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The Blame-Game: Please Stop

ttwtt78640 said:
Being angry is a great motivator but a clear definition of the problem to be addressed is still required to find a proper solution to it. I define the latest FL mass shooter problem as a "weird kid" that was visited by LEOs at least 39 times and was suspended/expelled from school by "officiials" yet had a "clean" NICS BGC result thus was able to legally arm himself and murder many folks trapped in a "gun free" zone with grossly inadequate security.

The FFL BGC law worked as intended - those with no criminal history pass them and are allowed to buy guns.

LEOs and school "officials" failed on multiple (40+) occasions to react to many "red flags". Each of these contacts was said to be "for cause" yet no action to prevent the next contact was performed until 17 victims were killed in pain view of many witnesses. Oddly, no charges were filed (as far as I know) for multiple counts of attempted murder or for having a gun in a "gun free zone".

Gun free zones are a joke unless they have adequate security measures to stop armed intruders - see courthouse compared to school secutity.

These kids are perfectly right to be pissed off and to feel completely let down by their government officials/agents that, naturally, claim to "feel their pain". My prediction is that not one of these government officials/agents that totally blew it on so many occasions will be fired - they are our heroes and need "more resources".
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Okay, but firing someone in Florida (preferably Rick Scott) isn't going to help the kids who remember Las Vegas or the Pulse, or have heard about Sandy Hook - or even remember it, as my teenagers do.
 
TurtleDude said:
there is a difference: we honestly support our rights and tire of opportunistic leftwing politicians who want to violate our rights so they can pander to low wattage hysterics and emotionally driven anti gun types. Gun haters ( I mean those who hate gun owners) , on the other hand, are almost always dishonest about their motivations. Some are better than others in pretending their jihad against our rights is for "public safety". others don't make much of an effort to hide the fact that their real goal is harassing people who don't buy into their leftwing agenda. Those are the posters who call gun owners "nutters" and so forth

you don't have any ire or hatred for armed assholes who murder innocents-you hate gun rights activists who don't hate Trump as you do
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And so far in this thread TD is the one calling names and assigning motives to people he doesn't even know. But the people on the right will only attack the "gun banners" to keep their little circle jerk friends on their side. Calamity is right, on this site the pro-2A people are useless to talk to, they simply cannot have an honest conversation. How many people just stay out of the gun forums because the people in there like TD and Vox are just dishonest and useless to talk too?
 
PleasantValley said:
That goes equally for a CENTRIST lean.
They play "Pin the label on the Centrist" 24/7 on here.
There was no lean for Conservative Democrat so i chose CENTRIST after getting my head bashed in for Conservative lean immediately on sight.
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There are so many variables nowadays with political leans, I’m also an old school democrat, now independent but slightly right in todays terms.

Personally, I don’t pay too much attention to the hard left or hard right other to make fun of them for amusement. Its also kind of a fun study on this board to pick out the fake leans, most are obvious but some are very clever.
 
Goshin said:
It's a lovely sentiment, but an exercise in futility.

In the aftermath of any situation like this, some will use it to further a political agenda. Those in opposition to that agenda will inevitably speak out against the first lot. Then it degenerates entirely into the blame-game as you say.

It is as predictable as the turning of the seasons, and just as inevitable.
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What is it that Rahm Emanuel said? Don't let a crisis go to waste? It is inevitable that people will try to capitalize on this shooting to further their "side" and in some cases, agenda.
I think it helps to not be reactive and polarized in our everyday lives.
 
tres borrachos said:
Okay, but firing someone in Florida (preferably Rick Scott) isn't going to help the kids who remember Las Vegas or the Pulse, or have heard about Sandy Hook - or even remember it, as my teenagers do.
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The answer to an ineffective government is not giving "more resources" to that ineffective government.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Gun free zones are a joke unless they have adequate security measures to stop armed intruders - see courthouse compared to school security.

