Trump vs Obama on the economy

Bucky · Mar 10, 2018

U.S. employers added 313,000 jobs last month. The Labor Department report shows much stronger job growth than analysts expected. They'd been predicting an increase of about 200,000 jobs. Another good sign: workers returned to the workforce in the highest numbers in 35 years.

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/09/5924...s-so-good-it-caught-many-economists-off-guard

I have to give a fair amount of credit to Trump for what he is doing with the economy. When Obama was President, you saw stagnant growth. When you look at the history of the United States, deep recessions are followed by substantial recovery. Under Obama, his policies stifled the recovery coming after the recession.

Obama basically implemented cartoonish Keynesianism policies in an attempt to spur the economy:

* Tax hikes on American citizens
* Spending Stimulus
* Temporary homebuyer tax credits
* Tempory payroll tax cuts
* Cash for Clunkers
* Fed money creation
* 0% Interest rates

I can go over these 7 bullet point "accomplishments" for Obama and explain why each one did very little for the economy yet the media wants to praise these as some sort of success?

None of these policies actually worked and the economy did not see the substantial growth typically that happens after a deep recession. In fact, I would argue if Obama did nothing, the economy would have done better.

Trump meanwhile has stepped on the gas peddle and we are seeing the economy go in turbo drive. Deregulation has allowed the business community to breathe. The tax cuts essentially are paying for itself and spurring economic growth.

GDP growth is a product or productivity increase and employment increase and Trump has done this unquestionably. When the economy grows, the deficits will decrease and revenue will increase. Trump understands this because he comes from a business background. Obama came from an academic background and failed miserably on the economy.

The U.S economy was barely growing under Obama. I am dumbfounded in how he was getting so much praise for the horrible job he did on the economy.

MovingPictures · Mar 10, 2018

Bucky said:
https://www.npr.org/2018/03/09/5924...s-so-good-it-caught-many-economists-off-guard

I have to give a fair amount of credit to Trump for what he is doing with the economy. When Obama was President, you saw stagnant growth. When you look at the history of the United States, deep recessions are followed by substantial recovery. Under Obama, his policies stifled the recovery coming after the recession.

Obama basically implemented cartoonish Keynesianism policies in an attempt to spur the economy:

* Tax hikes on American citizens
* Spending Stimulus
* Temporary homebuyer tax credits
* Tempory payroll tax cuts
* Cash for Clunkers
* Fed money creation
* 0% Interest rates

I can go over these 7 bullet point "accomplishments" for Obama and explain why each one did very little for the economy yet the media wants to praise these as some sort of success?

None of these policies actually worked and the economy did not see the substantial growth typically that happens after a deep recession. In fact, I would argue if Obama did nothing, the economy would have done better.

Trump meanwhile has stepped on the gas peddle and we are seeing the economy go in turbo drive. Deregulation has allowed the business community to breathe. The tax cuts essentially are paying for itself and spurring economic growth.

GDP growth is a product or productivity increase and employment increase and Trump has done this unquestionably. When the economy grows, the deficits will decrease and revenue will increase. Trump understands this because he comes from a business background. Obama came from an academic background and failed miserably on the economy.

The U.S economy was barely growing under Obama. I am dumbfounded in how he was getting so much praise for the horrible job he did on the economy.

Except employment rates were skyrocketing under Obama, which is one of the central factors that drives economic growth.:2wave:

And most people are aware of this, hence why Trump is not completely getting away with taking credit for the economy.

gulfman · Mar 10, 2018

If people start looking for jobs again we are doomed.They dont count people who are not looking for jobs in the employment rate.Stay on welfare and food stamps so we dont go into a depression.

Bucky · Mar 10, 2018

MovingPictures said:
Except employment rates were skyrocketing under Obama, which is one of the central factors that drives economic growth.:2wave:

And most people are aware of this, hence why Trump is not completely getting away with taking credit for the economy.

Job growth is different from wage growth. We saw a 2.8% hike in wages for the month of February, which by the way is the shortest month of the year.

The job report was essentially perfect. Obama created jobs, yes at the end of tenure you did see some job growth however under Trump you are seeing wage growth which is far more impressive.

DamnYankee · Mar 10, 2018

BO had very little to do with today's booming economy. Very little. And people realize this. Obamanomics hindered growth/recovery.

Velvet Elvis · Mar 10, 2018

Bucky said:
I have to give a fair amount of credit to Trump for what he is doing with the economy.

I commend your OP.

It's understandable that folks can hate the infantile things he tweets. It's fair to complain about his harsh, non-political way of carrying himself. But it's disingenuous and weak-minded to deny the positive things that have happened in the last year. Everything people predicted about the economy under Trump was done with blinding hatred and partisanship. None of those predictions have come true (yet).

