Faith Is No Longer a Virtue in America

Oborosen said:

My problem is hypocritical, idiots.

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Plenty of them to go around. The only reason there are more Christians of that kind is because there are more Christians than any other religion on earth, especially in the US.

It is wrong to mock anyone for their religious beliefs, after all that is what the right to religious freedom is all about. Having said that though, faith is simply believing in something you have no evidence is true and does not denote virtue.

bluesmoke said:

Plenty of them to go around. The only reason there are more Christians of that kind is because there are more Christians than any other religion on earth, especially in the US.

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I would need citations for this "more Christians of that kind" claim.

Because going from memory I can already tell you that Christianity has grown out of its dark ages mentality, while others still stagnate in it. Like claiming to be a religion of peace and still supporting such systems of law that allow you to put homosexuals to death, for the mere crime of being a homosexual.

eohrnberger said:

Fair enough that his on field performance was ridiculed, but he was also ridiculed for his faith as well, as are many. Most unfortunate and uncivil in my view.

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Apparently even God finds that **** annoying....

Matthew 6:5 said:

And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites
are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and
in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men.
Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

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markjs said:

Apparently even God finds that **** annoying....

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So this is you speaking on God's behalf?
Didn't know you were his spokesman.

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eohrnberger said:

So this is you speaking on God's behalf?
Didn't know you were his spokesman.

Sent from my HTC6515LVW using Tapatalk

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Love how you leave out the bible passage you dislike. Way to WWJDIIWJ! (What would Jesus do if I were Jesus). That's pretty swell wally!

Oborosen said:

I would need citations for this "more Christians of that kind" claim.

Because going from memory I can already tell you that Christianity has grown out of its dark ages mentality, while others still stagnate in it. Like claiming to be a religion of peace and still supporting such systems of law that allow you to put homosexuals to death, for the mere crime of being a homosexual.

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You set the criteria of hypocrisy and idiocy, on which there are no statistics to cite. So, I gave you statistics of probability being that those criteria are equal among one religion of any large number as compared to another. Therefore, if there is more of one religion of any large number than another, that group would have more people whom are “hypocritical idiots”, percentages being the same.

I assume when you say “a religion of peace”, you mean the Muslim religion. There are Muslim countries which do punish people, even with death, for homosexual acts. There are also many Muslim countries which allow homosexual acts. Turkey, for instance, decriminalized homosexuality in 1858, then a 99.8% Muslim country. However, as long as they practice what they preach, and believe in such, that is not hypocrisy. And, I don’t think either is a characteristic of idiocy. Those are your criteria, hypocrisy and idiocy, not mine, on which my reply was based.

BTW, I don’t see “stagnation” in the Muslim religion, as you imply. It is becoming more open to LGBT than ever before, just as is the US. I gave the example of Turkey decriminalizing homosexuality in 1858. In the US, sexual activity between adults of the same sex wasn’t made legal, nationwide, until 2003.

markjs said:

Love how you leave out the bible passage you dislike. Way to WWJDIIWJ! (What would Jesus do if I were Jesus). That's pretty swell wally!

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Didn't even see that on the phone, but see it now on the home computer.
You are stating that an athlete on the field making a great play, honoring his religion is being a hypocrite, at least in your eyes, when I'm not sure there's evidence for that. A single gesture on the field of play doesn't a hypocrite make, I think.

No longer a virtue? It was never more than an aberration in an otherwise developed nation.

eohrnberger said:

Didn't even see that on the phone, but see it now on the home computer.
You are stating that an athlete on the field making a great play, honoring his religion is being a hypocrite, at least in your eyes, when I'm not sure there's evidence for that. A single gesture on the field of play doesn't a hypocrite make, I think.

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I'm saying I find making a huge show of it offensive and even Jesus said as much. **** Tebow and his in your face pious act. I've seen other players give their props, observe their faith a lot more humbly. Only god would be able to jusge, but **** that **** IMO.

markjs said:

I'm saying I find making a huge show of it offensive and even Jesus said as much. **** Tebow and his in your face pious act. I've seen other players give their props, observe their faith a lot more humbly. Only god would be able to jusge, but **** that **** IMO.

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So easily offended.
So easily taking rights and freedoms from others.
All because you are so easily offended.

