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Thread: The REAL reasons for mass shootings.

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    The REAL reasons for mass shootings.

    The guns aren't it, and neither is mental health. That said I wouldn't mind tighter background checks and more limits on semi autos, or not, I don't think that will change much either way. Nor do I think armed teachers is the answer; I'd bet a dollar to a hole in a doughnut it causes trouble before it saves anyone, we shall see.

    The thing that's causing this is the one thing NOBODY wants to look at, nobody want to take this blame because this blame can only be placed when looking in the mirror!

    Parents these days, its not lack of religion or faith, or any of that, though that stuff can be good or bad like anything, depending on it's apllication. I've seen agnostics and religious folks alike sucessfully raise great kids. The simple fact is though, most of us, well intentioned as we are, are either to caught up in making a living, the daily grind or whatever it is, and have too little idea of how even to relate to our kids much less parent. All too often parenting consists of paying not a ton of attention, till the kid gets in trouble, then getting emotionally bent, punishing too severely, maybe taking it bakc later, being inconsistent, maybe, whatever it is. Sometimes it's mild physical abuse (which does not work ultimately) maybe it's neglect.

    See they barely teach balancing a check account, interest rates, all the basic crap a kid needs to learn to adult much less prosper in this society anymore. Boys are shunned from home ec, if even it's offered anymore, and parenting classes? You gotta be kidding me, but even if it's a good kid, not having sex or making kids, how bad could a parenting course in health be for them?

    Then there's bullying, overworked, underpaid teachers not connecting. Don't get me wrong, I give this maybe 10% to teachers, 20% bullies and peers, but a good 70% of the blame is at home. Even the best intentioned parents stuggle, and kids come with no operators manual. It's time we get to acknowleging the real reason our kids get so isolated, frustrated, and feel so alone,. Most of these kids aren't sociopaths, or even necessarily bad seeds, but neglect these problems long enough and they fester, when just learning to involve ourselves, be aware what is going on with our kids, not over disciplining, and definitely not neglecting disciple (worse). No I do not suggest trying to be your kids best friend, but something between authority and friend seems about right. That extra effort to connect with opur kids, if anything can reduce these incidenst, that is the one thing that will work.
    Last edited by markjs; 03-07-18 at 11:53 PM.
    True far right conservatism, is based in selfishness, fueled by fear, and practiced by preaching that government always fails, then, when in office, proving it. Once accomplished, private entities, based on nothing but greed are there to replace government services and pick the meat off the bones of the people.

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    Re: The REAL reasons for mass shootings.

    Quote Originally Posted by markjs View Post
    The guns aren't it, and neither is mental health. That said I wouldn't mind tighter background checks and more limits on semi autos, or not, I don't think that will change much either way. Nor do I think armed teachers is the answer; I'd bet a dollar to a hole in a doughnut it causes trouble before it saves anyone, we shall see.

    The thing that's causing this is the one thing NOBODY wants to look at, nobody want to take this blame because this blame can only be placed when looking in the mirror!

    Parents these days, its not lack of religion or faith, or any of that, though that stuff can be good or bad like anything, depending on it's apllication. I've seen agnostics and religious folks alike sucessfully raise great kids. The simple fact is though, most of us, well intentioned as we are, are either to caught up in making a living, the daily grind or whatever it is, and have too little idea of how even to relate to our kids much less parent. All too often parenting consists of paying not a ton of attention, till the kid gets in trouble, then getting emotionally bent, punishing too severely, maybe taking it bakc later, being inconsistent, maybe, whatever it is. Sometimes it's mild physical abuse (which does not work ultimately) maybe it's neglect.

    See they barely teach balancing a check account, interest rates, all the basic crap a kid needs to learn to adult much less prosper in this society anymore. Boys are shunned from home ec, if even it's offered anymore, and parenting classes? You gotta be kidding me, but even if it's a good kid, not having sex or making kids, how bad could a parenting course in health be for them?