Yes...Obama might have stopped the recession, but he did nothing in regards to it's recovery. Job growth did not keep up with demand. Unemployment was very high. Those "shovel-ready" jobs he crowed about dried up within a year. His was an administration of stagnation. The economy fell, but it just stayed at that low level without going back up. What has happened under Trump's administration has been beyond expectations. While Obama would hang a halo over his head when we'd see a gain of 30,000 jobs in a month, Trump is seeing gains of 300,000+. And all the while being under fire by the democrats, republicans and the media.

DamnYankee · Mar 10, 2018

Bucky said:
https://www.npr.org/2018/03/09/5924...s-so-good-it-caught-many-economists-off-guard

I have to give a fair amount of credit to Trump for what he is doing with the economy. When Obama was President, you saw stagnant growth. When you look at the history of the United States, deep recessions are followed by substantial recovery. Under Obama, his policies stifled the recovery coming after the recession.

Obama basically implemented cartoonish Keynesianism policies in an attempt to spur the economy:

* Tax hikes on American citizens
* Spending Stimulus
* Temporary homebuyer tax credits
* Tempory payroll tax cuts
* Cash for Clunkers
* Fed money creation
* 0% Interest rates

I can go over these 7 bullet point "accomplishments" for Obama and explain why each one did very little for the economy yet the media wants to praise these as some sort of success?

None of these policies actually worked and the economy did not see the substantial growth typically that happens after a deep recession. In fact, I would argue if Obama did nothing, the economy would have done better.

Trump meanwhile has stepped on the gas peddle and we are seeing the economy go in turbo drive. Deregulation has allowed the business community to breathe. The tax cuts essentially are paying for itself and spurring economic growth.

GDP growth is a product or productivity increase and employment increase and Trump has done this unquestionably. When the economy grows, the deficits will decrease and revenue will increase. Trump understands this because he comes from a business background. Obama came from an academic background and failed miserably on the economy.

The U.S economy was barely growing under Obama. I am dumbfounded in how he was getting so much praise for the horrible job he did on the economy.

Yeah, what Velvet Elvis said. Times a thousand.

MovingPictures · Mar 10, 2018

Velvet Elvis said:
I commend your OP.

It's understandable that folks can hate the infantile things he tweets. It's fair to complain about his harsh, non-political way of carrying himself. But it's disingenuous and weak-minded to deny the positive things that have happened in the last year. Everything people predicted about the economy under Trump was done with blinding hatred and partisanship. None of those predictions have come true (yet).

Yes...Obama might have stopped the recession, but he did nothing in regards to it's recovery. Job growth did not keep up with demand. Unemployment was very high. Those "shovel-ready" jobs he crowed about dried up within a year. His was an administration of stagnation. The economy fell, but it just stayed at that low level without going back up. What has happened under Trump's administration has been beyond expectations. While Obama would hang a halo over his head when we'd see a gain of 30,000 jobs in a month, Trump is seeing gains of 300,000+. And all the while being under fire by the democrats, republicans and the media.

The economy has been well on a recovery for over six years now -- the stats prove it. It took awhile for the economy to recover, because the Republicans left an absolute mess for the coming administration at the end of 2008, and now they're riding the wave of work they had nothing to do with at all.

Jobs were continuously added under the Obama economy. In fact, Trumps first year in office resulted in the lowest job growth in six years, so you really are just repeating PR from the WH at this point. I'm sure there's some Voodoo that you think makes Trump some economic genius, but there's simply no evidence of it in regards to job numbers.

apdst · Mar 10, 2018

MovingPictures said:
The economy has been well on a recovery for over six years now -- the stats prove it. It took awhile for the economy to recover, because the Republicans left an absolute mess for the coming administration at the end of 2008, and now they're riding the wave of work they had nothing to do with at all.

Jobs were continuously added under the Obama economy. In fact, Trumps first year in office resulted in the lowest job growth in six years, so you really are just repeating PR from the WH at this point. I'm sure there's some Voodoo that you think makes Trump some economic genius, but there's simply no evidence of it in regards to job numbers.

The Democrats were in charge at the end of 2008 and had been for two years.

chuckiechan · Mar 10, 2018

Velvet Elvis said:
I commend your OP.

It's understandable that folks can hate the infantile things he tweets. It's fair to complain about his harsh, non-political way of carrying himself. But it's disingenuous and weak-minded to deny the positive things that have happened in the last year. Everything people predicted about the economy under Trump was done with blinding hatred and partisanship. None of those predictions have come true (yet).

