• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Mayor Tips Off Criminals To Police Raids

AustralianuS

Banned
Joined
Mar 2, 2018
Messages
1,074
Reaction score
78
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
How in the world is this acceptable?

The mayor of Oakland issued a public statement warning the entire world that Immigration officers were planning mass arrests. This allowed an untold number of people to avoid capture.

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loc...Over-Her-ICE-Warning-to-Public-475214493.html

Her supporters will pretend she was only protecting innocent people.

The reality is many of the people who evaded capture had other criminal violations. including gang members, sex offenders, pedophiles and other violent offenders.

These are the people she was protecting.
 
1000 charges of obstruction of justice....
 
The state police or county sheriff should affect an arrest on him pronto.
 
I can’t find a link to the actual video, I just find videos of her defending her actions. She says her source wasn’t official and the information she shared wasn’t specific.

I don’t have a problem with sanctuary cities in general but you can’t actively prevent the feds from doing their jobs. This probably crossed a line and I would expect some legal action to be taken against her.
 
How in the world is this acceptable?

The mayor of Oakland issued a public statement warning the entire world that Immigration officers were planning mass arrests. This allowed an untold number of people to avoid capture.

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loc...Over-Her-ICE-Warning-to-Public-475214493.html

Her supporters will pretend she was only protecting innocent people.

The reality is many of the people who evaded capture had other criminal violations. including gang members, sex offenders, pedophiles and other violent offenders.

These are the people she was protecting.

Yeah, single mothers working full-time or working two jobs to feed their kids are SUCH criminals....
 
Yeah, single mothers working full-time or working two jobs to feed their kids are SUCH criminals....

:doh

If they are here illegally, then by definition they are also law breakers...emotional appeal notwithstanding.

Meanwhile, the OP was pointing out correctly that MANY (not all) were career criminals.
 
Yeah, single mothers working full-time or working two jobs to feed their kids are SUCH criminals....

pedophilia is illegal, and you are fine with this politician protecting them?
 
I can’t find a link to the actual video, I just find videos of her defending her actions. She says her source wasn’t official and the information she shared wasn’t specific.

I don’t have a problem with sanctuary cities in general but you can’t actively prevent the feds from doing their jobs. This probably crossed a line and I would expect some legal action to be taken against her.

Probably crossed the line?
 
Probably crossed the line?

Yeah, because I can’t find the video of what she actually said so I don’t know what wording she used. It is possible she said just enough to get the message across without saying enough to break the law. But I have no idea.
 
I can’t find a link to the actual video, I just find videos of her defending her actions. She says her source wasn’t official and the information she shared wasn’t specific.

I don’t have a problem with sanctuary cities in general but you can’t actively prevent the feds from doing their jobs. This probably crossed a line and I would expect some legal action to be taken against her.

“I don’t have a problem with sanctuary cities in general but you can’t actively prevent the feds from doing their jobs. .”

Uhhh..... that is exactly what sanctuary cities are doing by definition of being a sanctuary city..
 
Yeah, because I can’t find the video of what she actually said so I don’t know what wording she used. It is possible she said just enough to get the message across without saying enough to break the law. But I have no idea.

Scenario:

So there's a murderer/child molester on the loose and an active investigation. The FBI has credible information on the whereabouts of said murderer/child molester and begin the process of a raid to apprehend the suspects. Meanwhile the Mayor calls the suspects or sends out an advanced warning that the FBI will be in the Tarrazas district conducting a search for suspected murderer/child rapists.

What part of this is ok? The mayor intentionally usurped the law and undermined a federal agency from doing it's job to keep legal tax paying citizens and children safe.

She's essentially a NARC. I hope North Korea chooses to test it's next missile in California.
 
“I don’t have a problem with sanctuary cities in general but you can’t actively prevent the feds from doing their jobs. .”

Uhhh..... that is exactly what sanctuary cities are doing by definition of being a sanctuary city..

Some sanctuary cities just refuse to use local resources to enforce federal laws. That is legal. That is different from actively hindering federal law enforcement from doing their own jobs, which is illegal.
 