    Then there's bullying, overworked, underpaid teachers not connecting. Don't get me wrong, I give this maybe 10% to teachers, 20% bullies and peers, but a good 70% of the blame is at home. Even the best intentioned parents stuggle, and kids come with no operators manual. It's time we get to acknowleging the real reason our kids get so isolated, frustrated, and feel so alone,. Most of these kids aren't sociopaths, or even necessarily bad seeds, but neglect these problems long enough and they fester, when just learning to involve ourselves, be aware what is going on with our kids, not over disciplining, and definitely not neglecting disciple (worse). No I do not suggest trying to be your kids best friend, but something between authority and friend seems about right. That extra effort to connect with opur kids, if anything can reduce these incidenst, that is the one thing that will work.
    what do you think "semi autos" are and why should they be limited?
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Yeah; a shotgun IS a rifle; it uses a different load.
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    I'm smart on the gun issue and what we need to do about it.

  3. #3
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    Re: The REAL reasons for mass shootings.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    what do you think "semi autos" are and why should they be limited?
    Way to completely miss the point. This is proof you are not worth discussing anything with. I clearly said I'm fine with that or not, and that I don't think it's the issue and all you can do is look for a partisan fight to pick?
    True far right conservatism, is based in selfishness, fueled by fear, and practiced by preaching that government always fails, then, when in office, proving it. Once accomplished, private entities, based on nothing but greed are there to replace government services and pick the meat off the bones of the people.

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    Re: The REAL reasons for mass shootings.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&...l_6m3ji1cuuk_b

    I would like to see this as general reading for all.

    In mental health we have recently come a long way. 20 years ago there was no decent treatment for many problems. Today we can fix lots of things without drugs, just a bit of counciling. Give it a try or a read.

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    Re: The REAL reasons for mass shootings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim the plumber View Post
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&...l_6m3ji1cuuk_b

    I would like to see this as general reading for all.

    In mental health we have recently come a long way. 20 years ago there was no decent treatment for many problems. Today we can fix lots of things without drugs, just a bit of counciling. Give it a try or a read.
    Thank you for trying to add to the discussion and talk about the solution and not sinking to the level of trying to get some petty partisan bickering going on. This is not a discussion about guns, it's a discussion of being there for our kids that obviously need us.
    True far right conservatism, is based in selfishness, fueled by fear, and practiced by preaching that government always fails, then, when in office, proving it. Once accomplished, private entities, based on nothing but greed are there to replace government services and pick the meat off the bones of the people.

  6. #6
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    Re: The REAL reasons for mass shootings.

    Quote Originally Posted by markjs View Post
    The guns aren't it, and neither is mental health. That said I wouldn't mind tighter background checks and more limits on semi autos, or not, I don't think that will change much either way. Nor do I think armed teachers is the answer; I'd bet a dollar to a hole in a doughnut it causes trouble before it saves anyone, we shall see.

    The thing that's causing this is the one thing NOBODY wants to look at, nobody want to take this blame because this blame can only be placed when looking in the mirror!

    Parents these days, its not lack of religion or faith, or any of that, though that stuff can be good or bad like anything, depending on it's apllication. I've seen agnostics and religious folks alike sucessfully raise great kids. The simple fact is though, most of us, well intentioned as we are, are either to caught up in making a living, the daily grind or whatever it is, and have too little idea of how even to relate to our kids much less parent. All too often parenting consists of paying not a ton of attention, till the kid gets in trouble, then getting emotionally bent, punishing too severely, maybe taking it bakc later, being inconsistent, maybe, whatever it is. Sometimes it's mild physical abuse (which does not work ultimately) maybe it's neglect.

    See they barely teach balancing a check account, interest rates, all the basic crap a kid needs to learn to adult much less prosper in this society anymore. Boys are shunned from home ec, if even it's offered anymore, and parenting classes? You gotta be kidding me, but even if it's a good kid, not having sex or making kids, how bad could a parenting course in health be for them?

    Then there's bullying, overworked, underpaid teachers not connecting. Don't get me wrong, I give this maybe 10% to teachers, 20% bullies and peers, but a good 70% of the blame is at home. Even the best intentioned parents stuggle, and kids come with no operators manual. It's time we get to acknowleging the real reason our kids get so isolated, frustrated, and feel so alone,. Most of these kids aren't sociopaths, or even necessarily bad seeds, but neglect these problems long enough and they fester, when just learning to involve ourselves, be aware what is going on with our kids, not over disciplining, and definitely not neglecting disciple (worse). No I do not suggest trying to be your kids best friend, but something between authority and friend seems about right. That extra effort to connect with opur kids, if anything can reduce these incidenst, that is the one thing that will work.
    Most mass killers are not kids.

