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Florida Student Activists Want to 'Dismantle' NRA; Trump Is 'Disgusting'; FBI Gets a Pass

iguanaman said:
LOL Making guns "normal" does not cure depression or insanity it only enables murder and suicide in young adults. The purchase of that many guns needs to be flagged and investigated in all cases.
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So you agree the problem in mental problems and not the guns.

Was that so hard?
 
iguanaman said:
The NRA is a whore for the gun makers that are profiting from this carnage that's why. They are the reason that kid could legally buy 10 rifles in a year and not raise a single red flag.
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Actually calls for more "gun control" laws (typically immedately after that "carnage") increase profits of the NRA and the gun industry.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2013/05/05/obama-still-best-gun-salesman-ever/2136201/

Gun salesman-in-chief: 52,600 a day under Obama, more seen under Hillary
 
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OlNate said:
Didn't they, though? I think it's at least debatable.

But that wasn't what I was saying...I understand why they are out there in general. I think they're wrong about what the solution is, as I've said. But I don't think they're wrong to be out there and pissed off...aren't you?
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They can do what they want, but they are not directing their anger where it could stop the next attack.
 
OlNate said:
Ah, man, that kind of wisdom almost makes you sound Canadian... ;)
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Them's fightin' words!!!!
:mrgreen:


But you know that's not how it works down there. Maybe if you guys got to the point where you could actually hear each other without screaming at each other, it would be different. But if anyone has a valid reason to get out there and start screaming, it's kids who's schools are getting shot up.
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We should still be expecting them to have an intelligent response. Just screaming isn't going to solve the problem. If they were working from an intelligent and reasoned perspective, the cry would be for protection, not blaming.
 
OlNate said:
I totally agree with you. I don't agree with what they are saying. But I surely understand why they're saying it, and I think you do too, if I've been reading you right.

But there's better places than a volsrock thread to have this conversation. To suggest that they are "vile, repulsive, arrogant, ignorant, wannabe Marxist little twits" simply because they have had enough of their schools getting shot up, with things getting worse not better through the years. I don't expect rational at this point, I expect desperate. And I'm willing to listen...it's their blood on the pavement, on the walls, I think they paid a high enough price to be part of the discussion.
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The utter lack of empathy from conservatives on issues such as these is repulsive. If they would just say something along the lines of, "Look, I know you're in shock and mourning from a terrible tragedy, but there are laws that have to exist for gun freedom, and there are other ways to prevent these tragedies," then maybe I might be more understanding. But I have zero respect for a position that derides these high schoolers as "pawns of Soros" or "enemies of freedom" or some other bull****. Zero.

Quite frankly I'm ready to accuse them of literally not caring about human lives. Their extremism has gotten to that point.
 
faithful_servant said:
We should still be expecting them to have an intelligent response. Just screaming isn't going to solve the problem. If they were working from an intelligent and reasoned perspective, the cry would be for protection, not blaming.
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Oh I forgot all about this one: Tone policing. In the quoted text above we have an example of words from someone who feels they have the right, the need, and the authority to tell people who have experienced what may be the most horrifying event of their life to date to be cool and calm in their outrage. In other words, he wants traumatized people to shut up. What he doesn't understand is, that's not his decision to make.

FS, I bet you won't have the response to people who threaten to start literal civil wars if their guns were confiscated, now, would you?
 
volsrock said:
What vile, repulsive, arrogant, ignorant, wannabe Marxist little twits with no respect for the Constitution they are. Put them in power and expect gulags everywhere the next day. Please read the article; they are truly repulsive excuses for humanity.
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Sure seems to me like they are respecting the constitution...you know, freedom of speech and assembly.

What is repulsive and vile is that you are stereotyping American citizens exercising their rights.

Volsrock fail....
 
Indian Giver said:
Furthermore, instead of dismantling the NRA, the students should invite the NRA to their school and participate in gun safety and orientation courses. Make them mandatory for graduation. That will demystify and remove the taboo on guns and give the students a real education - instead of all the cultural Marxist crap they are spoon fed daily.
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A mandatory gun safety class? I thought it was about mental health but if this Cruz kid just had a mandatory gun safety class all would've been different?
 