Yeah, because I can’t find the video of what she actually said so I don’t know what wording she used. It is possible she said just enough to get the message across without saying enough to break the law. But I have no idea.
"Earlier today, I learned from multiple credible sources that the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) is preparing to conduct an operation in the Bay Area, including Oakland, starting as soon as within the next 24 hours. As Mayor of Oaklahd, I am sharing this information publicly not to panic our residents but to protect them. My priority is for the well-being and safety of all residents - particularly our most vulnerable - and I know that Oakland is safer when we share information, encourage community awareness, and care for our neighbors. Interested residents should consult the website ICE Activity Hotline | Centro Legal de la Raza to understand their legal rights and options in the event they face detention or know someone who needs legal representation."

https://twitter.com/LibbySchaaf/sta...ssues-statement-warning-of-ice-raids/3136611/
 
"Earlier today, I learned from multiple credible sources that the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) is preparing to conduct an operation in the Bay Area, including Oakland, starting as soon as within the next 24 hours. As Mayor of Oaklahd, I am sharing this information publicly not to panic our residents but to protect them. My priority is for the well-being and safety of all residents - particularly our most vulnerable - and I know that Oakland is safer when we share information, encourage community awareness, and care for our neighbors. Interested residents should consult the website ICE Activity Hotline | Centro Legal de la Raza to understand their legal rights and options in the event they face detention or know someone who needs legal representation."

https://twitter.com/LibbySchaaf/sta...ssues-statement-warning-of-ice-raids/3136611/

Thank you. That is going to be a problem for her if the feds want to make it one. I’ll be curious to see what they do and how the court treats it. Based on that statement I believe she went too far, legally speaking.
 
Scenario:

So there's a murderer/child molester on the loose and an active investigation. The FBI has credible information on the whereabouts of said murderer/child molester and begin the process of a raid to apprehend the suspects. Meanwhile the Mayor calls the suspects or sends out an advanced warning that the FBI will be in the Tarrazas district conducting a search for suspected murderer/child rapists.

What part of this is ok?

No part of that is ok. And as I said, I didn’t know what the Mayor said. Binary was kind enough to track the quote down for me and having read it I think she crossed a legal line.

I hope North Korea chooses to test it's next missile in California.

And that is my cue to be done with you.
 
pedophilia is illegal, and you are fine with this politician protecting them?

Huh? Dude, you'd better stay away from all those poppy fields down in Tasmania. That island's still one of the nicest places I've seen in my travels, though.

Anyway, before Trump, we strove to get rid of the criminals, but didn't crack down much on those who weren't breaking the law (except by actually being on this side of the border). With Trump, however, ICE is now tearing families apart and deporting the good with the bad - throwing the baby out with the bathwater, as it were.

But of course if you're supporting those right-wingers who want all non-European-white immigrants to stay out of America, then I can't help you. And it's possible that you might be one of them, since Australia did have its own problem with government-enforced racist practices for most of its history.
 
:doh

If they are here illegally, then by definition they are also law breakers...emotional appeal notwithstanding.

Meanwhile, the OP was pointing out correctly that MANY (not all) were career criminals.

What y'all are doing, though, is throwing out the baby with the bathwater, so to speak. Citizenship is not a magical thing where a person is suddenly a different human being - it's a piece of paper. People are good or bad, and that piece of paper provides precisely zero indication whether one is good or bad.

What's even worse is that y'all are really making it much harder for those law enforcement officials who work in and among minority populations...because before Trump, many cities had built up a level of trust with Hispanic communities. Now, however, Hispanics are significantly less likely to call the police even for rape:

Beck said reports of sexual assault have dropped 25% among the city's Latino population since the beginning of 2017 compared with the same period last year, adding that reports of domestic violence have fallen by 10%. Similar decreases were not seen in reports of those crimes by other ethnic groups, Beck said.

"Imagine, a young woman, imagine your daughter, your sister, your mother … not reporting a sexual assault, because they are afraid that their family will be torn apart," Beck said.


Even that conservative think tank, the Cato Institute, agrees:

Effective policing requires that crime witnesses and victims contact the police and that citizens trust law enforcement. Without such trust and communication crimes go unsolved, criminals run free, and victims live in fear. Sadly, it looks as if the Trump administration’s immigration rhetoric could have prompted a chilling effect on Latino crime reporting.
...
The fact that public approval and trust in the police are necessary conditions for effective policing seems to have been lost on officials in the Trump administration, whose anti-immigrant policy proposals could be having a negative effect on crime reporting.


