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Faith Is No Longer a Virtue in America

Why should religious faith be a virtue anyway? A choice to believe or disbelief in a deity is almost entirely irrelevant to someone's moral character.

I know for a fact that my moral character has improved significantly ever since, and yes...in part BECAUSE I walked away from organized religion.
I was spending an inordinate amount of time and devoting an incredible amount of spiritual energy trying to present myself as acceptable to flocks who couldn't be bothered to give me (or my wife) the time of day.

This was true when I was a young kid raised as a Catholic, when I found myself exploring Orthodox Judaism, Buddhism, and most definitely when I entered the Church of the Nazarene.

This last church welcomed my wife with open arms before I came into her life because she was helpless, destitute, saddled with a dying son and on the verge of near suicidal depression after her first husband walked out of their marriage after absorbing the gravity of their son's situation, and her disappearing ability to walk.
But instead of helping her find solutions to her problems, they told her that she should just accept the Lord's Will, and remain helpless, and give her son over to God by praying for him instead of searching for medical help, which cost money.

She wasn't in the VA yet, he wasn't yet enrolled in S-CHIP, and she couldn't even get a wheelchair except for the rusted out one previously used by her now deceased father.

The moment I entered into her life, they grew suspicious, sullen and finally, vicious when they learned that we were going to allow her son to enroll in S-CHIP by remaining unmarried, as our marriage would disqualify him. That's right, my minimum wage job making pallets would have meant we had too much money for our son to be in S-CHIP, and we'd end up burying him instead of saving his life.

The only thing they cared about was our sex life, which was none of their business, but they made it their business, and one Sunday morning the pastor launched into a fire and brimstone tirade from the pulpit about "fornicators" in their midst, while pointing directly at us.

That was the end of our membership in the Nazarene Church, we walked out in the middle of his furious magnum opus. I saluted him the best way I knew how, two middle fingers.
 
As Jesus would say, Oye!

Do you honestly think we do it because we enjoy being cussed at, having doors slammed in our faces, and even guns pulled on us or because we have nothing better to do on a Saturday morning? Think again...
 
Do you honestly think we do it because we enjoy being cussed at, having doors slammed in our faces, and even guns pulled on us or because we have nothing better to do on a Saturday morning? Think again...

No, only someone devoted to punishing others with their magical opinions could do that. Clearly, you don't give a **** about honoring the spiritual journeys of others and you can't take "no" for an answer. You have the truth and it's your job to beat everyone else over the head with it. I get it. It's the same argument that the terrorists make.

People can work very hard at and sacrifice much to something undeserving of their effort. If you really want a heaven on earth, start by being less convinced of your own righteousness. Your religion is not an excuse to annoy or judge others or to abuse your children. Those are sacrifices that no god should require of his followers.
 
No, only someone devoted to punishing others with their magical opinions could do that. Clearly, you don't give a **** about honoring the spiritual journeys of others and you can't take "no" for an answer. You have the truth and it's your job to beat everyone else over the head with it. I get it. It's the same argument that the terrorists make.

People can work very hard at and sacrifice much to something undeserving of their effort. If you really want a heaven on earth, start by being less convinced of your own righteousness. Your religion is not an excuse to annoy or judge others or to abuse your children. Those are sacrifices that no god should require of his followers.

lol...everyone has the option to decline or not...no one is forcing you to do anything so get off your soapbox...
 
lol...everyone has the option to decline or not...no one is forcing you to do anything so get off your soapbox...

Yes they are. They're forcing me to answer my door and explain to grown people that their "help" isn't helpful. They bring their children along because most people, myself included, have a harder time cursing children and slamming doors in their faces. In other words, they use them to shut down any debate that might ensue, because you can't debate a child or, rather, there is no satisfaction in taking it out on just another victim of the pious, entitled adult that brought them along.

My "soapbox" is my ****ing living room. I'm not writing from your doorstep. Theirs and your soapbox is my front porch, my mailbox, and our government. Do you see where your argument falls apart there? They have NO right to use my property as a place to solicit for any gods. How many doors must be slammed in your face before you understand? Religious canvassing is a nuisance to most people.
 
My religious faith in Trump isn't shaken. I am a virtuous alt-right winger!

