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if true tRump is tOast

GDViking said:
The accusation was not that trump received golden showers but had prostitutes pee on a be president and first lady Obama slept in.

To me that does sounds like something this narcissistic ass hat would enjoy to no end.
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The was also the bed he was going to be sleeping in that night.
 
vesper said:
yet Trump endorsed Romney in his run for Senate in Utah just 11 days ago.
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Utah Senate - Romney vs. Wilson UtahPolicy/Dan Jones* Romney 60, Wilson 14 Romney +46

Romney's a shoe in, Trump's not going to go against those odds. If Romney was in a close race Trump would not have endorsed him.
Trump was actually hoping Hatch would run again preventing a never Trumper like Romney from even running!
 
slick said:
Utah Senate - Romney vs. Wilson UtahPolicy/Dan Jones* Romney 60, Wilson 14 Romney +46

Romney's a shoe in, Trump's not going to go against those odds. If Romney was in a close race Trump would not have endorsed him.
Trump was actually hoping Hatch would run again preventing a never Trumper like Romney from even running!
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Maybe so slick, who knows. But I do recall Trump picked Romney's niece Ronna Romney McDaniel to head the RNC. And she has been a big supporter of Trump.
 
Jesse Booth said:
Some supposedly straight guys have turned out to be straight, but that doesn't mean all guys who react adversely to other men's penises are gay; it doesn't even mean most of them are gay. It's simply more believable to assume that the guy constantly freaking out about about blood and bodily functions just has a weird phobia than it is to take unproven raw data from a large infodump from Russian sources about that same guy being so enraged by another person's existence that he's willing to sleep in a piss-stained bed just to secretly slight the man.
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Im just saying that you have nothing that proves that Trump isnt into golden showers.

As far as if Russia has something to hold over Trump? Well Trumps behavior with dealing with Russia seems to indicate something is a miss.
 
AlbqOwl said:
Nice rant but all wrong according to the evidence starting with the inference that I said the DNC and Hillary campaign hired Steele directly. I've done no such thing. They DID hire FusionGPS through Clinton's law firm, Perkin Cole who was paid some $9 million during 2016 and both the DNC. It is unclear how much if any of that went to FusionGPS and/or Steele. The Clinton campaign did fund FusionGPS through October 2016 almost up to the election. When the FBI declared the Steele dossier 'salacious and unverified' and told Steele not to release it, Steele leaked it to various media sources.

I haven't been able to determine whether Steele paid any of his unverified sources, but I'm sure somebody is following the money there. And if it turns out that he paid Russian operatives for information, then that tracks right back to Hillary and the DNC.

Meanwhile, there is zero evidence that President Trump and/or his campaign team colluded with the Russians legally or illegally.

But my oh my, the haters suffering TDS sure want to believe there is.
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You haven't refuted two important points:

It doesn't matter who paid for the Dossier, it only matters that what it contains is accurate. They have confirmed parts of it. It was submitted as raw intelligence and Steel said expected 75% to 90% accuracy. So, if a few elements aren't accurate, it's within the expectation as told by Steel.

We won't know about the evidence on Trump, if he colluded with Russia or not, until Mueller is finished.

But, remember, Mueller's investigation is about illegal activity and obstruction of justice, and it's pretty clear he will find both. That may, or may not include Russia/collusion, so to say "there is no evidence" is really meaningless, given the larger context of Mueller investigation.
 
OscarLevant said:
You haven't refuted two important points:

It doesn't matter who paid for the Dossier, it only matters that what it contains is accurate. They have confirmed parts of it. It was submitted as raw intelligence and Steel said expected 75% to 90% accuracy. So, if a few elements aren't accurate, it's within the expectation as told by Steel.

We won't know about the evidence on Trump, if he colluded with Russia or not, until Mueller is finished.

But, remember, Mueller's investigation is about illegal activity and obstruction of justice, and it's pretty clear he will find both. That may, or may not include Russia/collusion, so to say "there is no evidence" is really meaningless, given the larger context of Mueller investigation.
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Those who have seen the dossier say it is pretty much all unverifiable and salacious. And that would include Director Comey with whom no love is lost when it comes to President Trump. I know that doesn't fit the narrative the TDS group so desperately want to be true, but given that the FBI and the investigation team leak like sieves and the media will print anything they get however implausible or speculative, its pretty safe to say that right now they have zilch on President Trump and his campaign.

