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Attacking the NRA Is Really Attacking Everyday Americans

I am merely telling the truth.....you are lying to yourself. It is not just foreigners but also depending on reports between 40%-65% of your country as well.

So if you had to inform an individual who had no idea what a gun is, what a gun does and what its primary function is....what would you tell them???


depends which gun it is-you are dealing with someone who was a few targets out of being on one of our olympic teams and shot in two world championships. My Perazzi MT 6 and Mirage and my two Krieghoff K-80s were bought purely for ISU skeet and earned me two America Cups, and a bunch of other titles.

Then you have my Wilson Accu-comp 45, I made what is now the USPSA equivalent of GrandMaster with the 30 years ago. Then you have my CZ Custom Shop CTS which I bought to shoot steel with, and I do that rather well.

You see I have all sorts of guns and they serve all sorts of purposes.
 
There's nothing wrong with law abiding people owning assault weapons. That's why they call them law abiding people. Most mass shootings, including the Florida one, were conducted by people with long and obvious trails where they should have been locked up or confined beforehand. People aren't law abiding when they break laws, such as terroristic threatening. We've even had several recent arrests of people wanting to commit mass shootings in schools and these arrests happened BEFORE they committed the acts, which is what should have happened in Florida and most of the other mass shootings. We should leave law abiding gun owners alone and take dangerous people off the streets before they do something. It's absolutely nuts to let dangerous people run around loose and then try and keep guns out of their hands. That's bass ackwards.

To your first point. You are essentially stating that there was nothing wrong with Stephen Paddock, a legal gun owner, having over 24 guns at his disposal many which were assault weapons. Why do you make such a claim??? They are being abused, used to conduct mass murders does it not impact or make you question morality in any way.

So how do you propose to identify and inhibit the actions of these criminals....some states don't require a licence, background checks or any such limitations on the types of weapons. How police etc.. are going to suddenly be able to identify individuals who will sporadically commit mass murders is beyond me. You remove the means you remove the risk.

Whats ass backwards is allowing individuals to arm themselves and continue to carry around a weapon...a weapon that has been used to kill innocent children, teenagers and adults. Whenever guns are available individuals will continue to abuse them, you have to either heavily legislate or remove some of if not all weapons from the general public.

Does it not alarm you that the US has the highest number of guns in the world and just so happens to have one of the highest mass shootings rate in the world, one of the highest uses of firearms???
 
Incorrect....

Target shooting/Plinking

Security (I don't have to induce harm or kill to dissuade someone)

Collecting

Investment

You must look at the result not the means of getting to that result.

Target Shooting- It is inducing harm on something
Security- True. I agree with that however it still doesn't take away its functions.
Collecting- Doesn't take away its functions
Investment- Doesn't take away its functions.

Do you not agree that there is a firearm problem in the USA??
 
Does it not alarm you that the US has the highest number of guns in the world and just so happens to have one of the highest mass shootings rate in the world, one of the highest uses of firearms???

I think it's too bad that huge numbers of ghetto dwellers are shooting each other every night......tragic, really.

But there's nothing anybody can do about it and it does not alarm me in the least.

Don't try to use their savagery to take away my gun rights.

:peace
 
To your first point. You are essentially stating that there was nothing wrong with Stephen Paddock, a legal gun owner, having over 24 guns at his disposal many which were assault weapons. Why do you make such a claim??? They are being abused, used to conduct mass murders does it not impact or make you question morality in any way.

So how do you propose to identify and inhibit the actions of these criminals....some states don't require a licence, background checks or any such limitations on the types of weapons. How police etc.. are going to suddenly be able to identify individuals who will sporadically commit mass murders is beyond me. You remove the means you remove the risk.

Whats ass backwards is allowing individuals to arm themselves and continue to carry around a weapon...a weapon that has been used to kill innocent children, teenagers and adults. Whenever guns are available individuals will continue to abuse them, you have to either heavily legislate or remove some of if not all weapons from the general public.

Does it not alarm you that the US has the highest number of guns in the world and just so happens to have one of the highest mass shootings rate in the world, one of the highest uses of firearms???

tell me why I should give up my guns because someone else misuses them. Not going to happen, I guess the difference is-I don't believe in group guilt. You do. You want to punish millions of people in a country you don't even live in for some undisclosed reason. WE who own guns aren't going to buy into that crap.

we have criminal problem in the USA. 99% of lawful gun owners never harm anyone. and your warped nonsense that target shooting is harming something demonstrates to me your arguments are lacking in rational thought
 
What country are you from, Goldkam?