A person's rights don't end and should not be infringed, just because you've decided that you are offended by something.

Sorry. It doesn't work that way.

But you have the right to continue to be offended, if you are so inclined.

bluesmoke said:

You set the criteria of hypocrisy and idiocy, on which there are no statistics to cite. So, I gave you statistics of probability being that those criteria are equal among one religion of any large number as compared to another. Therefore, if there is more of one religion of any large number than another, that group would have more people whom are “hypocritical idiots”, percentages being the same.

I assume when you say “a religion of peace”, you mean the Muslim religion. There are Muslim countries which do punish people, even with death, for homosexual acts. There are also many Muslim countries which allow homosexual acts. Turkey, for instance, decriminalized homosexuality in 1858, then a 99.8% Muslim country. However, as long as they practice what they preach, and believe in such, that is not hypocrisy. And, I don’t think either is a characteristic of idiocy. Those are your criteria, hypocrisy and idiocy, not mine, on which my reply was based.

BTW, I don’t see “stagnation” in the Muslim religion, as you imply. It is becoming more open to LGBT than ever before, just as is the US. I gave the example of Turkey decriminalizing homosexuality in 1858. In the US, sexual activity between adults of the same sex wasn’t made legal, nationwide, until 2003.

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I believe you are not entirely aware to the separation of church & state.
Seeing as I pointed that our with the religion of Islam, it is more hypocritical for one to say they are religion of peace and then be so outwardly hateful of other denominations. Seeing as I have even seen children shows, aired in places like Saudi Arabia. That advocate for the killing and subjugation of other non-Muslims. Not to mention that those shows are "state" funded. This also involves the fabled "Muslim Mickey Mouse" character. Who even gets derided by the co-host for speaking English.

While we do have churches hear in the states that don't want their congregation actively participating in homosexuality. You still don't have them spreading it around that, one should actively seek to harm them on a daily basis.

While I have seen hypocrisy in the Christian religion, it does not compare to the overwhelming amount I have personally seen while serving in the armed forces.

Also, Turkey has been back sliding for a while and even around Muslim controlled communities. Assaults are sill a prime threat.

Last I heard was an LGBT ban late last year. Though I haven't checked up on it since.

Oborosen said:

I believe you are not entirely aware to the separation of church & state.
Seeing as I pointed that our with the religion of Islam, it is more hypocritical for one to say they are religion of peace and then be so outwardly hateful of other denominations. Seeing as I have even seen children shows, aired in places like Saudi Arabia. That advocate for the killing and subjugation of other non-Muslims. Not to mention that those shows are "state" funded. This also involves the fabled "Muslim Mickey Mouse" character. Who even gets derided by the co-host for speaking English.

While we do have churches hear in the states that don't want their congregation actively participating in homosexuality. You still don't have them spreading it around that, one should actively seek to harm them on a daily basis.

While I have seen hypocrisy in the Christian religion, it does not compare to the overwhelming amount I have personally seen while serving in the armed forces.

Also, Turkey has been back sliding for a while and even around Muslim controlled communities. Assaults are sill a prime threat.

Last I heard was an LGBT ban late last year. Though I haven't checked up on it since.

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You tell me I don’t know what I’m talking about, which you cannot even give an example of, then say that you’re in the right because the other guy is more in the wrong. Quote me what tells you I’m “not entirely aware to the separation of church & state.”

You exemplify your own hypocrisy by saying some other religion does worse than your religion. That what your religion once did is no longer done, but the other religion is just as bad now. The pot calling the kettle black.

bluesmoke said:

You tell me I don’t know what I’m talking about, which you cannot even give an example of, then say that you’re in the right because the other guy is more in the wrong. Quote me what tells you I’m “not entirely aware to the separation of church & state.”

You exemplify your own hypocrisy by saying some other religion does worse than your religion. That what your religion once did is no longer done, but the other religion is just as bad now. The pot calling the kettle black.

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Rambling does not an answer make.

Try again.

Oborosen said:

Rambling does not an answer make.

Try again.