Mason66 said:
They can do what they want, but they are not directing their anger where it could stop the next attack.
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No, they're not, I agree.

faithful_servant said:
Them's fightin' words!!!!
:mrgreen:
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haha...thought you'd like that! ;) lolz


faithful_servant said:
We should still be expecting them to have an intelligent response. Just screaming isn't going to solve the problem. If they were working from an intelligent and reasoned perspective, the cry would be for protection, not blaming.
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I can't remember, Faithful, you got kids? This is what a cry for protection sounds like...hehe

I have only said we should hear them out, not base school security strategy off of the placards they are waving. We have let them down...the least we can do is bear the brunt of their fear and anger. And maybe this time, when things simmer down, we'll use the calm to actually do something...anything... The type of statistics around kids being killed by guns at school shouldn't and can't be acceptable. It's not a shrugable kind of thing.
 
Phys251 said:
Oh I forgot all about this one: Tone policing. In the quoted text above we have an example of words from someone who feels they have the right, the need, and the authority to tell people who have experienced what may be the most horrifying event of their life to date to be cool and calm in their outrage. In other words, he wants traumatized people to shut up. What he doesn't understand is, that's not his decision to make.

FS, I bet you won't have the response to people who threaten to start literal civil wars if their guns were confiscated, now, would you?
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"tone policing"? WTH is "tone policing"?

All I'm asking is that we stop thinking that because someone feels strongly about wrong opinion that we should give them a pass on it. We have a responsibility to use our rights well and when they are misused, we have a responsibility to call out those who are misusing them. Isn't that what YOU are asking for in this argument - that the people who are misusing their right to bear arms be called out for their misuse?? Goose and gander....
 
Phys251 said:
The utter lack of empathy from conservatives on issues such as these is repulsive. If they would just say something along the lines of, "Look, I know you're in shock and mourning from a terrible tragedy, but there are laws that have to exist for gun freedom, and there are other ways to prevent these tragedies," then maybe I might be more understanding. But I have zero respect for a position that derides these high schoolers as "pawns of Soros" or "enemies of freedom" or some other bull****. Zero.

Quite frankly I'm ready to accuse them of literally not caring about human lives. Their extremism has gotten to that point.
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I've seen variations on what asking for. They do send out their thoughts and feel for the friends families and victims. Then they usually point out some of the proposals would not prevent a like tragedy and the importance of protecting rights. The message is out there. It's the trigger/trolls threads that gets the attention. I think it's just human nature for us to focus on what triggers us and allow that to became the norm in how we view opposition.
 
OlNate said:
Ok, fair enough, I retract it, they should be scrutinized as well then. Maybe I'm just not sure what there is to criticize about organizations funding kids' ability to be heard. If they were somehow indoctrinating the kids, that would be a different story, but I wouldn't jump to that as my first conclusion given the events of the last week. But, ok, sure, have a look at them. Just don't make it an easy out to shut out the call for help from the kids...generally speaking, I don't get the sense that you are advocating for that.
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Those "supporting organizations" should be named by the "news" outlets, just as the NRA is. Too many press reports make it seem that "everyone" is spontaneously calling for more "gun control" when they know that is pure BS - see Floriduh state gun and SYG laws. I am tired of the press telling us what (all of?) these kids "really meant to be saying" instead of putting their own words on the news (complete with every other word being "like" or "you know").

My point is that Floriduh school security is not, in any way, dependent on passing any new (federal?) "gun control" laws - it takes political will, competent manpower and, of course, Floriduh money but not any new gun laws. These same "wise" kids knew that the "weird" kid shooter was dangerous and yet seem to give their LEOs and school "officials" a pass on having never put that "red flag" data into the NICS BGC database - many of them saw kicking him off campus as the (proper?) end of the "weird kid" story.
 