On the other hand, there is sufficient evidence leaking out re the extreme bias and possible illegality on the part of the FBI that I won't be surprised to see a special counsel appointed to investigate the investigators. The Inspector General is already on it but he has no authority to indict and he has no subpoena powers to question anybody who has left the FBI and/or DOJ which would be many if not most of those who could be culpable.

It DOES matter who paid for the dossier if the intent was to create something to hurt President Trump and it makes it even more highly suspect as manufactured dirt.
 
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AlbqOwl said:
Those who have seen the dossier say it is pretty much all unverifiable and salacious. And that would include Director Comey with whom no love is lost when it comes to President Trump.
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Well, when you say "those who have seen the dossier" please be specific. Are you referring to Nunes and hios crew ( a group who have zero credibility ) and yes, Nunes said that about Comey, but did Comey actually say that? NO.

What Comey ACTUALLY said was that "portions of the dossier were salacious and unverifiable"

Nunes memo twists James Comey's words on Steele dossier | PolitiFact


I know that doesn't fit the narrative the TDS group so desperately want to be true, but given that the FBI and the investigation team leak like sieves and the media will print anything they get however implausible or speculative, its pretty safe to say that right now they have zilch on President Trump and his campaign.
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Most of the leaks have been corroborated by multiple witnesses, that is how Wapo and NYT operate, they don't report "fake" stories, that's an agenda driven by the President, who lies more than any president in history. .

Does that mean they get it right all the time? No. And let's acknowledge the fact that no president in history has declared on national TV or in a national forum that the press is the "enemy of the people", that Trump has done that, puts him in the nefarious company of dictators and demagogues -- that he's done that makes him the enemy of the people, in my opinion

Leaks are everywhere, leaks are bipartisan, so what else is new?

It's not safe to say that at all. There is plenty of evidence of dereliction of duty, obstruction of justice, violation of federal election laws, money laundering, corruption and incompetence. Mueller has quite a few documents sealed with the court, and the odds are they are indictments. Get your popcorn ready, it's going to be a real show.

On the other hand, there is sufficient evidence leaking out re the extreme bias and possible illegality on the part of the FBI that I won't be surprised to see a special counsel appointed to investigate the investigators.
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Be surprised, because that is not going to happen.

There are 37,000 agents. One agent was caught texting bias, and he was removed from the investigation, the system works.

There will be no "special counsel" to investigate Mueller, that is pure fantasy, because there needs to be strong evidence of crimes, and there is no evidence of that. If you have evidence, please provide it, and note, just because Breitbart and a few right wing sites say it, doesn't mean it's true.

There is a group of politicians ( headed by Nunes ) calling for it, but they are not going to get it because there is no evidence of crimes. Rosenstein, who is a republican appointed by Trump, called for special counsel to investigate the 2016 and any other crimes discovered in pursuit of that mandate because of the plethora of evidence of Russian meddling and voter machine tampering. Also, he knows that Trump has enormous international financial entanglements, including with Russia (by his family's own admission ), which needs to be investigated, because America needs to know whether or not our president has Russian "comprimat" and is not a crook in order to run America safely and effectively. What the politicians calling for an special counsel to investigate Muller, what their de facto intent is to undermine the investigation. When our nation is being attacked by a foreign enemy, what do these guys do? they want to attack those who are trying to defend our nation.

The Inspector General is already on it but he has no authority to indict and he has no subpoena powers to question anybody who has left the FBI and/or DOJ which would be many if not most of those who could be culpable.

It DOES matter who paid for the dossier if the intent was to create something to hurt President Trump and it makes it even more highly suspect as manufactured dirt.
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"create" is the wrong word, the correct word is "discover", the distinction is the difference between injustice and justice.

Yes, it's a fact that should be disclosed, but it's not of much significance if the dossier uncovers facts about the president which reveal crimes or lead to the discovery of evidence of them. The dossier was NEVER presented as evidence, it was only provide as leads.