These kids are perfectly right to be pissed off and to feel completely let down by their government officials
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That's all that needs to be said........totally inadequate protection for kids and an iron curtain of protection for judges.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
I see many calling for just that. Floriduh screwed up royally so let's march nationwide for more government power and control.
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Who screwed up in Las Vegas?

I don't think any of us expected the surviving students of Sandy Hook to organize protests right after that. The oldest kid in that school was about 11.
 
TurtleDude said:
stop the dishonesty. Its just plain prevarication. its stirring stuff up and contrarian silliness. And honest people blame the shooters, not those of us who support the constitution and candidates who support the second amendment
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Ironic post of the year nominee.
 
Truckstop said:
And so far in this thread TD is the one calling names and assigning motives to people he doesn't even know. But the people on the right will only attack the "gun banners" to keep their little circle jerk friends on their side. Calamity is right, on this site the pro-2A people are useless to talk to, they simply cannot have an honest conversation. How many people just stay out of the gun forums because the people in there like TD and Vox are just dishonest and useless to talk too?
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when a poster constantly whines about the NRA and gun nutters and not about violent criminals, does it take much effort to deduce his real hatred is towards gun owners and the NRA?
 
calamity said:
Ironic post of the year nominee.
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your anti gun mode is well known for posting hysterical anti gun nonsense that often contradicts your other posting versions. I am 100% consistent
 
tres borrachos said:
Who screwed up in Las Vegas?

I don't think any of us expected the surviving students of Sandy Hook to organize protests right after that. The oldest kid in that school was about 11.
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That is a good question - much secrecy seems to be demanded by the hotel and their "security" as well as a very slow LEO response. That is much like asking who screwed up in Dallas when Kenndy was shot. Sandy Hook was done by someone that never bought a gun and killed their own mother to get started.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
That is a good question - much secrecy seems to be demanded by the hotel and their "security" as well as a very slow LEO response. That is much like asking who screwed up in Dallas when Kenndy was shot. Sandy Hook was done by someone that never bought a gun and killed their own mother to get started.
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Not really (about Dallas). That was the venue. I was saying if we're going to say someone "screwed up" about Cruz, then we have to apply that same logic to every mass shooting, or none of them at all. It addresses Parkland. Not Sandy Hook. Not the church in Texas. Not Vegas (the incident, not the venue).

I know that Lanza's mother owned those guns. I brought it up because my kids remember it. Presumably many of these new protestors do as well. It isn't like Parkland was an outlier in their world.
 
woodsman said:
The problem with having an extreme view is you lose any credibility. In the past you have called me a gun zealot without even knowing my position on the topic. The funny bit is I don’t post in the gun control threads or have I given an opinion about it. For some the political lean is enough for the tag of gun zealot even if that lean is independent.

The same few will tag folks as Nazis, Islamaphobic, homophobic or any other tag that comes to mind including being unsympathetic to the deaths of children.
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The people I refer to as gun zealots are those who post dozens of attacking comments in any gun thread that even remotely suggests imposing new restrictions to gun sales, possession etc. They know who they are.
 
TurtleDude said:
there is a difference: we honestly support our rights and tire of opportunistic leftwing politicians who want to violate our rights so they can pander to low wattage hysterics and emotionally driven anti gun types. Gun haters ( I mean those who hate gun owners) , on the other hand, are almost always dishonest about their motivations. Some are better than others in pretending their jihad against our rights is for "public safety". others don't make much of an effort to hide the fact that their real goal is harassing people who don't buy into their leftwing agenda. Those are the posters who call gun owners "nutters" and so forth

you don't have any ire or hatred for armed assholes who murder innocents-you hate gun rights activists who don't hate Trump as you do
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TurtleDude said:
when a poster constantly whines about the NRA and gun nutters and not about violent criminals, does it take much effort to deduce his real hatred is towards gun owners and the NRA?
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I would deduce he hates the NRA and "gun nutters", that is not everyone that owns a gun. I own guns, and I am not a "gun nutter", also not a fan of the NRA. Why don't you make real arguments instead of strawmen, I know your conspirasy theory that anyone that wants to reduce school shooting is secretly just a leftist commie that wants to take your guns, they should give you your own safe place like a gun conspiracy forum so you stop stinking up all the real debates with garbage.
 
