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Democrats are the real fiscal conservatives

Glen Contrarian

Glen Contrarian

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Because that's precisely what the numbers show.

Every single Democratic president since the Depression first took office with an economic deficit...and only FDR and Carter left office with a bigger deficit (and FDR had this little thing called "World War II" going on - you may have heard of it). ALL other Democratic presidents left office with either a SMALLER deficit (or with a budget surplus) than when they first took office.

How many Republican presidents since the Depression had a budget surplus, or left office with a smaller deficit than when they first took office?

None. Not a single one. And remember, you canNOT address the federal debt without FIRST addressing the federal deficit.

In other words, for almost ninety years, the documented history shows that Democratic presidents have been demonstrably more careful with our taxpayer dollars than have Republican presidents...and Trump has shown that he is going to continue that trend.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Because that's precisely what the numbers show.

Every single Democratic president since the Depression first took office with an economic deficit...and only FDR and Carter left office with a bigger deficit (and FDR had this little thing called "World War II" going on - you may have heard of it). ALL other Democratic presidents left office with either a SMALLER deficit (or with a budget surplus) than when they first took office.

How many Republican presidents since the Depression had a budget surplus, or left office with a smaller deficit than when they first took office?

None. Not a single one. And remember, you canNOT address the federal debt without FIRST addressing the federal deficit.

In other words, for almost ninety years, the documented history shows that Democratic presidents have been demonstrably more careful with our taxpayer dollars than have Republican presidents...and Trump has shown that he is going to continue that trend.
Click to expand...

That's BS, every Democrat President with a Republican Congress*********

The only combination where we prevent spending is a democrat President and Republican congress... because then republicans go in fiscal responsibility mode to prevent Democrats from passing anything. Any other combination, it's a spending spree.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Because that's precisely what the numbers show.

Every single Democratic president since the Depression first took office with an economic deficit...and only FDR and Carter left office with a bigger deficit (and FDR had this little thing called "World War II" going on - you may have heard of it). ALL other Democratic presidents left office with either a SMALLER deficit (or with a budget surplus) than when they first took office.

How many Republican presidents since the Depression had a budget surplus, or left office with a smaller deficit than when they first took office?

None. Not a single one. And remember, you canNOT address the federal debt without FIRST addressing the federal deficit.

In other words, for almost ninety years, the documented history shows that Democratic presidents have been demonstrably more careful with our taxpayer dollars than have Republican presidents...and Trump has shown that he is going to continue that trend.
Click to expand...

:roll:

Obama doubled the national debt, but hey, as long as the deficit of his last year was smaller than the deficit of Bush's year, that's all that counts, right?
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Because that's precisely what the numbers show.

Every single Democratic president since the Depression first took office with an economic deficit...and only FDR and Carter left office with a bigger deficit (and FDR had this little thing called "World War II" going on - you may have heard of it). ALL other Democratic presidents left office with either a SMALLER deficit (or with a budget surplus) than when they first took office.

How many Republican presidents since the Depression had a budget surplus, or left office with a smaller deficit than when they first took office?

None. Not a single one. And remember, you canNOT address the federal debt without FIRST addressing the federal deficit.

In other words, for almost ninety years, the documented history shows that Democratic presidents have been demonstrably more careful with our taxpayer dollars than have Republican presidents...and Trump has shown that he is going to continue that trend.
Click to expand...



could you possible post the deficit by year in constant dollars, this chart does not support your thesis.

https://www.usgovernmentdebt.us/include/usgs_chart4p01.png

nor this one but note it is in GDP terms

https://www.usgovernmentdebt.us/include/usgs_chart4p02.png
 
celticwar17 said:
That's BS, every Democrat President with a Republican Congress*********

The only combination where we prevent spending is a Democrat President and Republican congress... because then republicans go into fiscal responsibility mode to prevent Democrats from passing anything. Any other combination, it's a spending spree.
Click to expand...

Both Bill Clinton and President Obama achieved their deficit reduction largely with tax increases. Did Republicans force them to do that too?
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Because that's precisely what the numbers show.

Every single Democratic president since the Depression first took office with an economic deficit...and only FDR and Carter left office with a bigger deficit (and FDR had this little thing called "World War II" going on - you may have heard of it). ALL other Democratic presidents left office with either a SMALLER deficit (or with a budget surplus) than when they first took office.