IF oppo research uncovers facts about a candidate which reveal he is she is unfit for office, then that information needs to be revealed. The FBI took the dossier as a lead, nothing more, nothing less. They are obligated to investigate leads, it's what they do.
 
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OscarLevant said:
You haven't refuted two important points:

It doesn't matter who paid for the Dossier, it only matters that what it contains is accurate. They have confirmed parts of it.
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what parts have been confirmed exactly? because if you can't point them out specifically then it proves nothing. And do give me "it's classified" bull****. if they had corroborated the dossier it would have leaked by now. so tell me.

We won't know about the evidence on Trump, if he colluded with Russia or not, until Mueller is finished.

But, remember, Mueller's investigation is about illegal activity and obstruction of justice, and it's pretty clear he will find both. That may, or may not include Russia/collusion, so to say "there is no evidence" is really meaningless, given the larger context of Mueller investigation.
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No mr. goal post mover, it was about Russian collusion. period. and if they come back with something that has nothing to do with Trump colluding with the Russians then the President can rightly claim it was all a witch hunt. and none of your "but, but, but obstruction" bull**** will cost him a single vote next election.

nice try though.
 
JoeTrumps said:
what parts have been confirmed exactly? because if you can't point them out specifically then it proves nothing. And do give me "it's classified" bull****. if they had corroborated the dossier it would have leaked by now. so tell me.

No mr. goal post mover, it was about Russian collusion. period. and if they come back with something that has nothing to do with Trump colluding with the Russians then the President can rightly claim it was all a witch hunt. and none of your "but, but, but obstruction" bull**** will cost him a single vote next election.

nice try though.
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what causes you to believe that?

here, read the order issued to Mueller:
https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/967231/download
 
justabubba said:
what causes you to believe that?

here, read the order issued to Mueller:
https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/967231/download
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sorry. What I meant was every sane person who isn't a brain dead liberal thinks the investigation is about Russian collusion. I know the left has slowly realized that there will be no proof of collusion, so they have moved on to other areas to try and take the President down. But the general populous believes this is about finding Russian collusion, just like CNN told them every single day of 2017.

Pretend it's not true all you like. When Mueller comes back with zero evidence of collusion the left and their pals in the media will all be eating **** sandwiches. hope the dog and pony show was worth it. It pretty much guaranteed you 7 more years of Trump. Way to be.
 
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AlbqOwl said:
Nice rant but all wrong according to the evidence starting with the inference that I said the DNC and Hillary campaign hired Steele directly. I've done no such thing. They DID hire FusionGPS through Clinton's law firm, Perkin Cole who was paid some $9 million during 2016 and both the DNC. It is unclear how much if any of that went to FusionGPS and/or Steele. The Clinton campaign did fund FusionGPS through October 2016 almost up to the election. When the FBI declared the Steele dossier 'salacious and unverified' and told Steele not to release it, Steele leaked it to various media sources.
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Nope. I'm correct. Just the fact that it's not logical anyone pays anyone to make stuff up ought to tell you that the millions that were paid for their research, money which came from republicans and democrats, ought to have yielded some facts. Who would pay for incompetent research? If Fusion GPS provided incompetent research, they would be out of business in no time, so all of these characterizations designed to impugn Fusion GPS and Steel are agenda driven nonsense whose intent in fact to undermine the Mueller investigation . Again, the FBI is investigating crimes, they are investigating not only "conspiracy" but money laundering, financial crimes, obstruction of justice, violation of federal election laws, etc.
to say "there is no evidence" is premature. We must wait until Mueller is finished. Watergate took a couple of years, so these things take time because the task is formidable.


I haven't been able to determine whether Steele paid any of his unverified sources, but I'm sure somebody is following the money there. And if it turns out that he paid Russian operatives for information, then that tracks right back to Hillary and the DNC.

Meanwhile, there is zero evidence that President Trump and/or his campaign team colluded with the Russians legally or illegally.

But my oh my, the haters suffering TDS sure want to believe there is.
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A common tactic of republicans is to characterize Dems as "haters". I see this a lot, and more.

