abide by whzt I and my state, who might hold a majority with other states and want our principles adopted, mandated nationally.

The folks in each state should choose what they think best for their own children, the national state does not have superior rights than do the states nor parents in this regard, not constitutionally.

You sorta side stepped the specific example minimum standard issue by the tangent into which subects should engage in producing minimum standards.

Many of us who argue the causes of the Civil War understand the importance of slavery. But, like everything else, its bit more nuanced than that. Much of the contention between the two sections of then America, including slavery, is properly placed under the banner of states rights. And though a born yankee ( Motown, Detroit ) after study of the South's position, while being against slavery, and a proud and partiotic US citizen, I can see the argument they had regarding secession as plausible for that time.

There were a ton of factors besides states rights and slavery, including dwindling relative population in the South resulting in less representation and loss of political power, Northern industrial manufacturing and shipping interests competing with, often dominating southern agriculture, European immigration, tariffs...

Which is why statuary of Civil Warriors, aside from often being very period piece art relics should be retained, at least put it to a vote locally. These represent more than the racist caricatures to which theyve been reduced...

You study history, besides a few, Rommel and his Germans come to mind, by far our most challenging opponents, the most incisive and decisive generals, individual and group bravery and sheer fortitude on the field of battle... have been these very brave fellow Americans, 90% of whom didnt own slaves but fought for pride, heritage, freedom ...their sovereign states as they understood it, the right of their states to withdraw from a voluntary confederation later federalized wherein they, these states felt the agreement, the constitution as originally agreed upon had been breached. We can all now agree slavery is a sin, obvious to us. To them, that was how it had always been, but again, it was 10% who owned and it was legal... Had never been otherwise.

The South, just like everybody else, doesnt like maintaining a reneged upon agreement nor being told what they must do. Check their, each, the secession declarations of the individual states of their independence from the Union.

Slavery is hardly mentioned. But thats another thread
 
I'm a big fan of charter school but Devos is not qualified for the job.
 
So it's pretty much the opposite of all that then? That's what a post like that generally indicates.

It really depends on the character and content of the person's posts to make the final determination. :shrug:

Uh yeah. I will keep that in mind, but it makes absolutely no never mind to me what other's determinations might be. Ultimately the only determination I truly care about is mine own. Why should I be unhappy just because somebody else is, or wants me to be?

Yano?
 
A random person pulled off the street and told to defend DeVoss's positions could have done a better interview than she did.

Isnt that how the left recruits its leaders already? They are so brilliantly progressive they will soon start requiring that to get elected that you must be an illegal black transgendered to now being female drunk driving homicide fugitive of justice in a sanctuary city/state... yano?

Thank god they were pulled off the street tho, huh?
 
We can all now agree slavery is a sin, obvious to us. To them, that was how it had always been, but again, it was 10% who owned and it was legal... Had never been otherwise.

You're being a bit generous. Britain had already abolished slavery. There were plenty of abolitionists. Think about it for a moment. Human beings trapped in forced labor camps for generations! Even I haven't fully been able to grasp the enormity of the evil.

The Confederates were on par with the Nazis in terms of evil. Slaves were beaten to death, tortured and raped. We minimize what happened and make all kinds of excuses.
 
I wonder if you realize just how greatly you changed the meaning of that song by having the singer speak to a dead animal "Carrion" instead of using the original lyric, "Carry on"

I would say, oh I think I do... but instead I think I will take the fifth here thus indicating neither guilt nor innocence. Its just too diabolically clever and so I am simply inherently incapable, just ask my detractors ...:mrgreen:


Good catch btw. Not that I was wondering if anybody would. :peace
 
You're being a bit generous. Britain had already abolished slavery. There were plenty of abolitionists. Think about it for a moment. Human beings trapped in forced labor camps for generations! Even I haven't fully been able to grasp the enormity of the evil.

The Confederates were on par with the Nazis in terms of evil. Slaves were beaten to death, tortured and raped. We minimize what happened and make all kinds of excuses.
No practical use in engaging. Your post shows little sign of ever having read much real history besides the likes of the horrors propounded by social activist Zinn.

Forgive them lord, for they know not of what they speak.
 
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Ah. So..."if you don't meet standards, we're NOT going to allow you to afford what you need in order to meet those standards". Is that it? Because one of the biggest reasons schools fail is because they're already underfunded - they can't attract better teachers, and their facilities are crappy, and what extracurricular activities they do offer are also underfunded.

Here's a clue: if a school is failing, you don't bring that school back up to standards by making it even harder for that school to succeed. You don't improve schools by applying the financial equivalent of "the beatings will continue until morale improves!"