Chillfolks said:
I've seen variations on what asking for. They do send out their thoughts and feel for the friends families and victims. Then they usually point out some of the proposals would not prevent a like tragedy and the importance of protecting rights. The message is out there. It's the trigger/trolls threads that gets the attention. I think it's just human nature for us to focus on what triggers us and allow that to became the norm in how we view opposition.
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As true as that may be, the pro-gun liberty side is doing a terrible job of rolling in those troll messages. For example, after the Sandy Hook shooting, there was a viral tweet that was circulated that went something like, "Your dead children don't override my right to keep and bear arms." What a ****ing disgusting sentiment. No self-respecting gun owner should ever talk like that in the wake of a mass shooting, even if they agreed with it 100%. It's called learning how to temper your message, something that people have to do in the real world all the time.
 
iguanaman said:
The kids are doing this on their own bucko. It is the result of the wanton greed of the gun makers who never saw a gun buyer they didn't like. It has got to stop.
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Parkland is a well to do town. I don't think their parents would have much trouble chartering buses and renting hotel rooms. But all the cultist see is a conspiracy.
According to a 2008 estimate, the median income for a household in the city was $277,072, and the estimated median house value was $973,176.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkland,_Florida
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ttwtt78640 said:
Those "supporting organizations" should be named by the "news" outlets, just as the NRA is. Too many press reports make it seem that "everyone" is spontaneously calling for more "gun control" when they know that is pure BS - see Floriduh state gun and SYG laws. I am tired of the press telling us what (all of?) these kids "really meant to be saying" instead of putting their own words on the news (complete with every other word being "like" or "you know").

My point is that Floriduh school security is not, in any way, dependent on passing any new (federal?) "gun control" laws - it takes political will, competent manpower and, of course, Floriduh money but not any new gun laws. These same "wise" kids knew that the "weird" kid shooter was dangerous and yet seem to give their LEOs and school "officials" a pass on having never put that "red flag" data into the NICS BGC database - many of them saw kicking him off campus as the (proper?) end of the "weird kid" story.
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Perhaps the NRA should be funding this increased security instead of using their money to sell more guns?
 
iguanaman said:
The NRA is a whore for the gun makers that are profiting from this carnage that's why. They are the reason that kid could legally buy 10 rifles in a year and not raise a single red flag.
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Which kid bought 10 rifles in a year?

The total number of guns purchased by mass shooters over the past 20 years probably amounts to less than a couple hundred. Less than a couple minutes production from Smith or Ruger. So if manufacturers are profiting from mass murder sales, they are taking a lot of heat for a few hundred bucks. The increase in sales is coming from the uncertainty generated by the threat to future possible purchases. It's buy me now or deny me later.
 
faithful_servant said:
"tone policing"? WTH is "tone policing"?
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Tone policing when you try to silence or to talk down people who have every right to be angry and are displaying that anger in a nonviolent manner. It shows a serious lack of empathy and understanding.

All I'm asking is that we stop thinking that because someone feels strongly about wrong opinion that we should give them a pass on it. We have a responsibility to use our rights well and when they are misused, we have a responsibility to call out those who are misusing them. Isn't that what YOU are asking for in this argument - that the people who are misusing their right to bear arms be called out for their misuse?? Goose and gander....
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And there you go. Giving me a perfect example of what I was talking about: Not respecting the opinions of people whose lives are forever marred by last week's tragedy. Not me, but the students themselves. You want to play armchair quarterback with them.

Unless you yourself have lived through a mass shooting or are an expert on the matter, your advice to them is utterly worthless.
 
jimbo said:
Which kid bought 10 rifles in a year?

The total number of guns purchased by mass shooters over the past 20 years probably amounts to less than a couple hundred. Less than a couple minutes production from Smith or Ruger. So if manufacturers are profiting from mass murder sales, they are taking a lot of heat for a few hundred bucks. The increase in sales is coming from the uncertainty generated by the threat to future possible purchases. It's buy me now or deny me later.
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They don't profit from the proliferation of guns? LOL Why should a 18 year old be able to legally purchase 10 rifles in a year without raising a single red flag?

A law enforcement source briefed on the investigation told CNN that Cruz had obtained at least 10 firearms, all of them rifles. Investigators are trying to track the purchases, which Cruz appears to have made in the past year or so, the source said.
Cruz bought two weapons from Gun World of South Florida in Deerfield Beach, said Kim Waltuch, the store's CEO. She would not provide details on the types of guns he purchased or on the time frame, but said the sales followed normal protocol for Florida firearms purchases.
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https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/19/us/florida-school-shooting/index.html
 
iguanaman said:
Perhaps the NRA should be funding this increased security instead of using their money to sell more guns?
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Why should the NRA fund security for Floriduh schools? I am sure the NRA would be happy to profit from training armed Floriduh school security folks just as they profit from training those that get CCW permits or CHLs.
 