Why do you hate guns?

Why don't you mind your own country?
 
depends which gun it is-you are dealing with someone who was a few targets out of being on one of our olympic teams and shot in two world championships. My Perazzi MT 6 and Mirage and my two Krieghoff K-80s were bought purely for ISU skeet and earned me two America Cups, and a bunch of other titles.

Then you have my Wilson Accu-comp 45, I made what is now the USPSA equivalent of GrandMaster with the 30 years ago. Then you have my CZ Custom Shop CTS which I bought to shoot steel with, and I do that rather well.

You see I have all sorts of guns and they serve all sorts of purposes.

Firstly I have nothing wrong with guns for sporting events etc... however it needs be more heavily legislated. For instance Australia's example is quite simply what I agree with.
 
Firstly I have nothing wrong with guns for sporting events etc... however it needs be more heavily legislated. For instance Australia's example is quite simply what I agree with.

well we who live here disagree. and we wonder why you are obsessed over changing our laws in violation of our constitution. while we have more than a few bannerrhoid politicians who would love to try to impose Australian style gun laws here, I doubt they would remain in office if they tried it on a federal level here. and most police will not support confiscation of currently legally owned firearms
 
I think it's too bad that huge numbers of ghetto dwellers are shooting each other every night......tragic, really.

But there's nothing anybody can do about it and it does not alarm me in the least.

Don't try to use their savagery to take away my gun rights.

:peace

I will use whatever savagery I wish because innocent people are dying at the sacrifice of your gun rights. In your little bubble there may very well be these 'ghetto dwellers' but there also happens to be in the real world children and teenagers unable to receive an education without being threatened or even getting killed (2018 Florida Shooting) because of the right to own a gun and perceive them as a normality in everyday lives.

Don't turn the debate around and put it on me as challenging your gun rights, rights don't imply application.

Also to say there is 'nothing you can do' is false there is always hope, you quite clearly have lost hope. Instead of being a negative Nelly be positive about change, it is much healthier.
 
tell me why I should give up my guns because someone else misuses them. Not going to happen, I guess the difference is-I don't believe in group guilt. You do. You want to punish millions of people in a country you don't even live in for some undisclosed reason. WE who own guns aren't going to buy into that crap.

we have criminal problem in the USA. 99% of lawful gun owners never harm anyone. and your warped nonsense that target shooting is harming something demonstrates to me your arguments are lacking in rational thought

Because I and many others perceive them as a threat to society and innocent lives. At what point they have become a normality I am unsure, but they shouldn't. Guns will only lead to the inducement violence at some point. They are not the answer.

You don't have to buy into it, merely you have to accept where we are coming from. I accept where you are coming from but don't agree. You favour firearms because you want to protect yourself, believe in the 2nd Amendment.....I don't agree with these notions however.

There is still that 1% and please remember you are carrying a weapon which has and can be used for evil.
 
well we who live here disagree. and we wonder why you are obsessed over changing our laws in violation of our constitution. while we have more than a few bannerrhoid politicians who would love to try to impose Australian style gun laws here, I doubt they would remain in office if they tried it on a federal level here. and most police will not support confiscation of currently legally owned firearms

The CONSTITUTION IS 225 YEARS OLD, you pillock. Open your eyes, what laws are in place currently that are 225 years old??

Your Constitution is violating itself... the 14th Amendment. It states "No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws" The laws pertaining to firearms and the use of firearms are depriving individuals of their right to life. The final line terming "equal protection", appears to be failing. How a gunman who is awaiting trial and innocent teenagers and kids who have passed (along with their families) are receiving equal protection is beyond my intelligence.

And I congratulate them for seeing through the smoke screen of ignorance and privilege. Okay lets assume all of these notions, with no data or information to back up your points again.
 
Because I and many others perceive them as a threat to society and innocent lives. At what point they have become a normality I am unsure, but they shouldn't. Guns will only lead to the inducement violence at some point. They are not the answer.

You don't have to buy into it, merely you have to accept where we are coming from. I accept where you are coming from but don't agree. You favour firearms because you want to protect yourself, believe in the 2nd Amendment.....I don't agree with these notions however.

There is still that 1% and please remember you are carrying a weapon which has and can be used for evil.

how are American firearms legally owned here a threat to you unless you come to the USA and engage in behavior that would cause an honest American to shoot you?
 
The CONSTITUTION IS 225 YEARS OLD, you pillock. Open your eyes, what laws are in place currently that are 225 years old??

