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Why The Town Hall(gun control) Made Me More Pro Gun

TaterTots

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I was watching CNN with an open mind, but I did notice a few things. The people in the audience hate facts and did not want to hear them. I understand people in the crowd are going through a hard time, but the things I heard still raised a flag. When the NRA woman came on stage and stated the shooter shouldn't have been able to purchase a firearm due to the police being called over 30 times and how it should have shown on the background check she was heckled. When the NRA woman pointed out semi automatic weapons technically existed during the 2nd amendment era she was heckled. Why is that? Why would she be heckled for pointing out obvious things? Why does no one want to talk about how people reported the shooter to the FBI for saying he wants to be a "professional school shooter" and nothing came from it?

There is a very strong bias right now. Even if someone that is pro gun points out flaws in the system they are ridiculed. Why? It honestly makes me want to donate money.
 
If a mod wants to move this thread to the gun control sections I am A OK with that. I thought that's where I created it anyway.
 
There is a very strong bias right now. Even if someone that is pro gun points out flaws in the system they are ridiculed. Why? It honestly makes me want to donate money.

No one at that town hall was anti-gun. I realize how easy it is to accept the "logic" of the right wing, however, it is not about banning guns. It is about banning certain guns that are unnecessary for ones needs as Scalia pointed out in the Heller decision. One has the right to own a gun, and the government has the right to decide which guns are acceptable, and who can own them, period. Been that way since 1934, or thereabouts.

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/554/570/opinion.html

Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited. From Blackstone through the 19th-century cases, commentators and courts routinely explained that the right was not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose. See, e.g., Sheldon, in 5 Blume 346; Rawle 123; Pomeroy 152–153; Abbott 333. For example, the majority of the 19th-century courts to consider the question held that prohibitions on carrying concealed weapons were lawful under the Second Amendment or state analogues. See, e.g., State v. Chandler, 5 La. Ann., at 489–490; Nunn v. State, 1 Ga., at 251; see generally 2 Kent *340, n. 2; The American Students’ Blackstone 84, n. 11 (G. Chase ed. 1884). Although we do not undertake an exhaustive historical analysis today of the full scope of the Second Amendment, nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.[Footnote 26]

We also recognize another important limitation on the right to keep and carry arms. Miller said, as we have explained, that the sorts of weapons protected were those “in common use at the time.” 307 U. S., at 179. We think that limitation is fairly supported by the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of “dangerous and unusual weapons.” See 4 Blackstone 148–149 (1769); 3 B. Wilson, Works of the Honourable James Wilson 79 (1804); J. Dunlap, The New-York Justice 8 (1815); C. Humphreys, A Compendium of the Common Law in Force in Kentucky 482 (1822); 1 W. Russell, A Treatise on Crimes and Indictable Misdemeanors 271–272 (1831); H. Stephen, Summary of the Criminal Law 48 (1840); E. Lewis, An Abridgment of the Criminal Law of the United States 64 (1847); F. Wharton, A Treatise on the Criminal Law of the United States 726 (1852). See also State v. Langford, 10 N. C. 381, 383–384 (1824); O’Neill v. State, 16 Ala. 65, 67 (1849); English v. State, 35 Tex. 473, 476 (1871); State v. Lanier, 71 N. C. 288, 289 (1874).

It may be objected that if weapons that are most useful in military service—M-16 rifles and the like—may be banned, then the Second Amendment right is completely detached from the prefatory clause. But as we have said, the conception of the militia at the time of the Second Amendment’s ratification was the body of all citizens capable of military service, who would bring the sorts of lawful weapons that they possessed at home to militia duty. It may well be true today that a militia, to be as effective as militias in the 18th century, would require sophisticated arms that are highly unusual in society at large. Indeed, it may be true that no amount of small arms could be useful against modern-day bombers and tanks. But the fact that modern developments have limited the degree of fit between the prefatory clause and the protected right cannot change our interpretation of the right.
 
I was watching CNN with an open mind, but I did notice a few things. The people in the audience hate facts and did not want to hear them. I understand people in the crowd are going through a hard time, but the things I heard still raised a flag. When the NRA woman came on stage and stated the shooter shouldn't have been able to purchase a firearm due to the police being called over 30 times and how it should have shown on the background check she was heckled. When the NRA woman pointed out semi automatic weapons technically existed during the 2nd amendment era she was heckled. Why is that? Why would she be heckled for pointing out obvious things? Why does no one want to talk about how people reported the shooter to the FBI for saying he wants to be a "professional school shooter" and nothing came from it?

