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Faith Is No Longer a Virtue in America

Well, there is your own bias. You are forwarding the very false notion that you can have a reasoned exchange about something a person imagines inside their head with ZERO standard of evidence. Sam Harris said it best, religion is a conversation stopper, and you can see what all of the phony, religious "scholarship" in the middle east has gotten us. Nothing but centuries of war, exploitation and bloodshed.

So according to you, all conservatives, i.e. people who hold different opinions, are delusional bible thumpers.

Accurate? Who is tolerant of mental illness? Why should I indulge the fantasies of others just to be called "tolerant"? Are the religious tolerant of each other? No. That's a ridiculous thing to be upset about. Respect, especially intellectually, is earned.

and that spiritual belief is akin to mental illness

Wrong. It's bigoted when one faith disagrees with another simply because they are different. She wasn't offering her own fantasy as the alternative "truth", she was speaking the fact that when people hear voices, that can be a warning sign of delusion. Having no evidence of a god but plenty of evidence concerning schizophrenia, the "condescension" is warranted.

and that you agree with Behar that spiritual belief is akin to mental illness

Not very, but isn't liberal tolerance something that is constantly being complained about by the right?

Because I've seen yet so little of liberal tolerance, and far more liberal intolerance, such as you are exhibiting in this post of yours right here. The complaints are well founded in fact and exhibited behavior.

Certainly, though, you see the difference between being tolerant of innate qualities, like skin color, and being tolerant of choices, like faith. Can't you? Does that distinction need to be explained again and again before the right will admit that ideas, even religious ones, are not, and shouldn't be, protected against criticism.

Just as long as liberal beliefs are criticized, amirite? I mean that would be intolerable, wouldn't it?

No one is forcing you to believe in any religion, and no one is even asking you to participate if you don't want to.
Shouldn't you at least not belittle and mock those who have spiritual beliefs?

There are hundreds or thousands of different faiths, sects and spiritual opinions. All that tells me is that it's a popular human activity to participate in these various exercises of self-placation. In such a variable rich environment for any person to call their opinion truth, as the Christians do, is to make truth nothing more than a whim or a political change instituted at the point of a sword or the pull of a ballot switch.

I'm not tolerant of many faiths because they aren't tolerant of the facts we live by. I say **** those martyrs who think their god is more important than my lack of one. They are proud robots not moral beings.

Yes, yes. More of that famous liberal intolerance on full exhibition I see. :roll:

Cry for, protest for, demand, and even codify into law tolerance for the beliefs and behaviors you support, and be decidedly intolerant of any others.
Now I'd call that inconsistent in the least, and blatant hypocrisy in the extreme.
 
You know, I'm fine with other having differing opinions.

I prefer the well reasoned, fact based ones, delivered without condescension, belittlement or arrogance or personal insults. They can be very interesting in the back and forth exploring the position / opinion is a friendly way. From all experiences, there's a shortage of posts that manage to combine all those.

Seems that the left is far more challenged in putting those three things together in a single post, but there are others of the right that are also challenged in the same way.

As far as Behar is concerned, what would you call likening someone's religion to a mental illness? Friendly? Fair? Honest? Tolerant?

Frankly it's not any of these things, and it's bigoted, condescending and insulting.

Now, you can take the position that Christians deserve to be, and should be, treated condescendingly and insulted, but then, how tolerant would that be?

And not subtle, whatsoever. Joy further insulted Christians by attempting to sell the vicious wise crack as a joke. As a comedian, she should know the difference.
 
And not subtle, whatsoever. Joy further insulted Christians by attempting to sell the vicious wise crack as a joke. As a comedian, she should know the difference.

Behar is playing to her audience (or at least whom she believes is her audience), the extreme left, as do most Celebutards in Hollyweird.

You see, it's pretty clear that all those in 'fly over country' aren't worth being concerned about. Just as long as you are popular with the other leftist's in the liberal / progressive echo chamber the media long been.
 
And not subtle, whatsoever. Joy further insulted Christians by attempting to sell the vicious wise crack as a joke. As a comedian, she should know the difference.

She should know what a joke is, since she is one herself.
 
So according to you, all conservatives, i.e. people who hold different opinions, are delusional bible thumpers.