Your Constitution is violating itself... the 14th Amendment. It states "No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws" The laws pertaining to firearms and the use of firearms are depriving individuals of their right to life. The final line terming "equal protection", appears to be failing. How a gunman who is awaiting trial and innocent teenagers and kids who have passed (along with their families) are receiving equal protection is beyond my intelligence.

And I congratulate them for seeing through the smoke screen of ignorance and privilege. Okay lets assume all of these notions, with no data or information to back up your points again.

that's so stupid and clueless I am merely going to laugh at how little you understand the 14th amendment. you clearly have no idea how rights are protected.

BTW speaking of 225 years old-how long has your monarchy been in place?
 
how are American firearms legally owned here a threat to you unless you come to the USA and engage in behavior that would cause an honest American to shoot you?

Because the fact is the problem is not just honest Americans shooting, it is people like Stephen Paddock shooting on the Las Vegas Strip which could have very well been me or my family or my friends and their family.

Still doesn't take away that the US has a firearm problem, as much as you divert it away from that
 
that's so stupid and clueless I am merely going to laugh at how little you understand the 14th amendment. you clearly have no idea how rights are protected.

BTW speaking of 225 years old-how long has your monarchy been in place?

Firstly is the constitution 225 years old???

Was my quoting of the 14th Amendment correct??

How a gunman who is awaiting trial and innocent teenagers and kids who have passed (along with their families) are receiving equal protection?

Answer the questions instead of stating I am stupid and clueless.....you don't have to be a rocket scientist to understand the problems.
 
Because the fact is the problem is not just honest Americans shooting, it is people like Stephen Paddock shooting on the Las Vegas Strip which could have very well been me or my family or my friends and their family.

Still doesn't take away that the US has a firearm problem, as much as you divert it away from that

I have some news for you-and this comes from a guy who spent 30 years as a government prosecutor-24 of which were with the USDOJ. no law is going to stop a multimillionaire with a pilot's license, personally owned airplanes and a clean record from obtaining firearms and then staging the sort of incredibly detailed and premeditated mass murder that included him renting rooms at different sites, and setting up electronic surveillance outside his room
 
Firstly is the constitution 225 years old???

Was my quoting of the 14th Amendment correct??

How a gunman who is awaiting trial and innocent teenagers and kids who have passed (along with their families) are receiving equal protection?

Answer the questions instead of stating I am stupid and clueless.....you don't have to be a rocket scientist to understand the problems.

dead people are past being given equal protection. They were given it to the extent any government can, before the person acted. We don't have the ability to read minds and stop crimes before they happen in many cases. I didn't call you stupid or clueless, I claimed your comments were. You might be incredibly well educated on say nuclear energy or platypus husbandry. When it comes to our laws, though, your posts don't demonstrate much understanding
 
furthermore our laws that allow honest people without records to legally own firearms in NO WAY interfere with the due process or equal protection rights of other people.
 
there also happens to be in the real world children and teenagers unable to receive an education without being threatened or even getting killed (2018 Florida Shooting) because of the right to own a gun and perceive them as a normality in everyday lives.

No.......these children are in jeopardy because our government fails to provide adequate security for the schools.

You simply have not identified the problem because you hate guns. You'd rather blame ME just because I'm a gun owner.

I have never hurt myself or anyone else with a gun and I resent your idiotic attacks and accusations and your attempts to take away my rights.

Try to do better and get this right.
 
Also to say there is 'nothing you can do' is false there is always hope, you quite clearly have lost hope. Instead of being a negative Nelly be positive about change, it is much healthier.

Oh, do tell.........what can I do to change the savagery of the ghetto dwellers who kill each other in such incredible numbers that they make America the most violent nation in the civilized world?

We've been trying to civilize them for over 100 years and they're still the same.
 
Such as?? If you are stating more guns per capita than the US, there isn't such a country. ?

Exactly.. and yet there are many countries that have much more violence than the US,. And if you look at other countries.. like Canada, like New Zealand, Like Australia.. that have much higher gun ownership rates.. they have LOWER murder rates, lower violent crime rates than other countries like the UK that have LOWER gun ownership.

The upshot is.. the facts show that more guns does not equal more crime.

Additionally the problem is guns and thus guns should be more so correlated with gun crime not necessarily overall crime

And As I already pointed out.. doing such lead to invalid conclusion.

Again.. if you studied bicycle use and its effect on a community.. and you used "bike accidents" as your measured statistic. Guess what you would find? Duh.. communities that used bicycles.. have a higher "bike accidents" .. than communities that don't use bicycles.

