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Would Gun Control/Gun Ban Help Lower The Murder Rate In This Country?

There are perhaps some laws that could be modified / created however most laws;

1. Create new criminals that wouldnt otherwise be criminals.
2. Place more restrictions on law abiding citizens to exercise their rights
3. Makes it more difficult for people to defend themselves against dangerous crimimals.

For this problem to be solved,
1. Schools need to become harder target somehow
2. Current laws and regulations need to be enforced with mandtory sentencing (plea bargains and parole harm the efectiveness pf using laws as a deterret)
3. Several societal changes are needed, our addiction to violence, lack to desire to learn true, glorifying people that kill innocent people, lack of personal accountability, ability to sue at will with no consequence, multiple ways for politicials to divide citizens, and the way we communicate mainly to disagree without absolute hatred and labeling.

Sadly, the last will likely only get worse.
 
bluesmoke said:
What do you mean “sheltering kids”? What does that look like? When you say “Teaching a kid respect” do you mean teaching the “sheltered kid”, the bully, or both? They can both be steadily taught respect and still end up as is. The either/or of only two choices you give, as if there were no other, is a false dilemma. That “the other teaches that it's always someone else.” is just as much a falsehood as your nonsense claim "I'm willing to bet over time...most that were bullied are somewhat better off for it.", for which anecdotal evidence is insufficient support. The fact is, society more often makes the victim the “someone else” rather than the offending bully. The victim has to bear the burden and sort it out alone. That’s the way it’s been throughout history.

That you say “I'm not for bullying” doesn’t change the fact of your being an apologist for the outcomes of bullying.
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You missed the point that bullying is going to happen regardless. You're never going to stop it.
When (and if) you have kids you may understand what it's like to be intrusive on someone's life your responsible for.

You have to teach them to not be a bully and how to handle being bullied.

Sheltering kids is blaming the schools for bullies and acting as if your child does nothing wrong, it's always someone else. Maybe you can remember back in the days when parents automatically took the side of teachers pretty much regardless of circumstances because a) teachers dont have a reason to single out a kid and b) kids f-ing lie. your kid, my kid, everyone's kid.
Today, too often, parents will take their child's side in everything, even against other kids. That is sheltering. That teaches their child they can do no wrong, which can create bullies and the softies that cannot take being bullied to the point they need to bring in guns.

So to the other point about being an apologist for bullying, yea kind of, because I'm not going to be able to stop it and neither are you or anyone else. Tech your kid how to react and use it positively. And if you can't because it goes to far, that's when other measures need taken, I suggested karate as a great example. Their bully may have to be stopped on your kids own because you're not going to be able to hover around and fix everything for them.
 
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jdog said:
I think while we are at it, we need to identify which model of car is involved in the most DUI deaths and ban that model of car......

It makes every bit as much sense as blaming murders on guns.
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There is a huge difference between guns and cars, so this is not a good example. Cars are made for transportation and in modern life many can not do without them. Guns have only one purpose, that is to kill and as we see in other countries we could do without or at least fewer of them and it would save lives. The problem in this country is that we are fifty or a hundred years past where gun control would do any good. We have somewhere between 270 million and 310 million and guns in the country. That makes it far too late for any gun control to stop those who wish to use those guns for evil purposes. Forget the car example as it is about as poor a one as you could bring up. Stick to the fact it is far too late for gun control and you will have a good argument.
 
AustralianuS said:
I think a good place to start would be to investigate where illegal handguns are coming from. Personally, I don't think the govt cares that there is a black market for guns or that so many people are killed by them. It almost never makes national news when 1-2 people are killed during a robbery, so it must not be a national problem. Although I'm willing to bet, the biggest piece of the pie of that 73% or murders is done in that or similar fashion.


The lunatic shooting up schools is so limited in numbers, people are asking for the impossible to stop this. I said in another thread a made up % of how many people "we" are actually looking for, and in some of those already rare cases, if the nutso doesn't have previous experience breaking the law, not even a Psych is going to know what they are capable of.
MSM needs to ensure these people are NOT famous. Don't show the face, don't share the name. Increase security and/or limit entry points to schools.

And see something, say something. And parent your kid. Bullying sucks, it's not fun, but it's not so bad that schools need shot up. I'm willing to bet over time, most bullies regret their actions and most that were bullied are somewhat better off for it.
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Easy answer.....

For every country that on a national level reduced and regulated guns. The gun violance was reduced substantially. Canada has more guns per capita than US but they are regulated. Same with Italy, Ireland, Portugal and France and of course australia, guns are not illegal but are regulated. Australia is a great example....When they started to regulated Guns the gun violance dropped 3X.

IF We in US are serious about gun safety and want reduce gun murders it has to be on a Federal Level...because if one state or city tries to regulate the guns and neighboring cities or states don't then it won't solve anything.

At the same time in US states

On the other hand ....if you don't mind children getting mowed down and school shooting after school shootings helps you getting a hardon and your answer is a generic answer thoughts and prayers ...Then leave things as is.

Diving Mullah
 
AustralianuS said:
You missed the point that bullying is going to happen regardless. You're never going to stop it.
When (and if) you have kids you may understand what it's like to be intrusive on someone's life your responsible for.

You have to teach them to not be a bully and how to handle being bullied.