There is a very strong bias right now. Even if someone that is pro gun points out flaws in the system they are ridiculed. Why? It honestly makes me want to donate money.

Exactly, and if this is so important that some folks are willing to be uncivil to sell their point of view then they are almost certainly lying.

We did not just now fall off of a Turnip Truck.

BTW: I LOVE your name.

:2wave:
 
No one at that town hall was anti-gun. I realize how easy it is to accept the "logic" of the right wing, however, it is not about banning guns. It is about banning certain guns that are unnecessary for ones needs as Scalia pointed out in the Heller decision. One has the right to own a gun, and the government has the right to decide which guns are acceptable, and who can own them, period. Been that way since 1934, or thereabouts.

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/554/570/opinion.html

Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited. From Blackstone through the 19th-century cases, commentators and courts routinely explained that the right was not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose. See, e.g., Sheldon, in 5 Blume 346; Rawle 123; Pomeroy 152–153; Abbott 333. For example, the majority of the 19th-century courts to consider the question held that prohibitions on carrying concealed weapons were lawful under the Second Amendment or state analogues. See, e.g., State v. Chandler, 5 La. Ann., at 489–490; Nunn v. State, 1 Ga., at 251; see generally 2 Kent *340, n. 2; The American Students’ Blackstone 84, n. 11 (G. Chase ed. 1884). Although we do not undertake an exhaustive historical analysis today of the full scope of the Second Amendment, nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.[Footnote 26]

We also recognize another important limitation on the right to keep and carry arms. Miller said, as we have explained, that the sorts of weapons protected were those “in common use at the time.” 307 U. S., at 179. We think that limitation is fairly supported by the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of “dangerous and unusual weapons.” See 4 Blackstone 148–149 (1769); 3 B. Wilson, Works of the Honourable James Wilson 79 (1804); J. Dunlap, The New-York Justice 8 (1815); C. Humphreys, A Compendium of the Common Law in Force in Kentucky 482 (1822); 1 W. Russell, A Treatise on Crimes and Indictable Misdemeanors 271–272 (1831); H. Stephen, Summary of the Criminal Law 48 (1840); E. Lewis, An Abridgment of the Criminal Law of the United States 64 (1847); F. Wharton, A Treatise on the Criminal Law of the United States 726 (1852). See also State v. Langford, 10 N. C. 381, 383–384 (1824); O’Neill v. State, 16 Ala. 65, 67 (1849); English v. State, 35 Tex. 473, 476 (1871); State v. Lanier, 71 N. C. 288, 289 (1874).

It may be objected that if weapons that are most useful in military service—M-16 rifles and the like—may be banned, then the Second Amendment right is completely detached from the prefatory clause. But as we have said, the conception of the militia at the time of the Second Amendment’s ratification was the body of all citizens capable of military service, who would bring the sorts of lawful weapons that they possessed at home to militia duty. It may well be true today that a militia, to be as effective as militias in the 18th century, would require sophisticated arms that are highly unusual in society at large. Indeed, it may be true that no amount of small arms could be useful against modern-day bombers and tanks. But the fact that modern developments have limited the degree of fit between the prefatory clause and the protected right cannot change our interpretation of the right.

First of all, I appreciate you taking the time to reply to my post. However, you left out part of my post and responded to a small portion. I'm more so curious as to why simple things like someone being allowed to purchase a firearm when the police were called over 30 times was allowed. Why isn't that flagged? It's what the NRA woman said and was heckled. Simple things I would of imagined most people would agree with was met with ridicule. Looking for a answer to that. Thanks again for responding with such depth(not being sarcastic).
 
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No one at that town hall was anti-gun. I realize how easy it is to accept the "logic" of the right wing, however, it is not about banning guns. It is about banning certain guns that are unnecessary for ones needs as Scalia pointed out in the Heller decision. One has the right to own a gun, and the government has the right to decide which guns are acceptable, and who can own them, period. Been that way since 1934, or thereabouts.

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/554/570/opinion.html

Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited. From Blackstone through the 19th-century cases, commentators and courts routinely explained that the right was not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose. See, e.g., Sheldon, in 5 Blume 346; Rawle 123; Pomeroy 152–153; Abbott 333. For example, the majority of the 19th-century courts to consider the question held that prohibitions on carrying concealed weapons were lawful under the Second Amendment or state analogues. See, e.g., State v. Chandler, 5 La. Ann., at 489–490; Nunn v. State, 1 Ga., at 251; see generally 2 Kent *340, n. 2; The American Students’ Blackstone 84, n. 11 (G. Chase ed. 1884). Although we do not undertake an exhaustive historical analysis today of the full scope of the Second Amendment, nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.[Footnote 26]