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If you can't provide evidence, like a quote, that proves your claim that I am “not entirely aware to the separation of church & state.”, then your claim is dismissed for lack of evidence. Your cute comments are nothing more than your way of avoiding the responsibility of backing up your own words and to excuse yourself from your failure to comprehend.

bluesmoke said:

If you can't provide evidence, like a quote, that proves your claim that I am “not entirely aware to the separation of church & state.”, then your claim is dismissed for lack of evidence. Your cute comments are nothing more than your way of avoiding the responsibility of backing up your own words and to excuse yourself from your failure to comprehend.

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Its because you even failed to answer my first request for a citation and just played it off with more rambling... or do I need to spell it out more?

You are dancing around a peg that is apparently only visible to you.

Or would you like to answer the question in earnest and actually get this on an intellectual track?

Oborosen said:

Its because you even failed to answer my first request for a citation and just played it off with more rambling... or do I need to spell it out more?

You are dancing around a peg that is apparently only visible to you.

Or would you like to answer the question in earnest and actually get this on an intellectual track?

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You made a statement complaining that “Christianity is an easy target at the current time.” I replied that the US is 75% Christian, implying majority rules, so what’s your problem? You then answered that your problem was “hypocritical, idiots.”, thus changing your complaint, your problem, from Christians being targeted to “hypocritical, idiots.” I then said, in so many words, the larger the religion, the more hypocrites and idiots there are, giving Christianity as the example, being the religion in context.

There are no statistics on hypocrites or idiots. You’re asking a question that can’t be supported by fact. However, one can reason that such is not defined by religion. Therefore, you can’t say that, for instance, the Christian religion has proportionately more or less hypocrites and idiots than any other religion. Only that if there are more people in one religion than another is the only reason a given religion would have more hypocrites and idiots than another.

I refuted your “targeting Christians” claim, for which you gave no supporting citation, unless you have stats that indicate otherwise. I’ve answered your request for a citation, to which, obvious before asking, there is no factual answer, but for reasoning. Now, please respond to my request that you give an example of your unsupported claim that I’m “not entirely aware to the separation of church & state.”

jdog said:

It is wrong to mock anyone for their religious beliefs, after all that is what the right to religious freedom is all about. Having said that though, faith is simply believing in something you have no evidence is true and does not denote virtue.

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I disagree with the first sentence. The reason for spiritual freedom is so that you can follow your own heart, not so that others have to patronize your stupid beliefs. The first amendment gives people the freedom of conscience and they too often squander it on freedom of fantasy. Fortunately, it also grants the freedom of speech, which permits those who disagree with their delusion to say so. It's vital to our future that we are comfortable doing that.

The most insidious tradition in our country is the false "politeness" that dictates that discussions of religion and politics are off limits. I can hardly think of two more important things for the people to discuss, as the former guides the latter in many people and when they get the god part wrong, they feel entitled to get everything else wrong too, even when it's obviously harmful. Besides, there is no more of a threat to all we hold dear than the idea that god belief should dictate our politics. That is what theocracy is, a system of government that abandons any loyalty to reality and punishes those who object.

I realize that religious discussions are very often contentious. That, however, is not the reason to stop having them, it is the reason to admit that there is something inherently false in them that demands to be treated as truth when it isn't. Democracy runs better of facts than on magical opinions. Therefore, allowing the religious to get away with making claims that are magical in nature is to allow fear of confronting their fantasies to scare us away from our higher principles of freedom and equality.

If the religious had won at this country's outset, the first amendment wouldn't exist. It would be the first commandment instead.

bluesmoke said:

I replied that the US is 75% Christian, implying majority rules

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It's not 75% christian unless you want to lump the American Taliban types, who would certainly create a theocracy here, given the chance, along with the mystical, spiritual, liberal type christians who believe the fundamentalists are criminally insane. I can't just lump them together.

Furthermore, majority does NOT rule when we're talking about religion. It rules with an iron fist elsewhere, where allowed to, but here, in the US, our government is supposed to be protected from the often violent and oppressive whims of sky worshipers. Unfortunately, too many people take their stupid version of the Jesus character into the voting booth with them but they have a right not to.

I find it ironic that anyone would imply that the state of our nation's religiosity should be determined by a head count. Democracy didn't really exist when the bible was being written and, secondly, the religious have a HORRIBLE track record for creating societies that function well. There is a long history of the majority of people believing is utterly retarded things. Our constitution protects us from the tyranny of the majority for that very reason.

eohrnberger said:

So easily offended.
So easily taking rights and freedoms from others.
All because you are so easily offended.