Religious faith in Trump? Do you think he's divine? Uhhh, he's an immoral douche. What's so virtuous about NAZIs?
 
Religious faith in Trump? Do you think he's divine? Uhhh, he's an immoral douche. What's so virtuous about NAZIs?

I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic genius.

and President Trump will be the first Nazi to have a street named for him in Jerusalem(which they are currently doing). You are spot on as usual.
 
Yes they are. They're forcing me to answer my door and explain to grown people that their "help" isn't helpful. They bring their children along because most people, myself included, have a harder time cursing children and slamming doors in their faces. In other words, they use them to shut down any debate that might ensue, because you can't debate a child or, rather, there is no satisfaction in taking it out on just another victim of the pious, entitled adult that brought them along.

My "soapbox" is my ****ing living room. I'm not writing from your doorstep. Theirs and your soapbox is my front porch, my mailbox, and our government. Do you see where your argument falls apart there? They have NO right to use my property as a place to solicit for any gods. How many doors must be slammed in your face before you understand? Religious canvassing is a nuisance to most people.

Hate to break it to ya but door to door ministering is really very effective and thankfully the law of the land allows for it because we fought for that right through the proper channel...the court system...

Jesus and his disciples did it in his day and that is why we continue to do it today...He commanded it...

"Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.” Matt. 28:19,20

We do so and will continue to do so because...

“We must obey God as ruler rather than men." Acts 5:29
 
Behar’s sneer and the applause it received from the studio audience is a nice in-kind contribution to the Trump 2020 campaign.

For bonus points, who said this?



Anyone remember? Usual suspects maybe?

https://nypost.com/2018/02/17/faith-is-no-longer-a-virtue-in-america/

I always KNEW Oprah was mentally ill! Good to know somebody agrees with me!




I'm sure Joy was only talking about conservative Christians, though... Being concerned about equality and equal treatment like she is.
 
I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic genius.

and President Trump will be the first Nazi to have a street named for him in Jerusalem(which they are currently doing). You are spot on as usual.

There's a comma before the word "genius", Einstein. Yes, president Trump may well be the first American president to be so "honored" by an oppressive theocracy and have the right wing treat it like a victory. So what? What a joke.

Sorry I missed BitterPill's sarcasm, everyone. His words were dumb enough to sound like a legitimate conservative. I'll be more careful in the future.
 
Hate to break it to ya but door to door ministering is really very effective and thankfully the law of the land allows for it because we fought for that right through the proper channel...the court system...

Exactly, you think you have the right to be rude. By "effective" I assume you mean it tongue in cheek.

Jesus and his disciples did it in his day and that is why we continue to do it today...He commanded it...

"Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.” Matt. 28:19,20

We do so and will continue to do so because...

“We must obey God as ruler rather than men." Acts 5:29

First of all, I don't remember Jesus going door to door to convert people. He did it by the crowd full. Sure, he'd come upon someone and heal them or be approached by someone and heal them, but I don't remember him going door to door.

Besides, do you believe that Christendom has succeeded in fulfilling that command? I don't. Have they successfully "taught" all nations of the world to observe ALL that he commands? Or, have they made disciples through violence, engaging in the timeless struggle against the Pagans first but Islam again and again. Let us start by admitting how little god cares about our suffering when he allows us to murder each other in his name. Maybe it's a game to Him, but it's real to we humans.

I refuse to indulge your naiveté when war is in question. You are not innocent bell ringers, you're propagandists for a morally debilitating human condition called faith that allows us to prophesize and fulfill a violent conclusion. Jihad and holy war are concepts so entrenched in faith that they are inseparable. Religion is empowered by misery.

The alternative is to take ownership of your own moral self. That requires thought, not faith, Elvira. Faith can be a great stress reducer in the moment but at the end of the day, someone has to physically pull the trigger. God is great at greasing that transaction.
 
Exactly, you think you have the right to be rude. By "effective" I assume you mean it tongue in cheek.



First of all, I don't remember Jesus going door to door to convert people. He did it by the crowd full. Sure, he'd come upon someone and heal them or be approached by someone and heal them, but I don't remember him going door to door.