To a number of republicans (and libertarians and right leaning independents), those who disagree with them are "haters". For example, if you disagree with some republicans, you are often called anti-American, your patriotism is challenged, and you are called a "hater". "Democrats hate freedom" is a cry I often hear from some republicans. Apparently, they have great difficulty with their logic and facts, so they resort to this very weak debate tactic. But that's the thing: it's weak, it does not actually support one's argument to engage in such methods.

These are egregious debate methods which I categorize falling under the umbrella of posturing. The proper way to debate is to stay on point, use sound logic and facts and data so support one's argument, and avoid using patronizing tones, ad hominems, weasel words ("Shillary" for example ), and loaded terms ( "hater" for example ).

See the Carl Sagan Baloney Detection kit.

And yes, I, as have most of us, have been guilty of such weak debate tactics to varying degrees, but I strive not to, and you should, too.
 
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JoeTrumps said:
sorry. What I meant was every sane person who isn't a brain dead liberal thinks the investigation is about Russian collusion. I know the left has slowly realized that there will be no proof of collusion, so they have moved on to other areas to try and take the President down. But the general populous believes this is about finding Russian collusion, just like CNN told them every single day of 2017.

Pretend it's not true all you like. When Mueller comes back with zero evidence of collusion the left and their pals in the media will all be eating **** sandwiches. hope the dog and pony show was worth it. It pretty much guaranteed you 7 more years of Trump. Way to be.
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probably need to tie your shoes before running that victory lap
let's suspend this conversation between the two of us until mid november
 
justabubba said:
Christopher Steele claims Kremlin told Trump not to nominate Romney secretary of state - Business Insider




somehow, i believe the American public would become outraged - even many of the tRump loyalists - to learn that tRump had given putin veto power over his cabinet selection
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Well this is predictable. As FISA-gate heats up the Democrats strategy is to rehabilitate Chrtistopher Steele's credibility. Good luck with that, he's currently being sued for Libel in the UK, and Fusion GPS is being sued for libel and slander here in the US

As a strategy it doesn't make any sense. The FBI still misled the FISA court, ( more than once ). So far the deputy director of the FBI has been fired over this growing scandal, so has James Baker, the FBI's council. Bruce Ohr was 4rth in line to the AG, and was removed from both of his senior positions at the DOJ. Peter Sztrok was demoted, the list of people that were involved in this scandal and who have been removed because if it is growing, so what good does it do to defend Steele ?

The damage has been done and according to Jeff Sessions, he's already appointed a outside of Washington investigator with 30 years of DOJ service to investigate this, and the IG is investigating too
 
justabubba said:
Christopher Steele claims Kremlin told Trump not to nominate Romney secretary of state - Business Insider




somehow, i believe the American public would become outraged - even many of the tRump loyalists - to learn that tRump had given putin veto power over his cabinet selection
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You don't understand Trump loyalists if you believe something like that would undermine their support of Trump.

The Russians are trusted more by Trump supporters than they trust left wing Americans. Trump support actually has very little to do with Donald Trump. His support is based on a new kind of partisanship that represents a cultural divide unlike anything we have seen in this country before. The left and right in America are now virtual foriegn entities to one another and they have an open animosity and distrust that is downright tribal in nature.
 
AlbqOwl said:
I'm pretty sure anything Christopher Steele has to say about whatever Putin says has about as much credibility as Steele's disgraced and disgraceful dossier bought and paid for by the DNC and the Hillary campaign. Now you might want to check out whatever Putin told THEM. . . . .?
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But but but but obama and hillary did it! Too late cats outta the bag. GO MUELLER!! TIC TOC. Thank you Chris Steele. The American people THANK YOU!!!
 