Truckstop said:
I would deduce he hates the NRA and "gun nutters", that is not everyone that owns a gun. I own guns, and I am not a "gun nutter", also not a fan of the NRA. Why don't you make real arguments instead of strawmen, I know your conspirasy theory that anyone that wants to reduce school shooting is secretly just a leftist commie that wants to take your guns, they should give you your own safe place like a gun conspiracy forum so you stop stinking up all the real debates with garbage.
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why are you trying to pretend that most of the gun bashers on this board aren't anti NRA and anti gun owners vs armed criminals
 
TurtleDude said:
your anti gun mode is well known for posting hysterical anti gun nonsense that often contradicts your other posting versions. I am 100% consistent
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Second ironic post of the year nominee.
 
TurtleDude said:
why are you trying to pretend that most of the gun bashers on this board aren't anti NRA and anti gun owners vs armed criminals
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Because I don't assign motives to people I don't know? This is the dumb **** we have to deal with. Some people are just looking for solutions and you can't help but call them names and imply they are on the criminals side.
 
tres borrachos said:
Not really (about Dallas). That was the venue. I was saying if we're going to say someone "screwed up" about Cruz, then we have to apply that same logic to every mass shooting, or none of them at all. It addresses Parkland. Not Sandy Hook. Not the church in Texas. Not Vegas (the incident, not the venue).

I know that Lanza's mother owned those guns. I brought it up because my kids remember it. Presumably many of these new protestors do as well. It isn't like Parkland was an outlier in their world.
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I disagree that all "mass shootings" have the same motive or target selection thus require the same preventive steps. In many ways the latest FL mass shooting is an outlier - the FL shooter chose to stop shooting early (did he have a body count or specific targeted person goal that was reached?), sneak out during the chaos and live. That difference gives us potential access to more and important facts - he can be questioned about what (if anything) would have stopped him.
 
Truckstop said:
Because I don't assign motives to people I don't know? This is the dumb **** we have to deal with. Some people are just looking for solutions and you can't help but call them names and imply they are on the criminals side.
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lets see if you cn understand this

someone claims we need to ban guns because of criminal misuse

yet almost all their posts whine about the NRA, gun advocates and gun owners

what do you think is their real motivation?

someone claims we need to pass laws to stop crime with guns

but everything they suggest only impacts legal gun owners

I think that is a fair suggestion their real goal is harassing honest gun owners, not trying to impact criminals
 
AtlantaAdonis said:
We're really going to play the "both sides share the blame" game?

One side is putting up solutions, the other side is complaining they'll have no "freedumb" and "liberteh" if they can't buy a Child Killer 6000 rifle that fires 400 bullets a minute and has cut funding for mental health.

Quit bending over backwards to try and be "balanced".
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Give it up. Da' Gov is correct.

But you totally missed the point.
 
TurtleDude said:
lets see if you cn understand this

someone claims we need to ban guns because of criminal misuse

yet almost all their posts whine about the NRA, gun advocates and gun owners

what do you think is their real motivation?

someone claims we need to pass laws to stop crime with guns

but everything they suggest only impacts legal gun owners

I think that is a fair suggestion their real goal is harassing honest gun owners, not trying to impact criminals
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I get that with you any change that doesn't put more guns on the street with less restrictions is harassing gun owners so I won't get into this with you. You are the extreme in the gun debate that makes no one want to have a real discussion. I'm done here you can resume your channeling of Trump and go back to name calling and strawmen burning.

Have a good day TD.
 
TurtleDude said:
another bit of frantic nonsense.
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Your typical gun posts are nothing but an all out assault on anyone even daring to suggest gun restrictions. You repeatedly hurl out terms like banneroid. So this sudden innocent act is pretentious as all hell.
 
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