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Thread: Where are you on the Death Penalty?

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    Re: Where are you on the Death Penalty?

    I oppose the death penalty in any circumstance. I deny my government the right of life or death over me, or any other citizen.
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    Re: Where are you on the Death Penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    I would think differently. However, he'd planned and premeditated the shooting, it was not a random act of violence, but a calculated act of cruelty, which is what makes it worthy of the death penalty.
    It does not prove the man did not have an extended psychotic episode. They can last for weeks with out meds.
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    Re: Where are you on the Death Penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Person View Post
    I would feel no remorse if they killed him, but I think this has to be looked at from a systemic perspective.


    The question should not be "how do I feel if this person is executed?" The question should be "looking at who we executed, at who has been proven innocent before and after conviction, and at all whom could not be proven innocent afterwards because of lesser technologies in earlier times, is this a system we can morally support?"

    I say no.

    (I also tend to think that life in prison may very well be worse, particularly in Supermax. BUT, I do not claim to know and do not assert this as a certainty).
    That's why my support for the death penalty hinges on no doubt of guilt. I would not support the death penalty for many of the cases for which it is applied because of that.


    I further think that it is worth listening to what a brilliant author who was saved from execution at more or less the last moment has to say.....
    Is death not an inevitability for everyone though? A person on life in prison has a far longer wait for the certainty of death. But if we're citing authors, I like Heinlein's take:

    Well, if there was no way to keep it from happening once, there was only one sure way to keep it from happening twice. Which we had used.
    If Dillinger had understood what he was doing (which seemed incredible) then he got what was coming to him... except that it seemed a shame that he hadn’t suffered as much as had little Barbara Anne — he practically hadn’t suffered at all.
    But suppose, as seemed more likely, that he was so crazy that he had never been aware that he was doing anything wrong? What then? Well, we shoot mad dogs, don’t we? Yes, but being crazy that way is a sickness — I couldn’t see but two possibilities. Either he couldn’t be made well — in which case he was better dead for his own sake and for the safety of others — or he could be treated and made sane. In which case (it seemed to me) if he ever became sane enough for civilized society... and thought over what he had done while he was "sick" — what could be left for him but suicide? How could he live with himself? And suppose he escaped before he was cured and did the same thing again? And maybe again? How do you explain that to bereaved parents? In view of his record? I couldn’t see but one answer.
    https://wrathoftheawakenedsaxon.file...t_heinlein.pdf
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    Re: Where are you on the Death Penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by yankintx View Post
    It does not prove the man did not have an extended psychotic episode. They can last for weeks with out meds.
    How is he less culpable if his actions are the consequence of his choice to not take his meds?
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    Re: Where are you on the Death Penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    Is death not an inevitability for everyone though? A person on life in prison has a far longer wait for the certainty of death. But if we're citing authors, I like Heinlein's take:
    Death is an inevitability for everyone.

    Forced death at a specific date and time is Dostoyevsky's point. I haven't been there, but he really was. I tend to trust people who are both brilliant and have no motive to lie.



    But either way, the more emotional-aimed appeal of Dostoyevsky is not what I rely on for my opinion. I rely on the repeated systemic failures of the death penalty. I also rely on the fact that I personally - at least now, not facing a death sentence - think it would be worse to spend the rest of my life in a small concrete box, allowed out only one hour a day (supermax - which is where we send the worst, like the marathon bomber). There, I suspect, you slowly lose your mind. You lose your self. But not in an instant. Slowly. Eventually you die a mad animal.

    Anyway, my main objection is that far too many innocents have been executed and far too many more were likely innocent but simply didn't have access to the evidence to prove it given technological advancements that were very recent in human history.



    Like I said, I won't shed a tear if this scum dies tonight. BUT, I oppose having a death penalty. There simply is no good way to draw a red line between so-called obvious guilt and not-as-obvious guilt.

    You might think "what about a confession"? Well, there are many proven false confessions, even of people executed.

    You might think "what about video"? Ok, but what about the objectively guilty person who isn't executed vs. the objectively guilty person who is, just because of a difference between whether there was video?

    I think justice system should strive to do everything it can to ensure equal outcomes in equal cases, or at least get as close as possible. The trouble with the death penalty is that you can't remedy things if you screwed up and executed the person.

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    Re: Where are you on the Death Penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    <snip>
    I'm only replying again to flag that I massively edited my post since you give it a like (I think)

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    Re: Where are you on the Death Penalty?

    I’m against the death penalty. Does Cruz deserve to die? Sure. He deserves to be flayed alive and have fire ants eat him alive.

    But there are things I don’t want my government in the business of doing.
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    Re: Where are you on the Death Penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by TNHarley View Post
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/sc...tHi?li=BBnb7Kz
    FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. — Florida school shooting suspect Nikolas Cruz was formally charged Wednesday with 17 counts of first-degree murder, which could mean a death sentence if he is convicted.

    The indictment returned by a grand jury in Fort Lauderdale also charges the 19-year-old with 17 counts of attempted murder for the Valentine's Day massacre at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland in which 17 people died and more than a dozen others were wounded.

    Cruz's public defender has said he will plead guilty if prosecutors take the death penalty off the table, which would mean a life prison sentence. The Broward County state attorney has not announced a decision on the death penalty.
    Personally, i wish the cops that found him put a bullet in his head so we wouldnt have to worry about this crap.
    I am ok with the death penalty in some cases. This one being one of them.
    I am pro-death penalty in all cases where there is no reasonable doubt of guilt. And their certainly is no doubt in Nickolas Cruz's case. It would be stupid to offer him a deal.
    “Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.” ― Winston Churchill

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    Re: Where are you on the Death Penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    I am opposed to the death penalty in all circumstances and oppose the death penalty here too.
    I think in this case Cruz should face a firing squad with the shooters using AR 15s.
    “Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.” ― Winston Churchill

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    Re: Where are you on the Death Penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by yankintx View Post
    It does not prove the man did not have an extended psychotic episode. They can last for weeks with out meds.
    I don't care if he had a psychotic episode or not. Kill the bastard.
    “Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.” ― Winston Churchill

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