Phys251 said:
As true as that may be, the pro-gun liberty side is doing a terrible job of rolling in those troll messages. For example, after the Sandy Hook shooting, there was a viral tweet that was circulated that went something like, "Your dead children don't override my right to keep and bear arms." What a ****ing disgusting sentiment. No self-respecting gun owner should ever talk like that in the wake of a mass shooting, even if they agreed with it 100%. It's called learning how to temper your message, something that people have to do in the real world all the time.
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Only argument I would have would be how? How is anyone supposed roll in anyone else on the internet? Your side can't seem to roll back the extreme idiots proposing all out bans and confiscation.
 
volsrock said:
The FBI failed to investigate warnings about the Florida school shooter, but never mind that. And the National Rifle Association has no control over school shootings, but never mind that, either.

Two newly minted gun control activists from Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida are defending the FBI, while demanding that NRA "child murderers" dismantle and disband. And they have declined an invitation to discuss their concerns with President Donald Trump, whom they call "disgusting."

https://www.cnsnews.com/news/articl...-dismantle-nra-trump-disgusting-fbi-gets-pass

What vile, repulsive, arrogant, ignorant, wannabe Marxist little twits with no respect for the Constitution they are. Put them in power and expect gulags everywhere the next day. Please read the article; they are truly repulsive excuses for humanity.

More importantly...their local elected Sheriff failed to stop this guy in spite of 39 visits to the killer's house.

Who is paying for their chartered buses meals and hotels? Is anyone going to ask that obvious question?
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You will have to excuse their passion. It happens when you see your class mates gunned down.
 
iguanaman said:
They don't profit from the proliferation of guns? LOL Why should a 18 year old be able to legally purchase 10 rifles in a year without raising a single red flag?



https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/19/us/florida-school-shooting/index.html
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They profit from the proliferation of guns, if those purchases are new firearms. That's not the same as profiting from mass murder.

So the kid purchased 2 weapons. And according to an unidentified source to be named later may have purchased more.
 
Chillfolks said:
Only argument I would have would be how? How is anyone supposed roll in anyone else on the internet? Your side can't seem to roll back the extreme idiots proposing all out bans and confiscation.
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You're raising two points here, which I want to address separately.

First of all, from the gun liberty side, I would greatly appreciate that when these tragedies happen--which now happen with regularity in America--that they learn to accept the criticism better. Stop immediately going into a "You want to attack my liberties!" shell. There is no imminent threat of losing one's gun liberties and, as a direct result, descending into authoritarianism. Deconstruct the gun safety arguments all you want to--that's just good, old fashioned debate. But when one of their own side goes that far, it would be greatly appreciated if y'all could reign them in. Something along the lines of, "Dude, I support gun liberties too, but let's not flash it in the faces of people who are still in mourning."

Second, people who want severe or complete bans on gun ownership are simply looking at societies who already do that sort of thing. Singapore, Japan, and South Korea come to mind, and those are three of the safest nations on Earth. Yes, there are counterexamples, notably Mexico. So I would say to those who want such massive rollbacks on gun liberties, be sure you can explain those counterexamples and how they could assure us that America wouldn't become like that.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Why should the NRA fund security for Floriduh schools? I am sure the NRA would be happy to profit from training armed Floriduh school security folks just as they profit from training those that get CCW permits or CHLs.
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It's my understanding they actually do. Something called School Safe or something like that. Started after Sandy Hook. I don't remember the details.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
It is quite possible to greatly enhance school security without banning guns or getting rid of the NRA. Perhaps these kids should visit the courthouse, police station or Governor's mansion and observe what security their government is fully capable of providing for themselves.
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Those kids just witnessed their classmates being gunned down. I believe most of them would rather not see a gun for a while. Your suggestion is the complete opposite of what Shrinks would recommend for PTSD, which many of these students will suffer from in years to come. Why don't you go hug your gun, and let these kids heal.
 
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