And thus you would conclude that bike use is a detriment to society and they should be banned.

However, if you used a valid statistic.. like overall accident rate, etc.. you would likely find out that bicycles are a positive for a community.

See.. that's the difference between being biased.. which is what using "gun violence" is..

And using logic and science to study something.

How have they been needlessly disarmed??? is it needless to disarm someone of something that is being used to kill??

Absolutely when disarming that person either one makes no difference in crime rates.. or disarming that person makes things even worse. Which is what studies show happens with most proposed gun controls.. I,e Assault weapons bans, registration etc.

This is not a strategic or tactical game, where criminals have any advantage rather they are actually primarily disadvantaged in a number of ways pertaining to health, education etc.

Which is in some part because we spend time, effort and money on such things as millions of dollars for gun stamping.. that was never used to even solve one crime.

Or forcing counties to spend money registering firearms, etc.. when that money COULD be going toward mental health. Perhaps the state could be providing mental health to some young student.. and having him stay in school rather than be kicked out for behavioral problem, and helping before he becomes a threat.

But of course no.. as you say.. your view is narrow minded and focused on a "gun problem" that does not exist.

However what about this notion of for every gun used in self-defense, six more are used to commit a crime

Sure.. so?

Whats your point? you want to take away my self defense, and my father.. a retired school teacher.. his ability to defend himself effectively with a firearm... and then leave the criminals that have the firearms.. or a baseball bat.. or a knife.. etc.. in a better position to harm us?

Do you not agree that there is a firearm problem in the USA presently?

its not a belief... I don't have a "belief".. As a scientist and a medical provider, I base my decisions on the best available evidence. And the best available evidence is that we DO NOT.. have a "firearm problem" in the US.
 
that's so stupid and clueless I am merely going to laugh at how little you understand the 14th amendment. you clearly have no idea how rights are protected.

BTW speaking of 225 years old-how long has your monarchy been in place?

In relation to the 14th Amendment...

I perceived the 14th Amendment to guarantee all Americans their constitutional rights and thus it denies states the right to limit those rights through legislation. So if the states are allowing firearms and the implementation of firearms, how is it ensuring a citizen's "life, liberty, or property"??

Am I misreading the interpretation???

The monarchy of Australia was actually only formed in 1901, prior to that Australia was separate colonies per-say. Thus this is only 117 years old. Despite this your point is comparing a structural system of government compared to actual legislation. A structural framework of government can be in place for years, however legislation can still be altered and reformed.
 
In relation to the 14th Amendment...

I perceived the 14th Amendment to guarantee all Americans their constitutional rights and thus it denies states the right to limit those rights through legislation. So if the states are allowing firearms and the implementation of firearms, how is it ensuring a citizen's "life, liberty, or property"??

Am I misreading the interpretation???

The monarchy of Australia was actually only formed in 1901, prior to that Australia was separate colonies per-say. Thus this is only 117 years old. Despite this your point is comparing a structural system of government compared to actual legislation. A structural framework of government can be in place for years, however legislation can still be altered and reformed.

that's silly. owning arms in no way interferes with anyone's other rights

try again

BTW you don't have an American law school diploma or law license do you?
 
I have some news for you-and this comes from a guy who spent 30 years as a government prosecutor-24 of which were with the USDOJ. no law is going to stop a multimillionaire with a pilot's license, personally owned airplanes and a clean record from obtaining firearms and then staging the sort of incredibly detailed and premeditated mass murder that included him renting rooms at different sites, and setting up electronic surveillance outside his room

Personally I believe this is a bit of stretch, how can you determine the effectiveness of (or lack of) something when it hasn't even been implemented. The world nor anyone will ever know, in hindsight, what could have stopped Paddock. Rather its the reaction afterwards that will impact the future happenings....millions of dollars has been put into mental health programs etc..., millions has been put into education programs (maybe not enough) but it doesn't appear to be working. Thus change is needed?? At what point will individuals stop and change their mind...50 more deaths...20,000 more deaths.
 
Personally I believe this is a bit of stretch, how can you determine the effectiveness of (or lack of) something when it hasn't even been implemented. The world nor anyone will ever know, in hindsight, what could have stopped Paddock. Rather its the reaction afterwards that will impact the future happenings....millions of dollars has been put into mental health programs etc..., millions has been put into education programs (maybe not enough) but it doesn't appear to be working. Thus change is needed?? At what point will individuals stop and change their mind...50 more deaths...20,000 more deaths.


what would have stopped Paddock other than a good shot with a really good rifle in the right place at the right time?
 
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