When the people become afraid to call the police, crime thrives. This, CA, is precisely what your preferred politician is doing to our nation. Welcome to Trump's America.

P.S. - the above is not an emotional appeal - it's the real-world consequences of "white nationalism" run amok. Even worse, it will create a feedback loop of negative perception by the Right: less trust in law enforcement by the community leads directly to more crime. More crime leads to higher crime rates, including higher violent crime rates...and such unerringly leads to deeper poverty, which only leads to yet more crime. And then white nationalists point it out to those on the Right and tell them, "see, we were right all along! This is what brown people are really like!"
 
Last edited:
Huh? Dude, you'd better stay away from all those poppy fields down in Tasmania. That island's still one of the nicest places I've seen in my travels, though.

Anyway, before Trump, we strove to get rid of the criminals, but didn't crack down much on those who weren't breaking the law (except by actually being on this side of the border). With Trump, however, ICE is now tearing families apart and deporting the good with the bad - throwing the baby out with the bathwater, as it were.

But of course if you're supporting those right-wingers who want all non-European-white immigrants to stay out of America, then I can't help you. And it's possible that you might be one of them, since Australia did have its own problem with government-enforced racist practices for most of its history.

um, no i am not supporting that, there you go making up lies again

i just think people should have to move legally, I guess that is too complicated for you
 
um, no i am not supporting that, there you go making up lies again

i just think people should have to move legally, I guess that is too complicated for you

I never accused you of supporting anything. That's why I said the word "if". Look again...and now you can see that yes, you just falsely accused me of "making up lies".

I do try to be careful to not accuse people without proof - that's one of my pet peeves, so that's why I use "if you support" and "it's possible that you might"...because I know very well that I could be wrong, that I could have misread something...

...just as you obviously misread my post and falsely accused me of making up lies. Do be more careful next time, please.
 
What y'all are doing, though, is throwing out the baby with the bathwater, so to speak. Citizenship is not a magical thing where a person is suddenly a different human being - it's a piece of paper. People are good or bad, and that piece of paper provides precisely zero indication whether one is good or bad.

What's even worse is that y'all are really making it much harder for those law enforcement officials who work in and among minority populations...because before Trump, many cities had built up a level of trust with Hispanic communities. Now, however, Hispanics are significantly less likely to call the police even for rape:

Beck said reports of sexual assault have dropped 25% among the city's Latino population since the beginning of 2017 compared with the same period last year, adding that reports of domestic violence have fallen by 10%. Similar decreases were not seen in reports of those crimes by other ethnic groups, Beck said.

"Imagine, a young woman, imagine your daughter, your sister, your mother … not reporting a sexual assault, because they are afraid that their family will be torn apart," Beck said.


Even that conservative think tank, the Cato Institute, agrees:

Effective policing requires that crime witnesses and victims contact the police and that citizens trust law enforcement. Without such trust and communication crimes go unsolved, criminals run free, and victims live in fear. Sadly, it looks as if the Trump administration’s immigration rhetoric could have prompted a chilling effect on Latino crime reporting.
...
The fact that public approval and trust in the police are necessary conditions for effective policing seems to have been lost on officials in the Trump administration, whose anti-immigrant policy proposals could be having a negative effect on crime reporting.


When the people become afraid to call the police, crime thrives. This, CA, is precisely what your preferred politician is doing to our nation. Welcome to Trump's America.

P.S. - the above is not an emotional appeal - it's the real-world consequences of "white nationalism" run amok. Even worse, it will create a feedback loop of negative perception by the Right: less trust in law enforcement by the community leads directly to more crime. More crime leads to higher crime rates, including higher violent crime rates...and such unerringly leads to deeper poverty, which only leads to yet more crime. And then white nationalists point it out to those on the Right and tell them, "see, we were right all along! This is what brown people are really like!"

1. Citizenship isn't a magical thing...nor is it a piece of paper. It is an existential system set up by society setting boundaries, establishing the rule of law, and protecting rights for those entitled to the protections by virtue of citizenship.

Of course citizenship doesn't establish if one is good or bad. It does establish one's right to reside, work, profit from, and otherwise exist legally within that society protected by all the rights and privileges of said society.

It does not matter if the individual is good or bad, it only matters whether or not they have a legal right to be here.

Illegals do not have that legal right. That's why they are called "IL-legals"

Criminals are people who break the law. What they do is "illegal" per the laws and regulations of the society in which they live.