A person's rights don't end and should not be infringed, just because you've decided that you are offended by something.

Sorry. It doesn't work that way.

But you have the right to continue to be offended, if you are so inclined.

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Do you have the right to deceive? To sell a product that is only available after death? That's what the religious have done. They've made a mockery of democracy and of faith itself by using it as a bludgeon against rationalists and a peacock feather to show everyone how ****ing superior they are.

In many ways, their individual right to believe has compromised our collective right to understand. For that they should be ashamed.

D_NATURED said:

Do you have the right to deceive? To sell a product that is only available after death? That's what the religious have done. They've made a mockery of democracy and of faith itself by using it as a bludgeon against rationalists and a peacock feather to show everyone how ****ing superior they are.

In many ways, their individual right to believe has compromised our collective right to understand. For that they should be ashamed.

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There is where most religions make their mistake...Jesus said "You received free, give free." Matt. 10:8...

Elvira said:

There is where most religions make their mistake...Jesus said "You received free, give free." Matt. 10:8...

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What ever happened to "keep your dumb opinions to yourself" free? I tolerate the beliefs of others to the extent that they don't manifest as real world oppression for those who don't deserve it. I have listened many times to people telling me that to have no god is to be lost. They arrive on my weekend doorstep, often leading their dutiful children, who recite rehearsed lines for which they have no context or ability to question critically. That they squander their childhood going door to door as trained monkeys disgusts me. I feel for the children, born without consent and indoctrinated, methodically, by those in positions of authority, to their detriment, burdening them with evil and eternity and other useless concepts. What a cruel and ignorant perspective, even when they have the constitutional right to choose better. And they call ME lost.

D_NATURED said:

What ever happened to "keep your dumb opinions to yourself" free? I tolerate the beliefs of others to the extent that they don't manifest as real world oppression for those who don't deserve it. I have listened many times to people telling me that to have no god is to be lost. They arrive on my weekend doorstep, often leading their dutiful children, who recite rehearsed lines for which they have no context or ability to question critically. That they squander their childhood going door to door as trained monkeys disgusts me. I feel for the children, born without consent and indoctrinated, methodically, by those in positions of authority, to their detriment, burdening them with evil and eternity and other useless concepts. What a cruel and ignorant perspective, even when they have the constitutional right to choose better. And they call ME lost.

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We do it because we love people and want to share what we've learned about God and His free gift to mankind, Jesus Christ, as do our children...we want everyone to have the opportunity to gain everlasting life in a peaceful paradise earth...

D_NATURED said:

It's not 75% christian unless you want to lump the American Taliban types, who would certainly create a theocracy here, given the chance, along with the mystical, spiritual, liberal type christians who believe the fundamentalists are criminally insane. I can't just lump them together.

Furthermore, majority does NOT rule when we're talking about religion. It rules with an iron fist elsewhere, where allowed to, but here, in the US, our government is supposed to be protected from the often violent and oppressive whims of sky worshipers. Unfortunately, too many people take their stupid version of the Jesus character into the voting booth with them but they have a right not to.

I find it ironic that anyone would imply that the state of our nation's religiosity should be determined by a head count. Democracy didn't really exist when the bible was being written and, secondly, the religious have a HORRIBLE track record for creating societies that function well. There is a long history of the majority of people believing is utterly retarded things. Our constitution protects us from the tyranny of the majority for that very reason.

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Maybe you can’t “just lump them together”, but if someone believes they are Christian, regardless of sectarian and denominational differences, they are Christian. There are no exceptions, as you gave, whatever your definition may be.

When I say “majority rules”, I mean that, as a rule, if a religion has more people in it than other religions, it will also have more of what would be common characteristics, regardless of the religion. In the case I gave, hypocrisy and idiocy are characteristics common to all religions.

My post had nothing to do with religiosity, as being the degree to which personal beliefs are congruent with religious beliefs. As for that, and whatever else you said, go ahead with a separate post, relative to the OP, if you so wish.

Elvira said:

We do it because we love people and want to share what we've learned about God and His free gift to mankind, Jesus Christ, as do our children...we want everyone to have the opportunity to gain everlasting life in a peaceful paradise earth...

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As Jesus would say, Oye!