Yes...Obama might have stopped the recession, but he did nothing in regards to it's recovery. Job growth did not keep up with demand. Unemployment was very high. Those "shovel-ready" jobs he crowed about dried up within a year. His was an administration of stagnation. The economy fell, but it just stayed at that low level without going back up. What has happened under Trump's administration has been beyond expectations. While Obama would hang a halo over his head when we'd see a gain of 30,000 jobs in a month, Trump is seeing gains of 300,000+. And all the while being under fire by the democrats, republicans and the media.

I don’t recall Bill Clinton thanking a Bush 1 for the great economy he inherited due to Rumsfelds base closings and the dot com boom.

It’s just the way it is. To try to go back and give an ex president credit is just plain dumb. No one cares anymore because it doesn’t matter anymore.

Trump loves the private sector, democrats hate it. Democrats love jobs but hate businesses.

eohrnberger · Mar 10, 2018

And yet, in spite of Trump leading an economic revival by doing the right things, as have been listed in the OP, especially a revival in economic optimism of the populace, which was never present under the Obama admin,

And in spite of these positive things already done, Trump has most recently imposed trade tariffs which would appear to have the potential to bring little more than higher economic costs to the end consumers, and possibly retaliatory tariffs and worsening trade relations with historically good trading partners.

Hmmm...

TOHWS · Mar 10, 2018

Please, Trump has done very little for the economy. It’s seriously easy to have a good economy when it’s handed over to you! Stable industry, record jobs created, stock market with excellent returns. Obama did all the heavy lifting.

This myth that Obama’s policies stifled the recovery are ridiculous.

When you to work with from the start a GDP of -8.9 and get it back to 2.0, I think requires much recognition!

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TOHWS · Mar 10, 2018

apdst said:
The Democrats were in charge at the end of 2008 and had been for two years.

Yes they were. So name the policy the democrats passed in congress and Bush signed that destroyed the economy?

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apdst · Mar 10, 2018

TOHWS said:
Yes they were. So name the policy the democrats passed in congress and Bush signed that destroyed the economy?

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Name the policy that caused the recession (the economy wasn't "destroyed").

Bucky · Mar 10, 2018

TOHWS said:
Please, Trump has done very little for the economy. It’s seriously easy to have a good economy when it’s handed over to you! Stable industry, record jobs created, stock market with excellent returns. Obama did all the heavy lifting.

This myth that Obama’s policies stifled the recovery are ridiculous.

When you to work with from the start a GDP of -8.9 and get it back to 2.0, I think requires much recognition!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you look at the history of the United States, deep recessions have always been followed by economic growth.

It does not require any recognition but condemnation. Doing nothing would have caused more growth instead of the silly policies implemented by Obama.

TOHWS · Mar 10, 2018

Bucky said:
If you look at the history of the United States, deep recessions have always been followed by economic growth.

It does not require any recognition but condemnation. Doing nothing would have caused more growth instead of the silly policies implemented by Obama.

That is a myth. The most serious recessions we have had are the Bush 2007 and Reagan 1982. The Great Depression required a war to pull us out of.

The most structural economic damage ever faced by a president was Obama. FDR nor Reagan had the near insurmountable challenges Obama faced.

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AustralianuS · Mar 10, 2018

MovingPictures said:
Except employment rates were skyrocketing under Obama, which is one of the central factors that drives economic growth.:2wave:

And most people are aware of this, hence why Trump is not completely getting away with taking credit for the economy.

https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000

bottomed out under uncle barry at 62.5% of US population 16 or above looking for work... uncle barry crushed 3.3% of Americans so badly they gave the F up and stopped looking. That is OVER 5% of every 16+ year old Americans who said F it Im out under uncle barry.

And this is assumes a constant population - which it is not because the population is always growing.. so actual number of people economically destroyed by uncle barry was above 5%

In a single year Uncle Donny has gotten almost 1%, of a higher base population that uncle barry, BACK INTO THE LABOR MARKET.

this is why the US can add over 300k jobs and the unemployment rate remain steady at around 4% - which is considered full employment.

Donald Trump says job market is getting non-workers working. Is it? | PolitiFact

'Trump said that "we’re … getting into the pool of the 100 million people that are not working. That pool is now coming back."

The statistics that shine the most direct light on working-age Americans support Trump’s point.'

SonOfDaedalus · Mar 11, 2018

Bucky said:
When you look at the history of the United States, deep recessions are followed by substantial recovery.

False.

IN 2009, Carmen Reinhart and Kenneth Rogoff published This Time is Different, an empirical study of financial crises going back to the Middle Ages. Widely lauded by economists of all stripes, the book shows that recoveries following financial crises take a long time. Barack Obama, the U.S. president, has taken this message on the road to explain why he ought to be reelected despite a lacklustre economic record. Unsurprisingly, economists sympathetic to Mitt Romney, Mr Obama’s Republican challenger, have produced studies claiming that the slow recovery is not due to the legacy of the financial crisis but rather the incumbent’s allegedly growth-stifling policies. Fortunately, Ms Reinhart and Mr Rogoff have published a new paper (no link, sorry) that clarifies the issues from an apolitical perspective. Their central finding is that their critics have misinterpreted the data.

https://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2012/10/financial-crises

Show me what economic index or figure has changed under Trump and show me that same figure under Obama.

