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How do we break the victim mentality?

MovingPictures said:
I'm all for letting those that have had made mistakes enter society, and not being discriminated against, but **** those kids.

Threatening to shoot-up a school warrants serious punishment.
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The point is that all help and supervision ceases with that five year (or less) sentence. Parole (supervised) helps some but not enough in many cases.
 
Mason66 said:
It is the first step, however. We don't know what happened next.
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True, I was making an assumption like the FL mass shooter who was left to take GED classes.
 
Mason66 said:
I told my sons school I think it is wrong to let the kids call the teachers by their first names even if the title of teacher is in front of it.

The relationship between student and teacher should be more formal than between student peers.

They did not agree.
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Times change, I don't see at as a big deal or any disrespect at all.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Many of these kids (and I know a few) do not act up nearly as much when at home or among close friends. It is the school (institutional?) environment and/or groups of strangers that trigger them. Dad may not see anything that could be regarded as serious behavior problems in the (very limited?) time that he spends with his son. Part of the problem, IMHO, is that lack of time spent socializing with anyone - stuck with electronic gizmos, watching TV and playing mostly alone.
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Good points.

Back in the day, when everyone knew everyone in their neighborhood, kids couldn't get away with nonsense because Mrs. Jones would drop a dime on you and you would get as ass whooping when the old man got home from work. The old saying, "Wait 'till your dad gets home," was the most dreaded line I ever heard. lol
 
Mach said:
Step #1 Well, if he had no access to guns, his threat would be pointless, so no guns is the first obvious step since that holds the greatest danger to us and him.
Step #2 is to provide better education, which will cost some tax money, I suggest taking it from the top 0.5%, they have plenty and it will not impact their lives in any meaningful way.
Step #3 implement single player healthcare that includes a mental health provision. Take mental health out of the stigma/shadows it is today, and learn that our minds are complex and can function poorly, and with help they can improve.
Likely some more steps that can be included, help for single parents, free vocational training for dropouts that direct kids away from the devastating and costly prison system, etc.

Blaming "victim mentality" is a right wing meme, nothing more. It has no real meaning in the context of sociological research and reform, except as one of a great many negative ways of trying to deal with human mortality and their life as they know it.

It requires a party that wants to improve the world based on our ideals and goals, along with as much scientific backing as practical.
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This kid is bad so you want to steal money from people that earned it?

How do you figure education failed the kid here and not the parents?
 
MovingPictures said:
Times change, I don't see at as a big deal or any disrespect at all.
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I do. How can the teacher maintain order if they are on the same level as the kid?
 
Mason66 said:
This kid is bad so you want to steal money from people that earned it?
How do you figure education failed the kid here and not the parents?
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Every government in the world is based on taxation, but you're arguing it's against your worldview? It's so absurd what do you want me to say? There's no response that is nice.

As to whose failure it is, that's also absurd. If he kills kids, who failed? If he costs us hundreds of thousands in prison, who failed? If he is trained to be a criminal in jail, gets out kills more people, spends year on death row, costs us millions, WHO THE **** FAILED! You write as though you have no conception of how the world operates, which means...

You failed mason66, in your unwillingness to learn about reality, or to concede that people that study this might just know a tiny bit more.

Maybe we should also jail the father, get two in the prison system, that's bound to fix this! Got any buddies in local government that we could get with to start that private prison expansion?
 
DamnYankee said:
Good points.

Back in the day, when everyone knew everyone in their neighborhood, kids couldn't get away with nonsense because Mrs. Jones would drop a dime on you and you would get as ass whooping when the old man got home from work. The old saying, "Wait 'till your dad gets home," was the most dreaded line I ever heard. lol
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my dad was huge, and was afraid of hurting us because of it

my mother was the disciplinarian....5'2" of dynamite

it wasnt wait till your father gets home....it was go outside, and get me a switch, and it better not be too small

would have much rather my pop been the punisher....mom was a beast....but we all grew up

now i wonder if social services would be called....they shouldnt be....only thing ever really hurt was our pride

but we bellowed like it was....
 
Mach said:
Every government in the world is based on taxation, but you're arguing it's against your worldview? It's so absurd what do you want me to say? There's no response that is nice.

As to whose failure it is, that's also absurd. If he kills kids, who failed? If he costs us hundreds of thousands in prison, who failed? If he is trained to be a criminal in jail, gets out kills more people, spends year on death row, costs us millions, WHO THE **** FAILED! You write as though you have no conception of how the world operates, which means...

You failed mason66, in your unwillingness to learn about reality, or to concede that people that study this might just know a tiny bit more.

Maybe we should also jail the father, get two in the prison system, that's bound to fix this! Got any buddies in local government that we could get with to start that private prison expansion?
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Yes I failed.

Your idea of taking more and more wealth from people that earned it, is a great idea.

Go for it.
 
Mason66 said:
I do. How can the teacher maintain order if they are on the same level as the kid?
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Oh, ****.

It's a school, not a military training academy.
 
MovingPictures said:
Oh, ****.

It's a school, not a military training academy.
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What the kid learns at school they bring home.

You can't say kids are better off today than they were before.
 