We also recognize another important limitation on the right to keep and carry arms. Miller said, as we have explained, that the sorts of weapons protected were those “in common use at the time.” 307 U. S., at 179. We think that limitation is fairly supported by the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of “dangerous and unusual weapons.” See 4 Blackstone 148–149 (1769); 3 B. Wilson, Works of the Honourable James Wilson 79 (1804); J. Dunlap, The New-York Justice 8 (1815); C. Humphreys, A Compendium of the Common Law in Force in Kentucky 482 (1822); 1 W. Russell, A Treatise on Crimes and Indictable Misdemeanors 271–272 (1831); H. Stephen, Summary of the Criminal Law 48 (1840); E. Lewis, An Abridgment of the Criminal Law of the United States 64 (1847); F. Wharton, A Treatise on the Criminal Law of the United States 726 (1852). See also State v. Langford, 10 N. C. 381, 383–384 (1824); O’Neill v. State, 16 Ala. 65, 67 (1849); English v. State, 35 Tex. 473, 476 (1871); State v. Lanier, 71 N. C. 288, 289 (1874).

It may be objected that if weapons that are most useful in military service—M-16 rifles and the like—may be banned, then the Second Amendment right is completely detached from the prefatory clause. But as we have said, the conception of the militia at the time of the Second Amendment’s ratification was the body of all citizens capable of military service, who would bring the sorts of lawful weapons that they possessed at home to militia duty. It may well be true today that a militia, to be as effective as militias in the 18th century, would require sophisticated arms that are highly unusual in society at large. Indeed, it may be true that no amount of small arms could be useful against modern-day bombers and tanks. But the fact that modern developments have limited the degree of fit between the prefatory clause and the protected right cannot change our interpretation of the right.

Note the two bold points. How are you going to resolve this issue of banning the AR-15 when it is a fact that AR-15's are the most common rifle used today?
 
I was watching CNN with an open mind, but I did notice a few things. The people in the audience hate facts and did not want to hear them. I understand people in the crowd are going through a hard time, but the things I heard still raised a flag. When the NRA woman came on stage and stated the shooter shouldn't have been able to purchase a firearm due to the police being called over 30 times and how it should have shown on the background check she was heckled. When the NRA woman pointed out semi automatic weapons technically existed during the 2nd amendment era she was heckled. Why is that? Why would she be heckled for pointing out obvious things? Why does no one want to talk about how people reported the shooter to the FBI for saying he wants to be a "professional school shooter" and nothing came from it?

There is a very strong bias right now. Even if someone that is pro gun points out flaws in the system they are ridiculed. Why? It honestly makes me want to donate money.

The reason that she was heckled was two fold.

One: People simply do not want to listen to facts right now. They're on an emotional overload and when people are too emotional they will not listen to facts, or care about them.

Two: I have no doubt that some of the hecklers have been against guns their entire lives and is using this tragedy to push their agenda.
 
I was watching CNN with an open mind, but I did notice a few things. The people in the audience hate facts and did not want to hear them. I understand people in the crowd are going through a hard time, but the things I heard still raised a flag. When the NRA woman came on stage and stated the shooter shouldn't have been able to purchase a firearm due to the police being called over 30 times and how it should have shown on the background check she was heckled. When the NRA woman pointed out semi automatic weapons technically existed during the 2nd amendment era she was heckled. Why is that? Why would she be heckled for pointing out obvious things? Why does no one want to talk about how people reported the shooter to the FBI for saying he wants to be a "professional school shooter" and nothing came from it?

There is a very strong bias right now. Even if someone that is pro gun points out flaws in the system they are ridiculed. Why? It honestly makes me want to donate money.

Blind partisan rage. The pain of the situation is converted into anger which is funneled through people’s preexisting partisan bias. They made her a scapegoat.

What sickens me really deeply is the sheriff knew when he was sitting on that stage that the armed “resource officer” had sat outside and never attempted to intervene, and he sat there as people in the crowd called the lady a murderer. He let the crowd blindly eviscerate her as a scapegoat while knowing about fundamental breakdowns that took place with regard to this kid.
 
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I was watching CNN with an open mind, but I did notice a few things. The people in the audience hate facts and did not want to hear them. I understand people in the crowd are going through a hard time, but the things I heard still raised a flag. When the NRA woman came on stage and stated the shooter shouldn't have been able to purchase a firearm due to the police being called over 30 times and how it should have shown on the background check she was heckled. When the NRA woman pointed out semi automatic weapons technically existed during the 2nd amendment era she was heckled. Why is that? Why would she be heckled for pointing out obvious things? Why does no one want to talk about how people reported the shooter to the FBI for saying he wants to be a "professional school shooter" and nothing came from it?