How many Republican presidents since the Depression had a budget surplus, or left office with a smaller deficit than when they first took office?

None. Not a single one. And remember, you canNOT address the federal debt without FIRST addressing the federal deficit.

In other words, for almost ninety years, the documented history shows that Democratic presidents have been demonstrably more careful with our taxpayer dollars than have Republican presidents...and Trump has shown that he is going to continue that trend.
Click to expand...

Please tell us what policies each of these Presidents was EXCLUSIVELY responsible for that created the scenarios you are pushing. Not the Bills they signed, but the actual direct and exclusive actions they took.
 
Harshaw said:
:roll:

Obama doubled the national debt, but hey, as long as the deficit of his last year was smaller than the deficit of Bush's year, that's all that counts, right?
Click to expand...

Correct, because virtually all of the debt that you're trying to pin on Obama was actually a result of things that started under Bush, and ended under Obama....

110520_debt.webp

The wars in Iraq, the Bush Tax Cuts, and the economic downturn itself were all inherited by Obama. He had little or no choice, but to accept them, therefore, it only makes rational sense to see what the deficit looked like toward the end of his term after he's had a chance to actually implement most of his policies.
 
MrWonka said:
Both Bill Clinton and President Obama achieved their deficit reduction largely with tax increases. Did Republicans force them to do that too?
Click to expand...

That is not true. Look at Bill Clintons first years of President, he had a large deficit... then look at the years when it became a republican congress, when Newt Gingrich proposed the fiscal policies. Same thing with Obama, absurd spending spree until it became a Republican congress.
 
MrWonka said:
Correct, because virtually all of the debt that you're trying to pin on Obama was actually a result of things that started under Bush, and ended under Obama....

View attachment 67229108

The wars in Iraq, the Bush Tax Cuts, and the economic downturn itself were all inherited by Obama. He had little or no choice, but to accept them, therefore, it only makes rational sense to see what the deficit looked like toward the end of his term after he's had a chance to actually implement most of his policies.
Click to expand...

:shrug:

I spoke in the same terms of the OP, who didn't take anything into account except the numbers. No context. No "legacy policies." Just the numbers.

I expect you now to go after the OP for all the context he didn't include. No, wait; I really don't.

Bye, now.
 
faithful_servant said:
Please tell us what policies each of these Presidents was EXCLUSIVELY responsible for that created the scenarios you are pushing. Not the Bills they signed, but the actual direct and exclusive actions they took.
Click to expand...

Guy, if one looks too closely at the trees, one forgets the forest. There's a time and place for looking down into the details of each and every issue...but the OVERALL fact - FACT! - is that time and time and time again, Democratic presidents have been more responsible with our taxpayer dollars than have Republicans. You trying to dig down into the individual policies of each and every individual president is - metaphorically speaking - sorta like trying to point at this or that set of details to explain away why your team lost the Super Bowl, when the fact remains that your team LOST the Super Bowl...again and again and again.

You can see the number for yourself - this has held true for almost ninety years. You can't explain it away by digging into the minutiae of policy.
 
Bootz said:
could you possible post the deficit by year in constant dollars, this chart does not support your thesis.

https://www.usgovernmentdebt.us/include/usgs_chart4p01.png
Click to expand...

That's DEBT. As I pointed out in the OP, you canNOT even begin to pay down the debt unless you FIRST get rid of the deficit. Or do you not know the difference between the two?

nor this one but note it is in GDP terms

https://www.usgovernmentdebt.us/include/usgs_chart4p02.png
Click to expand...

AGAIN, you're fixating on debt.

Look, guy - if America's a household, and the household is deep in debt, how do you pay off the debt? You canNOT even begin to pay off the household debt unless the household's income is GREATER than the household EXPENSES. When America's tax revenue is greater than our expenses, we have a SURPLUS...and only then can we begin to pay off the debt.

That being said, if we can't have a budget surplus, then we can at least DECREASE the deficit in order to slow down the increase of the federal debt. All but two Democratic presidents since the Depression have either decreased the debt by the end of their terms, or even had a budget surplus...and these are the ONLY way to even begin to pay down the debt. ALL Republican presidents for almost ninety years, on the other hand, have only increased the deficits by the end of their terms.

So if you're going to continue to debate, at least educate yourself as to what the debt is, and how the debt CANNOT be addressed without FIRST addressing the deficit.
 