Besides, do you believe that Christendom has succeeded in fulfilling that command? I don't. Have they successfully "taught" all nations of the world to observe ALL that he commands? Or, have they made disciples through violence, engaging in the timeless struggle against the Pagans first but Islam again and again. Let us start by admitting how little god cares about our suffering when he allows us to murder each other in his name. Maybe it's a game to Him, but it's real to we humans.

I refuse to indulge your naiveté when war is in question. You are not innocent bell ringers, you're propagandists for a morally debilitating human condition called faith that allows us to prophesize and fulfill a violent conclusion. Jihad and holy war are concepts so entrenched in faith that they are inseparable. Religion is empowered by misery.

The alternative is to take ownership of your own moral self. That requires thought, not faith, Elvira. Faith can be a great stress reducer in the moment but at the end of the day, someone has to physically pull the trigger. God is great at greasing that transaction.

“Into whatever city or village you enter, search out who in it is deserving, and stay there until you leave. When you enter the house, greet the household. If the house is deserving, let the peace you wish it come upon it; but if it is not deserving, let the peace from you return upon you. Wherever anyone does not receive you or listen to your words, on going out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet." Matt. 10:11-14

"And it came to pass afterward, that he went throughout every city and village, preaching and shewing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God: and the twelve were with him," Luke 8:1

"Then starting out, they went through the territory from village to village, declaring the good news..." Luke 9:6

"And every day in the temple and from house to house they continued without letup teaching and declaring the good news about the Christ, Jesus." Acts 5:42

"while I did not hold back from telling you any of the things that were profitable nor from teaching you publicly and from house to house." Acts 20:20
 
“Into whatever city or village you enter, search out who in it is deserving, and stay there until you leave. When you enter the house, greet the household. If the house is deserving, let the peace you wish it come upon it; but if it is not deserving, let the peace from you return upon you. Wherever anyone does not receive you or listen to your words, on going out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet." Matt. 10:11-14

"And it came to pass afterward, that he went throughout every city and village, preaching and shewing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God: and the twelve were with him," Luke 8:1

"Then starting out, they went through the territory from village to village, declaring the good news..." Luke 9:6

"And every day in the temple and from house to house they continued without letup teaching and declaring the good news about the Christ, Jesus." Acts 5:42

"while I did not hold back from telling you any of the things that were profitable nor from teaching you publicly and from house to house." Acts 20:20

I stand corrected, there is a tradition of rudeness.
 
You made a statement complaining that “Christianity is an easy target at the current time.” I replied that the US is 75% Christian, implying majority rules, so what’s your problem? You then answered that your problem was “hypocritical, idiots.”, thus changing your complaint, your problem, from Christians being targeted to “hypocritical, idiots.” I then said, in so many words, the larger the religion, the more hypocrites and idiots there are, giving Christianity as the example, being the religion in context.

There are no statistics on hypocrites or idiots. You’re asking a question that can’t be supported by fact. However, one can reason that such is not defined by religion. Therefore, you can’t say that, for instance, the Christian religion has proportionately more or less hypocrites and idiots than any other religion. Only that if there are more people in one religion than another is the only reason a given religion would have more hypocrites and idiots than another.

I refuted your “targeting Christians” claim, for which you gave no supporting citation, unless you have stats that indicate otherwise. I’ve answered your request for a citation, to which, obvious before asking, there is no factual answer, but for reasoning. Now, please respond to my request that you give an example of your unsupported claim that I’m “not entirely aware to the separation of church & state.”

Wow, I'm away all this time and you are still dancing... all this suspense was for nothing.
 
Wow, I'm away all this time and you are still dancing... all this suspense was for nothing.



I answered the question you said I did not answer before in “earnest” as you requested. I gave you facts and data as would be expected to get on “an intellectual track”, as you wanted. You make personal accusations you cannot show any proof of. All you can do is troll.
 
I like it when Mormons come to my door. Very nice people. One time I admitted to them that the only reason I answered the door was to see if it was someone with news of my cat - who was sort of lost. They immediately dropped their spiel and offered to look for him. Thats good evangelizing right there.
 
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TL;DR


"It’s one thing to talk to Jesus. It’s another thing when Jesus talks to you. That’s called mental illness, if I’m not correct . . . hearing voices.”

She's not wrong. She's merely pointing out that when one talks about literally hearing God talk to you, you're a bit off your rocker. Nothing to do with bashing religion.
 
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