OscarLevant said:
You haven't refuted two important points:

It doesn't matter who paid for the Dossier, it only matters that what it contains is accurate. They have confirmed parts of it. It was submitted as raw intelligence and Steel said expected 75% to 90% accuracy. So, if a few elements aren't accurate, it's within the expectation as told by Steel..
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:roll: If it didn't matter who paid for the dossier why did it take a Congressional subpoena and a Court ruling against Fusion GPS to force Marc Elias from Perkins Coi to finally fess up ?? And just the FBI submitted it to FISA under false pretenses doesn't make it legitimate intelligence. Thats up to the FBI investigators to decide BEFORE they submit it to FISA. In this case they submitted it under false pretenses and lied about Steele being the source of the Yahoo article they used to corroborate the dossier
 
ruskietards said:
But but but but obama and hillary did it! Too late cats outta the bag. GO MUELLER!! TIC TOC. Thank you Chris Steele. The American people THANK YOU!!!
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Lol !! Andrew McCabe thanks you ! Bruce Ohr thanks you ! Peter Sztrok thanks you ! James Baker thanks you !

Christopher Steele is currently being sued for defamation and Libel in the UK, Im sure he needs your money, your " thanks " is worthless

Christopher Steele is no-show in London court in civil case over dossier

Christopher Steele is no-show in London court in civil case over dossier | Fox News
 
Slingshot Bob said:
The media has been caught doing a lot of that lately. As to the bias, that is the reason for the big grain of salt.

Somewhere, there is a balance between confirmation bias and out and outright discounting anything reported. It is up to us, as the consumer of news, to find that balance. Sorting the chaff from the wheat is not always easy.
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Republicans dug the initial gold mine and the Clinton campaign took over and actually struck the gold that will likely bring down the tRump regime in the not too distant future.
 
Fenton said:
:roll: If it didn't matter who paid for the dossier why did it take a Congressional subpoena and a Court ruling against Fusion GPS to force Marc Elias from Perkins Coi to finally fess up ?? And just the FBI submitted it to FISA under false pretenses doesn't make it legitimate intelligence. Thats up to the FBI investigators to decide BEFORE they submit it to FISA. In this case they submitted it under false pretenses and lied about Steele being the source of the Yahoo article they used to corroborate the dossier
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somebody want to explain to him (again) why his statements are all wrong
 
FreedomFromAll said:
Im just saying that you have nothing that proves that Trump isnt into golden showers.

As far as if Russia has something to hold over Trump? Well Trumps behavior with dealing with Russia seems to indicate something is a miss.
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And the numerous financial ties he appears to have with them fits that bill better than a supposed pissing tape fits Trump's overall behavior.
 
vesper said:
Well well fresh off the presses, a letter sent to Sessions and Rosenstein demanding a special counsel be appointed to investigate the actions of the agencies in regard to everything Russia during the Obama administration. From FISC to the Trump Dossier(s) by Steele

Dear Attorney General Sessions and Deputy Attorney General Rosenstein:
Matters have arisen – both recently and otherwise – which necessitate the appointment of a Special Counsel. We do not make this observation and attendant request lightly. We have tremendous respect for the women and men of federal law enforcement and federal prosecution. In the vast majority of fact patterns, the Department of Justice, the career prosecutors and law enforcement professionals who serve there, and the U.S. Attorneys’ Offices throughout the country are fully capable of investigating, evaluating, charging where appropriate, and prosecuting matters for which there is federal jurisdiction.
Nevertheless, there are instances in which an actual or potential conflict of interest exists or appears to exist, or there are matters in which the public good would be furthered, and an independent Special Counsel is warranted as the relevant Federal regulations provide.
We believe that, in the case of certain decisions made and not made by the Department of Justice and FBI in 2016 and 2017, both an actual conflict of interest exists and separately, but equally significantly, the public interest requires the appointment of a Special Counsel.
With respect to potential and actual conflicts of interest, decisions made and not made by both former and current Department of Justice and FBI officials have led to legitimate questions and concerns from the people whom we all serve. There is evidence of bias, trending toward animus, among those charged with investigating serious cases. There is evidence political opposition research was used in court filings. There is evidence this political opposition research was neither vetted before it was used nor fully revealed to the relevant tribunal. Questions have arisen with the FISA process and these questions and concerns threaten to impugn both public and congressional confidence in significant counterintelligence program processes and those charged with overseeing and implementing these counterintelligence processes.
Because the decisions of both former and current Department of Justice and FBI officials are at issue, we do not believe the Department of Justice is capable of investigating and evaluating these fact patterns in a fashion likely to garner public confidence. In addition, while we have confidence in the Inspector General for the Department of Justice, the DOJ IG does not have the authority to investigate other governmental entities or former employees of the Department, the Bureau, or other agencies.
Some have been reluctant to call for the appointment of a Special Counsel because such an appointment should be reserved for those unusual cases where existing investigative and prosecutorial entities cannot adequately discharge those duties. We believe this is just such a case.
Accordingly, we request that you appoint a Special Counsel to review decisions made and not made by the Department of Justice and the FBI in 2016 and 2017, including but not limited to evidence of bias by any employee or agent of the DOJ, FBI, or other agencies involved in the investigation; the decisions to charge or not charge and whether those decisions were made consistent with the applicable facts, the applicable law, and traditional investigative and prosecutorial policies and procedures; and whether the FISA process employed in the fall of 2016 was appropriate and devoid of extraneous influence.
Thank you for your prompt attention to this important request.
Sincerely,
Bob Goodlatte
Chairman
House Judiciary Committee
Trey Gowdy
Chairman
House Oversight and Government Reform Committee
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Sounds like an official case of the but buts. Saw Trey Gowdy on Forensic Files the other night. I guess at one point he was an honest prosecutor.
 