  7. #7
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    Re: The REAL reasons for mass shootings.

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Most mass killers are not kids.
    Yet it's still where the problem starts in many cases.
    True far right conservatism, is based in selfishness, fueled by fear, and practiced by preaching that government always fails, then, when in office, proving it. Once accomplished, private entities, based on nothing but greed are there to replace government services and pick the meat off the bones of the people.

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    Re: The REAL reasons for mass shootings.

    Quote Originally Posted by markjs View Post
    Thank you for trying to add to the discussion and talk about the solution and not sinking to the level of trying to get some petty partisan bickering going on. This is not a discussion about guns, it's a discussion of being there for our kids that obviously need us.
    It's not much of a discussion at all. It is hand-wringing and the gnashing of teeth, and not much more.

    In too many cases "mass shootings" under close scrutiny turn out to be staged events.

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    Re: The REAL reasons for mass shootings.

    Quote Originally Posted by markjs View Post
    The guns aren't it, and neither is mental health. That said I wouldn't mind tighter background checks and more limits on semi autos, or not, I don't think that will change much either way. Nor do I think armed teachers is the answer; I'd bet a dollar to a hole in a doughnut it causes trouble before it saves anyone, we shall see.

    The thing that's causing this is the one thing NOBODY wants to look at, nobody want to take this blame because this blame can only be placed when looking in the mirror!

    Parents these days, its not lack of religion or faith, or any of that, though that stuff can be good or bad like anything, depending on it's apllication. I've seen agnostics and religious folks alike sucessfully raise great kids. The simple fact is though, most of us, well intentioned as we are, are either to caught up in making a living, the daily grind or whatever it is, and have too little idea of how even to relate to our kids much less parent. All too often parenting consists of paying not a ton of attention, till the kid gets in trouble, then getting emotionally bent, punishing too severely, maybe taking it bakc later, being inconsistent, maybe, whatever it is. Sometimes it's mild physical abuse (which does not work ultimately) maybe it's neglect.

    See they barely teach balancing a check account, interest rates, all the basic crap a kid needs to learn to adult much less prosper in this society anymore. Boys are shunned from home ec, if even it's offered anymore, and parenting classes? You gotta be kidding me, but even if it's a good kid, not having sex or making kids, how bad could a parenting course in health be for them?

    Then there's bullying, overworked, underpaid teachers not connecting. Don't get me wrong, I give this maybe 10% to teachers, 20% bullies and peers, but a good 70% of the blame is at home. Even the best intentioned parents stuggle, and kids come with no operators manual. It's time we get to acknowleging the real reason our kids get so isolated, frustrated, and feel so alone,. Most of these kids aren't sociopaths, or even necessarily bad seeds, but neglect these problems long enough and they fester, when just learning to involve ourselves, be aware what is going on with our kids, not over disciplining, and definitely not neglecting disciple (worse). No I do not suggest trying to be your kids best friend, but something between authority and friend seems about right. That extra effort to connect with opur kids, if anything can reduce these incidenst, that is the one thing that will work.
    I agree to an extent with what you pose. The notion that its the societal and family frameworks of today are causing this is not too wrong, nor is it completely right. The primary question one should ask is why are these mass shootings happening?? The answer to this is such a debatable topic and for anyone to have any claim to know the answer is wrong. In the short term, I believe, heavier legislation and even banning of firearms is needed. The legislation and processes involved in implemented such constructs can be implemented in the short term to achieve some sort of viable safety. The issues you pose are long term solutions to long term (or better still) somewhat insolvable problems. There is only so much education, legislation and information that can convincingly alter or change how individuals are brought up. However it starts with the basics of education, addressing mental health etc..

  10. #10
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    Re: The REAL reasons for mass shootings.

    Quote Originally Posted by markjs View Post
    Way to completely miss the point. This is proof you are not worth discussing anything with. I clearly said I'm fine with that or not, and that I don't think it's the issue and all you can do is look for a partisan fight to pick?
    you seem to think its not relevant-then why mention it
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Yeah; a shotgun IS a rifle; it uses a different load.
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    I'm smart on the gun issue and what we need to do about it.

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