Show me the numbers.

You don't have a clue what you're talking about.

Velvet Elvis · Mar 11, 2018

chuckiechan said:
I don’t recall Bill Clinton thanking a Bush 1 for the great economy he inherited due to Rumsfelds base closings and the dot com boom.

Yes, Clinton rode a wave that had already been booming, but that wasn't because of Bush. It was because of developing technologies. The dot.com boom would have happened regardless of who was in the White House.

It’s just the way it is. To try to go back and give an ex president credit is just plain dumb. No one cares anymore because it doesn’t matter anymore.

Except for democrats who give "credit" to every negative thing that ever happened. To them, democrat presidents are like gods. It's a religion to them. Especially Black Jesus.

Trump loves the private sector, democrats hate it. Democrats love jobs but hate businesses.

Democrats love control. Absolute control, like totalitarianism. The more freedom people have, the less control. The fewer on welfare, the less control.

Velvet Elvis · Mar 11, 2018

AustralianuS said:
'Trump said that "we’re … getting into the pool of the 100 million people that are not working. That pool is now coming back."

Weird how he uses that "we" word. I've gotten so used to Black Jesus saying "I" all the time.

SonOfDaedalus · Mar 11, 2018

Bucky said:
If you look at the history of the United States, deep recessions have always been followed by economic growth.

It does not require any recognition but condemnation. Doing nothing would have caused more growth instead of the silly policies implemented by Obama.

I already linked you to an article in the economists that looked at every fiscal recession since the middle ages and concluded that fiscal recessions take longer.

IN 2009, Carmen Reinhart and Kenneth Rogoff published This Time is Different, an empirical study of financial crises going back to the Middle Ages. Widely lauded by economists of all stripes, the book shows that recoveries following financial crises take a long time.

https://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2012/10/financial-crises

All you're proving is that you have no idea what you're talking about. You can't point to any number that has changed significantly under Trump.

Vern · Mar 11, 2018

eohrnberger said:
especially a revival in economic optimism of the populace, which was never present under the Obama admin,

amazeballs. Eohrn, you seem to forget that you were told the stimulus would cause hyperinflation, dollar collapse, market to zero. And that's on top of conservatives believing President Obama was a secret muslim Kenyan terrorist who was setting up death panels. Every bit of positive economic news was attacked by the right as well as any attempt to improve the economy. So if you want to complain about negativity, hold the liars accountable for creating it.

And fyi, I was very optimistic when President Obama not only saved my retirement but he also saved capitalism.

humbolt · Mar 11, 2018

Vern said:
amazeballs. Eohrn, you seem to forget that you were told the stimulus would cause hyperinflation, dollar collapse, market to zero. And that's on top of conservatives believing President Obama was a secret muslim Kenyan terrorist who was setting up death panels. Every bit of positive economic news was attacked by the right as well as any attempt to improve the economy. So if you want to complain about negativity, hold the liars accountable for creating it.

And fyi, I was very optimistic when President Obama not only saved my retirement but saved capitalism.

Yes, Obama saved the entire ****ing universe. The waters didn't recede, but what the hell. He's still the greatest ever. Pulling out of Iraq was a stroke of genius.

Vern · Mar 11, 2018

humbolt said:
Yes, Obama saved the entire ****ing universe. The waters didn't recede, but what the hell. He's still the greatest ever. Pulling out of Iraq was a stroke of genius.

I responded to exactly to what eorhn posted. You simply flailed at my post. One of those is debate. One is not. Someday you will attempt to respond in an honest and intelligent fashion. Someday.

humbolt · Mar 11, 2018

Vern said:
I responded to exactly to what eorhn posted. You simply flailed at my post. One of those is debate. One is not. Someday you will attempt to respond in an honest and intelligent fashion. Someday.

Well Vern, if I were you, since you're a special case, I wouldn't hold my breath.

Trump vs Obama on the economy

Bucky

MovingPictures

WE'LL DO IT LIVE!

gulfman

Bucky

DamnYankee

Velvet Elvis

DamnYankee

MovingPictures

WE'LL DO IT LIVE!

apdst

chuckiechan

eohrnberger

TOHWS

Member

TOHWS

Member

apdst

Bucky

TOHWS

Member

AustralianuS

SonOfDaedalus

Velvet Elvis

Velvet Elvis

SonOfDaedalus

Vern

back from Vegas

humbolt

Vern

back from Vegas

humbolt