Harshaw said:
:roll:

Obama doubled the national debt, but hey, as long as the deficit of his last year was smaller than the deficit of Bush's year, that's all that counts, right?
Click to expand...

And just imagine how much greater our debt would be if he had NOT decreased the deficit by half. Oh, wait - we're about to find out how much greater our debt will go since Your Boy Trump just slashed our nation's tax revenue (you know, the stuff that pays our nation's bills) by INCREASING our deficit by $1.5T. That's like having a household buried in debt and the husband says, "I'll get us out of debt by taking a lower-paying job so we'll have less of a household income!"

Or do you not grasp the fact that one canNOT even begin to address the debt without first addressing the deficit? That's something I've seen in conservatives time and time and time again - an utter lack of understanding of the difference of and relationship between "debt" and "deficit".
 
celticwar17 said:
That's BS, every Democrat President with a Republican Congress*********

The only combination where we prevent spending is a democrat President and Republican congress... because then republicans go in fiscal responsibility mode to prevent Democrats from passing anything. Any other combination, it's a spending spree.
Click to expand...

Apparently you don't know your history - the Republicans didn't take Congress until 1992. FDR, Truman, Kennedy, LBJ, and Carter all had Democratic congresses. FDR and Carter both increased the deficits during their terms, but FDR gets a pass because of this little thing called "World War II". That leaves Truman, Kennedy, and LBJ...all three of whom either decreased the deficits during their terms or had a budget surplus...and all three did so with Democratic congresses.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
And just imagine how much greater our debt would be if he had NOT decreased the deficit by half. Oh, wait - we're about to find out how much greater our debt will go since Your Boy Trump just slashed our nation's tax revenue (you know, the stuff that pays our nation's bills) by INCREASING our deficit by $1.5T. That's like having a household buried in debt and the husband says, "I'll get us out of debt by taking a lower-paying job so we'll have less of a household income!"

Or do you not grasp the fact that one canNOT even begin to address the debt without first addressing the deficit? That's something I've seen in conservatives time and time and time again - an utter lack of understanding of the difference of and relationship between "debt" and "deficit".
Click to expand...

Not one bit of this had a thing to do with what I said.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Apparently you don't know your history - the Republicans didn't take Congress until 1992. FDR, Truman, Kennedy, LBJ, and Carter all had Democratic congresses.
Click to expand...

:roll:

Combined--Control_of_the_U.S._House_of_Representatives_-_Control_of_the_U.S._Senate.png
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Because that's precisely what the numbers show.

Every single Democratic president since the Depression first took office with an economic deficit...and only FDR and Carter left office with a bigger deficit (and FDR had this little thing called "World War II" going on - you may have heard of it). ALL other Democratic presidents left office with either a SMALLER deficit (or with a budget surplus) than when they first took office.

How many Republican presidents since the Depression had a budget surplus, or left office with a smaller deficit than when they first took office?

None. Not a single one. And remember, you canNOT address the federal debt without FIRST addressing the federal deficit.

In other words, for almost ninety years, the documented history shows that Democratic presidents have been demonstrably more careful with our taxpayer dollars than have Republican presidents...and Trump has shown that he is going to continue that trend.
Click to expand...

It took me a while before I recognized this as actually the truth, but it is. I considered myself a 'fiscal conservative' and a Republican for a long time. In the Bush II era I started working with a big Democrat who was a data and evidence kind of guy, and very smart. Anyway, we kept having these political 'debates' at work and I just couldn't make the case for the GOP being fiscally conservative with evidence. Everything I tried, he shot down, and there was nothing I could say because the data were what they were. So instead of dealing with the awful cognitive dissonance of believing stuff contradicted by the facts, I changed my beliefs. Life is easier today.

Look at the contortions Republicans have to go through to defend the GOP record on the budget. I read ahead in the thread, and it's pretty funny. Glad I no longer have to do that exercise in intellectual futility.

Bottom line is all you need to know about GOP fiscal policy is this:

"You know, Paul, Reagan proved deficits don't matter. We won [the election. More tax cuts] is our due."

That's it. The end!
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Because that's precisely what the numbers show.

Every single Democratic president since the Depression first took office with an economic deficit...and only FDR and Carter left office with a bigger deficit (and FDR had this little thing called "World War II" going on - you may have heard of it). ALL other Democratic presidents left office with either a SMALLER deficit (or with a budget surplus) than when they first took office.