Sheltering kids is blaming the schools for bullies and acting as if your child does nothing wrong, it's always someone else. Maybe you can remember back in the days when parents automatically took the side of teachers pretty much regardless of circumstances because a) teachers dont have a reason to single out a kid and b) kids f-ing lie. your kid, my kid, everyone's kid.
Today, too often, parents will take their child's side in everything, even against other kids. That is sheltering. That teaches their child they can do no wrong, which can create bullies and the softies that cannot take being bullied to the point they need to bring in guns.

So to the other point about being an apologist for bullying, yea kind of, because I'm not going to be able to stop it and neither are you or anyone else. Tech your kid how to react and use it positively. And if you can't because it goes to far, that's when other measures need taken, I suggested karate as a great example. Their bully may have to be stopped on your kids own because you're not going to be able to hover around and fix everything for them.
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Your saying I missed the point that bullying will always be with us is a falsehood. Just because I didn’t make a declaratory statement saying so is meaningless. When I discuss the subject of murder, I may not say that “murder will always be with us”, but that doesn’t mean I don’t recognize the truth that murder, like bullying, will always be with us. Just because you tell someone that bullying will always be with us doesn’t mean that person didn’t know that before.

Everything you’ve said about what children should be taught is elementary and redundant, though I most certainly agree but for your insistence on framing that is and should be done as false dilemma. However, just to edify, it is not so much the physical aspect of martial arts to defend oneself against bullying, but the self-confidence gained in the discipline of martial arts. By far, most bullying is mental/emotional. Bullies look for those who appear weak is where the self-confidence comes in. And, using “emotional judo” will help deflect the language of bullying, which is abusive, without resorting to violence.
 
bluesmoke said:
Your saying I missed the point that bullying will always be with us is a falsehood. Just because I didn’t make a declaratory statement saying so is meaningless. When I discuss the subject of murder, I may not say that “murder will always be with us”, but that doesn’t mean I don’t recognize the truth that murder, like bullying, will always be with us. Just because you tell someone that bullying will always be with us doesn’t mean that person didn’t know that before.

Everything you’ve said about what children should be taught is elementary and redundant, though I most certainly agree but for your insistence on framing that is and should be done as false dilemma. However, just to edify, it is not so much the physical aspect of martial arts to defend oneself against bullying, but the self-confidence gained in the discipline of martial arts. By far, most bullying is mental/emotional. Bullies look for those who appear weak is where the self-confidence comes in. And, using “emotional judo” will help deflect the language of bullying, which is abusive, without resorting to violence.
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Except it's not elementary and redundant which is a large part of the problem.
I said the same about karate/martial arts, we agree there.

As far as bullies looking for weak targets, that's not always the case. Some just bully whoever is around, but I tend to agree, pending the initial response, most will return to weak targets.

After typing that previous response I also came to realize how difficult it is to try having a conversation about parenting and the complexities of bullying and the results of it via a chat room. I don't feel like doing any more paragraphs and paragraphs breaking down each aspect so, I'm done.

Bullying sucks, it results in bad stuff but can also result in good stuff pending levels of bullying and parents, raise your kids.
 
AustralianuS said:
Except it's not elementary and redundant which is a large part of the problem.
I said the same about karate/martial arts, we agree there.

As far as bullies looking for weak targets, that's not always the case. Some just bully whoever is around, but I tend to agree, pending the initial response, most will return to weak targets.

After typing that previous response I also came to realize how difficult it is to try having a conversation about parenting and the complexities of bullying and the results of it via a chat room. I don't feel like doing any more paragraphs and paragraphs breaking down each aspect so, I'm done.

Bullying sucks, it results in bad stuff but can also result in good stuff pending levels of bullying and parents, raise your kids.
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“After typing that previous response I also came to realize how difficult it is to try having a conversation about parenting and the complexities of bullying and the results of it via a chat room. I don't feel like doing any more paragraphs and paragraphs breaking down each aspect so, I'm done.”

Having given very good and acceptable reasoning as to why, the above would have been quite sufficient for one to say they are “done.” and thus be the entire post. However, your post had more in it than to be from one who is honestly “done” by making statements that invite response, then rejects the notion of due reply.
 
bluesmoke said:
“After typing that previous response I also came to realize how difficult it is to try having a conversation about parenting and the complexities of bullying and the results of it via a chat room. I don't feel like doing any more paragraphs and paragraphs breaking down each aspect so, I'm done.”

Having given very good and acceptable reasoning as to why, the above would have been quite sufficient for one to say they are “done.” and thus be the entire post. However, your post had more in it than to be from one who is honestly “done” by making statements that invite response, then rejects the notion of due reply.
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Ok......
 
AustralianuS said:
I think a good place to start would be to investigate where illegal handguns are coming from. Personally, I don't think the govt cares that there is a black market for guns or that so many people are killed by them. It almost never makes national news when 1-2 people are killed during a robbery, so it must not be a national problem. Although I'm willing to bet, the biggest piece of the pie of that 73% or murders is done in that or similar fashion.
Click to expand...

If there were no guns, there would be no gun violence.

The reality however, beyond the fact that we have a Constitutional right to firearms, is that you cannot remove all the guns from America. Not anymore than you can remove all the booze or all the drugs.

And attempting to do so with those 2 created "more violent crime."

Attempting to do so would also leave all the guns in the hands of the criminals, putting the rest of us even more at risk.

So "banning guns" is not a worthwhile discussion...it's not possible.
 
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