True, but on the other hand giving schools money because the students are not doing well just might turn out to be counterproductive.
The government is good at throwing money at a problem and hoping it will be solved. The reality is that, while schools do need adequate funding, the interaction of parents, teachers, and administration is of paramount importance, as is interactions in the classroom. Not only that, but the "failing" schools are nearly always the ones that serve children of poverty, who are far more difficult to teach than are middle class children.
 
True, but on the other hand giving schools money because the students are not doing well just might turn out to be counterproductive.
The government is good at throwing money at a problem and hoping it will be solved. The reality is that, while schools do need adequate funding, the interaction of parents, teachers, and administration is of paramount importance, as is interactions in the classroom. Not only that, but the "failing" schools are nearly always the ones that serve children of poverty, who are far more difficult to teach than are middle class children.

kids living in poverty are not there of their own fault or volition. Throwing money at those poor schools may not be the be-all-end-all to the school's problems, but reducing their funding sure as hell isn't going to help.

States need to fund ALL of their school districts equally, and not base funding on property values.
 
You study history, besides a few, Rommel and his Germans come to mind, by far our most challenging opponents, the most incisive and decisive generals, individual and group bravery and sheer fortitude on the field of battle... have been these very brave fellow Americans, 90% of whom didnt own slaves but fought for pride, heritage, freedom ...their sovereign states as they understood it, the right of their states to withdraw from a voluntary confederation later federalized wherein they, these states felt the agreement, the constitution as originally agreed upon had been breached. We can all now agree slavery is a sin, obvious to us. To them, that was how it had always been, but again, it was 10% who owned and it was legal... Had never been otherwise.

The South, just like everybody else, doesnt like maintaining a reneged upon agreement nor being told what they must do. Check their, each, the secession declarations of the individual states of their independence from the Union.

Slavery is hardly mentioned. But thats another thread

I grew up in Mississippi and was told again and again and again that the Civil War was never about slavery, but was instead about economics. But we were never shown our articles of secession and - this being in the days before the internet - such wasn't easily available to us. But thanks to the internet, I can see that the first paragraph of Mississippi's Articles of Secession reads thus:

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin.

Yeah, the Civil War was about slavery. The vice-president of the Confederacy said much the same thing in his "Cornerstone speech".

I will agree that many - perhaps even most - Confederate soldiers may not have realized that the preservation of slavery was the single greatest factor in their secession and the subsequent civil war...but that's no different from how most of the Wehrmacht probably did not know about Hitler's "final solution" for Jewry. However, pretty much all of the Wehrmacht knew of how their leaders had vilified and encouraged oppression of the Jews...just like every single one of those Confederate soldiers knew that their side supported the preservation of slavery. I grew up loving my Southern heritage (my direct line is buried in the same small cemetery in the MS Delta all the way back to 1870 - I'll be the first one not buried there), but just as most modern Germans look back at Nazism with shame, now that I know more about what my family had to have taken part in, I look back upon the Confederacy with shame. Just as Nazism should be remembered as a cautionary tale but never glorified, the Confederacy should likewise be remembered as a cautionary tale but never glorified.
 
True, but on the other hand giving schools money because the students are not doing well just might turn out to be counterproductive.
The government is good at throwing money at a problem and hoping it will be solved. The reality is that, while schools do need adequate funding, the interaction of parents, teachers, and administration is of paramount importance, as is interactions in the classroom. Not only that, but the "failing" schools are nearly always the ones that serve children of poverty, who are far more difficult to teach than are middle class children.

And why do you think that is? Because many - perhaps most - schools are funded by local property taxes...and in areas that are poverty-ridden, the property tax revenue will be of course much lower than in rich areas...and so the schools there are almost always underfunded...and so the poverty is perpetuated.

Conversely, the schools that are funded by property taxes in rich areas have MUCH better funding, and can more easily afford better teachers and better facilities...and so their success is perpetuated.

In other words, while giving more money to underfunded schools in poverty-ridden areas is not guaranteed to improve the performance of those schools, NOT giving more money (or giving even less money) to those schools is pretty much guaranteed to NOT improve those schools, or to even result in worse performance.
 
kids living in poverty are not there of their own fault or volition. Throwing money at those poor schools may not be the be-all-end-all to the school's problems, but reducing their funding sure as hell isn't going to help.

States need to fund ALL of their school districts equally, and not base funding on property values.

Bolded: Absolutely! That would be one reform that could pay big dividends. It shouldn't be necessary to buy a half million dollar house in the "good" part of town in order for your kids to get a decent education.
 
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