How many Republican presidents since the Depression had a budget surplus, or left office with a smaller deficit than when they first took office?

None. Not a single one. And remember, you canNOT address the federal debt without FIRST addressing the federal deficit.

In other words, for almost ninety years, the documented history shows that Democratic presidents have been demonstrably more careful with our taxpayer dollars than have Republican presidents...and Trump has shown that he is going to continue that trend.
Click to expand...
"democrats are the real fiscal conservatives"

Well, you know, It'd be nice if democrats didn't claim the opposite. At least the republicans give lip service, and so fiscal conservatives like myself can hold them to account. anything goes with democrats.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
It had everything to do with what you said. It's not my fault if you're either too ignorant (not stupid, but ignorant - note the difference) or not self-honest enough to see it.
Click to expand...

No, it was a complete non-sequitur. This post of yours here is what we call "irony." You're simply changing your premise.

Many, if not most, of your posts come from a place of "DEMOCRATZ R ALL GUD, REPUBLICANZ R ALL BAD." The world is lot more complex than that.
 
DarkWizard12 said:
"democrats are the real fiscal conservatives"

Well, you know, It'd be nice if democrats didn't claim the opposite. At least the republicans give lip service, and so fiscal conservatives like myself can hold them to account. anything goes with democrats.
Click to expand...

They're not held to account. Sure, some Republican voters whine and cry about spending, but it doesn't hurt the GOP at the ballot box. Certainly actually CUTTING spending would hurt worse because any real cuts would have to hit seniors or the military, and perhaps Medicaid and food stamps, but lots of rural folks rely on those too.

So they hand out candy in the form of tax cuts, blow up spending, then start caring about deficits again when a Democrat sits in the WH.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
That's DEBT. As I pointed out in the OP, you canNOT even begin to pay down the debt unless you FIRST get rid of the deficit. Or do you not know the difference between the two?



AGAIN, you're fixating on debt.

Look, guy - if America's a household, and the household is deep in debt, how do you pay off the debt? You canNOT even begin to pay off the household debt unless the household's income is GREATER than the household EXPENSES. When America's tax revenue is greater than our expenses, we have a SURPLUS...and only then can we begin to pay off the debt.

That being said, if we can't have a budget surplus, then we can at least DECREASE the deficit in order to slow down the increase of the federal debt. All but two Democratic presidents since the Depression have either decreased the debt by the end of their terms, or even had a budget surplus...and these are the ONLY way to even begin to pay down the debt. ALL Republican presidents for almost ninety years, on the other hand, have only increased the deficits by the end of their terms.

So if you're going to continue to debate, at least educate yourself as to what the debt is, and how the debt CANNOT be addressed without FIRST addressing the deficit.
Click to expand...

a smaller deficit still adds to the debt, Eisenhower had 3 balanced budgets, Truman none. Kennedy and johnson none, carter none, clinton none until the Republicans took the house, Obama not one. So other than the republican budgets under Clinton since the 60's they all had deficits every year and the debt increased. your words All but two Democratic presidents since the Depression have either decreased the debt by the
the real issue is what has happened to the debt and deficits since 1981 and continue today.
 
DarkWizard12 said:
"democrats are the real fiscal conservatives"

Well, you know, It'd be nice if democrats didn't claim the opposite. At least the republicans give lip service, and so fiscal conservatives like myself can hold them to account. anything goes with democrats.
Click to expand...

when is the GOP ever held accountable for lying? Most Republican voters vote straight ticket Republican every election cycle no matter what. Sure, as another poster pointed out, they may whine and complain, but when it comes time to vote...they vote all Republican. The GOP knows this, hence why they continue to lie to their constituency all the time, knowing they will NEVER face any repercussions for their actions.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Guy, if one looks too closely at the trees, one forgets the forest. There's a time and place for looking down into the details of each and every issue...but the OVERALL fact - FACT! - is that time and time and time again, Democratic presidents have been more responsible with our taxpayer dollars than have Republicans. You trying to dig down into the individual policies of each and every individual president is - metaphorically speaking - sorta like trying to point at this or that set of details to explain away why your team lost the Super Bowl, when the fact remains that your team LOST the Super Bowl...again and again and again.

You can see the number for yourself - this has held true for almost ninety years. You can't explain it away by digging into the minutiae of policy.
Click to expand...

So once you again you're confusing correlation and causation...
 
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