OscarLevant said:
DNC didn't hire Steel, Fusion GPS did. NO way would they pay a lot of money for bogus information, their staff could do that for free.

It's all about Oppo research, and it has no value if it's not true. Fusion GPS was grilled for 10 hours, and again by both committees, and they provided to the FBI some 40,000 documents backing up their research. Moreover, more and more of the dossier is turning out accurate.

Moreover, Steel had nothing to gain financially by taking it to the FBI. Fusion didn't hire Steel to do that, it wasn't part of the deal. He did it beause he was concerned about Trump being a criminal, and if he is, it's not good for the US, Brit's ally, and not good for the world, if he poses a threat to our national security and the security of the world if Russia has something over him, and it's a fair guess that they do.

It doesn't matter who paid for it, all that matters is if it is accurate. By his own account, it's raw intelligence, and, as such, he said it's probably 75% to 90% true.

There is nothing disgraceful about the dossier, that's merely fox news fans just declaring it as such. Declarations are not facts, they are opinions, and at best, wishful thinking.

Why is Trump going out of his way to denounce it? Why is Trump going out of his way to denounce the investigation, attempting to shame it every step of the way? Why does Trump, over and over and over and over again, insist "there is no collusion?". Why would Trump put a red line about his finances. You never hear Trump say 'there is no money laundering" you only hear him say "there is no collusion". Why is that? I mean, why doesn't he? He knows the investigation is just as much about his shady business practices as it is about collusion, probably a lot more so.

I'll tell you why.....

He's guilty of most of the things in it, that's why. It's the only thing that makes sense, given Trump's behavior towards the investigation and towards Russia.

There is no greater threat to Trump than Mueller, he is closing in, and Trump is feeling it, and he's sweating bullets, he knows Mueller has the goods on him, the noose around Trump's neck is growing tighter. If Buzzfeed found all that incriminating stuff on him via his shady biz deals, so many going back to the 80s, selling condos for big cash to shell companies buried within shell companies, most of which trace back to Russian oligarchs, quick flips, most of them, many losoing money for the flipper, but the oligarch just writes the loss off as a payment to Trump for looking the other way in the money laundering scheme, and he's been doing this to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars going back to the 80s, from his holdings in Panama to UAE, just imagine what Mueller is going to find ! he's in deep, and he's going down.

It won't be impeachment, it will be an indictment, his whole family are in on it --- the indictment will be executed via NY AG Eric Schneiderman at the state level, no pardons available there, sorry Trump. And to put the icing on the cake, how about all this finally gets repubs a spine? How about obstruction of justice, dereliction of duty failure to uphold the constitution and conduct unbecoming ---impeachment on top of all this and who knows what else? It's looks like it's Mueller Time.
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That looks interesting, but can you back them up with sources?
 
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