Mason66 said:
Your idea of taking more and more wealth from people that earned it, is a great idea.
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Every system of government around the world involves taxes, you are still being absurd. Why are you doing that?
Are you saying you are not aware of that? Or that you are struggling to understand how opining for something that doesn't exist in any form in any nation, is somehow constructive to the nation you live in today?

You say you have a problem.

Identify the problem.
Identify solutions.
Spend the necessary time and energy to correct and maintain it.
Evaluate how well it's working, repeat process periodically.

In every case it will cost money, and that money will be spent on addressing the problem. The money government collects via taxes, it spends back on the nation. Do you know what I do with all the money you naively let me keep at a high tax bracket? I stuff in in the equivalent of a digital mattress. It's invested, wow. Huge boon to the economy!! it's one of the least productive ways to put that money to use.

Also, blaming people is irrelevant. Most in the thread are aghast at the father for blaming teh school. They in turn, blame him. It's feud mentality, it's absurd. The issue is not about pointing fingers, it's improving society/social outcomes.
 
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Mach said:
Every system of government around the world involves taxes, you are still being absurd. Why are you doing that?
Are you saying you are not aware of that? Or that you are struggling to understand how opining for something that doesn't exist in any form in any nation, is somehow constructive to the nation you live in today?

You say you have a problem.

Identify the problem.
Identify solutions.
Spend the necessary time and energy to correct and maintain it.
Evaluate how well it's working, repeat process periodically.

In every case it will cost money, and that money will be spent on addressing the problem. The money government collects via taxes, it spends back on the nation. Do you know what I do with all the money you naively let me keep at a high tax bracket? I stuff in in the equivalent of a digital mattress. It's invested, wow. Huge boon to the economy!! it's one of the least productive ways to put that money to use.

Also, blaming people is irrelevant. Most in the thread are aghast at the father for blaming teh school. They in turn, blame him. It's feud mentality, it's absurd. The issue is not about pointing fingers, it's improving society/social outcomes.
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Taxes are one thing.

You want to target a certain segment for each special project you have going.

Why would the top .5 percent of people pay more for your special project?
 
Mason66 said:
What the kid learns at school they bring home.

You can't say kids are better off today than they were before.
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What kids learn at home they bring to school.
 
This Liberal happy ass raised her kids with
Corporal punishment
Started a league giving trophies to only winners (no partcipation trophies over here bull****)
Went after a school administrator that talked to my kid like a dog (she was fired)
Discipline was my job and no one else's (then again everyone knew this and didn't try that bull**** with mine)

My neighbors that thought me & my kids weren't good enough
Lets see 2 heroin addicts
1 prostitute
1 (not sure) but federal agents were taking boxes and the kid out.

So yeah I'll take my liberal way any day.

The story in the OP is missing a lot. What is bad? What trouble? What were the previous steps taken?

I'll tell you another story, young man failing in school, extremely tired sleeps thru much of school, not a trouble maker but very quiet keeps his head down, doesn't interact at all.
3 boys go after him gang up on him a fight starts, this kid breaks 1 kids wrist and basically beats the **** outta all 3 assholes.
The school goes to expel him.... 1 teacher stands up for him and finds out his mom is battling cancer and not winning, dad is working 2 jobs, he's working at night to help with medical bills and he's a 17 year old blackbelt just trying to figure it all out. Sorry he did nothing wrong but defend himself. This is a kid that should be helped but because he bested 3 assholes...kick him out, get rid of him.
 
Mason66 said:
Taxes are one thing.
You want to target a certain segment for each special project you have going.
Why would the top .5 percent of people pay more for your special project?
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Because it hurts them, and the nation less, than taking it primarily from people with less.
We have a very pro-business, pro-free market system in the U.S., with relatively few social safety nets, and unions. This means low wages and benefits. If you couple that with high taxes on that same group, it's calamity. If you offset that with progressive taxes, you create class warfare but you to a degree, remedy that disparity.

You can push for higher taxes on the middle class and poor, and greater hiring power and having more international wages and tax breaks that enrich the top 0.5% ever-more, and depress wages, etc. I just think that would be stupid.

If you want to force higher wages at the front-end, by all means, let's tax less progressively. You can find examples of each of those models in other developed nations. U.S. is on the extreme end of that.

And in the end, if you want a more disciplined school, that's got to be purchased with time/money. If republicans would wake the **** up, they might direct government funding to things that help offset the bleeding heart liberals, rather than pillaging from lower society while enriching the wealthy, which just exacerbates the problem.

It's like we have liberals sitting there deciding how to best grow the nation via government funding, while Republicans have their fingers in their ears saying it NEVER WORKS!! As they fund the military corporations, and tax cuts for the wealthy. Can you please join the ****ing conversation instead of letting your leaders pillage and burn?
 
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The victim mentality seems strongest among gun owners, especially the semi/auto fans, who need their guns to fight an insurrection when their long awaited day comes...
 
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DamnYankee said:
Did I say that? No. There's always going to be some kids that are problem children, it's called life. I'm merely presenting something to think about.
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Your post inferred that people were not free to raise their children right because of the influence of liberal schools. I am saying that your children are your children. If they are screwed up, you own it. Bad teachers, bad schools, bad relatives, don't help, but they are your kids. To claim otherwise is a form of claiming to be a victim of someone else.
 
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