It does not matter if the criminal is a Robin Hood or a Jesse James...only the fact they are breaking the law does.

The fact that these people are willing to break the law to take advantages within a society that they did not respect enough to enter legally is all the evidence I need to consider them both undesirable and criminal.

2. What "Hispanics" are afraid to call the police? :roll:

Certainly not any of my acquaintance, since they are ALL either citizens or LEGAL aliens via work permits, green cards, or the legal track for citizenship.

The only people who fear to call police are those who fear discovery of a crime they may be involved in.

You are trying to raise sympathy for illegals...with me you will get no traction. :no:

Again, your arguments are based on emotion, and other fallacious positions.

The bottom line is that the OP was correct, and you are not.
 
Last edited:
1. Citizenship isn't a magical thing...nor is it a piece of paper. It is an existential system set up by society setting boundaries, establishing the rule of law, and protecting rights for those entitled to the protections by virtue of citizenship.

Of course citizenship doesn't establish if one is good or bad. It does establish one's right to reside, work, profit from, and otherwise exist legally within that society protected by all the rights and privileges of said society.

It does not matter if the individual is good or bad, it only matters whether or not they have a legal right to be here.

Illegals do not have that legal right. That's why they are called "IL-legals"

Criminals are people who break the law. What they do is "illegal" per the laws and regulations of the society in which they live.

It does not matter if the criminal is a Robin Hood or a Jesse James...only the fact they are breaking the law does.

2. What "Hispanics" are afraid to call the police? :roll:

Certainly not any of my acquaintance, since they are ALL either citizens or LEGAL aliens via work permits, green cards, or the legal track for citizenship.

The only people who fear to call police are those who fear discovery of a crime they may be involved in.

You are trying to raise sympathy for illegals...with me you will get no traction. :no:

Again, your arguments are based on emotion, and other fallacious positions.

The bottom line is that the OP was correct, and you are not.

1. Citizenship is denoted by a piece of paper. Or haven't you noticed the eagerness of many on the Right to embrace the demand "papers please" of those who don't have the proper accent or pale-enough shade of skin...and their eager defense of Arpaio for precisely such a policy?

2. And apparently you seem to be of the opinion that if someone is not a citizen, then they should not have the right to call the police if they are being raped or assaulted or otherwise being victimized in a violent crime. BTW, this also applies to those who were brought here as children - the "dreamers". So please answer if you think that calling law enforcement for help is not a human right, but only for those who are "citizens".

And NO, it's not based on emotion when it is demonstrated that the communities involved - which are themselves mostly comprised of either natural or naturalized American citizens - lose their trust in law enforcement, and so violent crime (against others regardless of citizenship or lack thereof) significantly increases - which is no good for anyone, including you. What's happening here is that rather than depending upon reason that includes consideration for simple human nature, you're trying to instead cling to an excuse that flatly ignores how the white nationalist policies directly and adversely affect US citizens in those communities.

What's disappointing is that you would indeed try to stick with that excuse - even to the point of using a variant of "I have minority friends too" when you certainly know better. Most troubling of all, however, is the possibility that you don't know better, and simply cannot see the inevitable results of such policies if allowed to continue unchecked.

Lastly, almost any policy that is too strictly enforced is bad for the people. What if all speed limits were strictly enforced, and the people punished more harshly than the fines and insurance payments they face now? Sounds nice...but something tells me you'd soon begin to hate it. Same thing with almost any law you care to name - how many times have libertarians raised hell about search warrants or taxes or minimum sentences? FYI, that's something that one learns working law enforcement - it's almost never a good thing to be overly strict in anything...and that's why your excuse (which is essentially comprised of "but it's the law!") fails.
 
How in the world is this acceptable?

The mayor of Oakland issued a public statement warning the entire world that Immigration officers were planning mass arrests. This allowed an untold number of people to avoid capture.

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loc...Over-Her-ICE-Warning-to-Public-475214493.html

Her supporters will pretend she was only protecting innocent people.

The reality is many of the people who evaded capture had other criminal violations. including gang members, sex offenders, pedophiles and other violent offenders.

These are the people she was protecting.

All foreign nationals in the US should have a federal id. Entry into the Union is a federal Obligation since 1808.
 
Back
Top Bottom