There is a very strong bias right now. Even if someone that is pro gun points out flaws in the system they are ridiculed. Why? It honestly makes me want to donate money.

Well you should actually check to see if what people are telling you is true. Dana Losche straight lied or she is too dumb to know. There weren’t semi-auto guns in “the time of 2A drafting ratification”.
The closet you get is the Civil War with first rapid fire gun, the Gatling, that they needed to pull around by a horse. The semi-auto gun wasn’t for 100 years after the ratification of the 2A.

That one of the things that seriously irritates me about rightist. They listen to their professional media (talk radio & Fox) and just accept what they say as gospel.

Be smart! Question what you hear then form your opinions.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
First of all, I appreciate you taking the time to reply to my post. However, you left out part of my post and responded to a small portion. I'm more so curious as to why simple things like someone being allowed to purchase a firearm when the police were called over 30 times was allowed. Why isn't that flagged? It's what the NRA woman said and was heckled. Simple things I would of imagined most people would agree with was met with ridicule. Looking for a answer to that. Thanks again for responding with such depth(not being sarcastic).

I was just addressing a common misconception by many when it comes to the gun issue. As I pointed out, and you, along with many others, ignore the reality that you have no right to own an AR-15 anymore then you have the right to own a missile, a bazooka, an M-16, etc. And the very idea that "bump stocks" have not been banned following the massacre at Las Vegas is asinine. Then we have the reality that Congress, particularly the Republicans, have done nothing to address the mental health issue since the Va. Tech shooting in 2012 where the shooter had been adjudicated by the Court as mentally ill, and still was not on the "list." Now we have another case where the police were called over 30 times with reports of him being a danger (of course, to the right wing it was the FBI's fault they did not investigate more).

Then the question is raised as to how would you confiscate these guns when there are so many in use. I would say the same way they confiscated the Thompson's when they are made illegal, Other ways would be through the purchase of ammunition. After a point in time the owner would not be able to purchase ammo for the weapon, and yes I know that the .223 is used in other guns.

Point is, there are ways to address the issue if one is concerned about the children more then they are about their "toys". It isn't the way that Trump has addressed the issue by cutting funding for school safety, mental heath treatment, or even the FBI. It is by taking common sense approaches, and ending ridiculing those you disagree with by claiming it is an "emotional reflex". That in itself is an emotional reflex.
 
Note the two bold points. How are you going to resolve this issue of banning the AR-15 when it is a fact that AR-15's are the most common rifle used today?

"Law abiding" civilians will voluntarily turn theirs in, or become the "criminals" they claim to abhor. And I seriously doubt it is the most "common rifle used" today. Out of all the people I know, including vets, the ony one I know that has one is my brother, and he has two with 3000 rounds of ammo, and several large capacity mags. I used to have two along with an AK-47, and sold them.

However, is your reasoning a just excuse to do nothing?

BTW, 8 million out of how many millions is not the "most common used".

https://www.pri.org/stories/2018-02-15/most-popular-rifle-america-was-used-countrys-latest-shooting

"On the one hand, the kind of propaganda of fear is encouraging people to buy and have available the next best firearm on the market," says Squires. "The whole raft of characteristics claimed for the AR-15 suggest it is a tough and resilient gun and only a real man can handle this kind of firepower."

A standard AR-15 magazine holds 30 bullets. But in most states, including Florida, the rifles can be legally outfitted with high-capacity magazines that can hold more rounds. The suspect in yesterday's shooting reportedly had multiple magazines when he surrendered to police."
 
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Well you should actually check to see if what people are telling you is true. Dana Losche straight lied or she is too dumb to know. There weren’t semi-auto guns in “the time of 2A drafting ratification”.
The closet you get is the Civil War with first rapid fire gun, the Gatling, that they needed to pull around by a horse. The semi-auto gun wasn’t for 100 years after the ratification of the 2A.

That one of the things that seriously irritates me about rightist. They listen to their professional media (talk radio & Fox) and just accept what they say as gospel.

Be smart! Question what you hear then form your opinions.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's not true. When she said that I thought she was lying so I did a bunch of research after she made that comment about semi automatics existing or being in production back then. George Washington himself commissioned 100 Belton Flintlocks. They existed. I feel like a lot of people do not know what a semi automatic weapon is. It's essentially the ability to fire more than one shot in succession without reloading.

Granted, it still wasn't the same as today. Now we have high capacity magazines and such.
 
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