Wow, that's not even remotely what I wrote. Can you be a bible thumper and NOT be delusional, though? You bring up an interesting point.

and that spiritual belief is akin to mental illness

If it quacks like a duck, it's a duck. My point is, the outward antics of the fundamentalist religious are often indistinguishable from mental illness. It certainly blurs the lines at many points.

and that you agree with Behar that spiritual belief is akin to mental illness

That's not what she said either but way to be paranoid needlessly. The thing about spiritual belief is that it needn't be any different from other beliefs. While they are trapped in the believer's head, they are harmless to others. Unfortunately, with spiritual beliefs, the believers feel authorized by their grandiose imaginings to subjugate and harm others. If spirituality stopped at the belief stage, it would not be as bad.

Because I've seen yet so little of liberal tolerance, and far more liberal intolerance, such as you are exhibiting in this post of yours right here. The complaints are well founded in fact and exhibited behavior.

Yes, liberals are intolerant of intolerance. We don't like when people use a tradition of magical thinking to create contemporary moral or intellectual stagnation or, worse, to excuse violence and misogyny. Your martyrdom is wasted on me. You and every person with a sky daddy are not victims except of your own imaginations. Look around the world at the most religious places. There you will find a history of murder, slavery and institutionalized child molestation. Truly, god can forgive anything and often has to.

Just as long as liberal beliefs are criticized, amirite? I mean that would be intolerable, wouldn't it?

Dude, I fully tolerate any rational criticism you have of "liberal" beliefs. Just don't use ****ing magic to explain your own position or you will have declared yourself incapable of a rational discussion to start with. My question still stands, though. Do you or do you not see any distinction of being intolerant of innate qualities, for religious reasons, and being intolerant of bad choices, for secular reasons? It's really very simple for most people to understand.

No one is forcing you to believe in any religion, and no one is even asking you to participate if you don't want to.
Shouldn't you at least not belittle and mock those who have spiritual beliefs?

They don't try to force me now that I'm 6'2" and 200 pounds and have lost my natural, childish credulity. When I was a child, though, they certainly tried to force Jesus down my throat at every turn. You know they do that, though, and you still write down the lie that they don't. Clearly, you are so friendly to magical faith that you won't even admit it when they hurt people right in front of you. I think you may be incapable of looking objectively at this issue.

Yes, yes. More of that famous liberal intolerance on full exhibition I see. :roll:

If my words are an example of "famous liberal intolerance" then yours are an example of famous religious butthurt. Oh, what a great planet this would be if the religious acted upon their intolerance rhetorically, like liberals do, rather than with war and oppression. I think you're jealous because the history of liberal intolerance is not the blood soaked abomination that religious history is.


Cry for, protest for, demand, and even codify into law tolerance for the beliefs and behaviors you support, and be decidedly intolerant of any others.
Now I'd call that inconsistent in the least, and blatant hypocrisy in the extreme.

It must be a rule that the religious hear voices in their heads. You don't understand a damn thing I write and choose to interpret my words in the most asinine way. The American god is one of dozens or hundreds, is it not? You are the hypocrite when you refuse to admit the fact that the god you excuse your idiocy with is not somehow special or different than the Muslim or Hindu versions.

And, if I seem intolerant of you, it's really that I'm intolerant of your weakness and ignorance. There is no excuse in heaven or elsewhere for squandering your earthly intellect with dreams of an afterlife. Yet, millions of Americans swaddle themselves in a hateful fantasy and use their fears as a moral credential that is every bit as inconsistent and hypocritical as you claim me to be.
 
Behar’s sneer and the applause it received from the studio audience is a nice in-kind contribution to the Trump 2020 campaign.

For bonus points, who said this?



Anyone remember? Usual suspects maybe?

https://nypost.com/2018/02/17/faith-is-no-longer-a-virtue-in-america/

It’s worth noting that her comment was in reference to a similar one from a self-professed Christian; ?The View? star Joy Behar mocks Mike Pence?s Christian faith: ?That?s called mental illness? | Fox News That suggests to me that this is less about outsiders attacking faith or Christianity and more about arguments between different believers over the correct way to believe (which is far from a new thing).

Correct this wasn't an attack on religion or Christianity at all. This an attack on an individual, Mike Pence, IMO who is in need of mocking because HE and HIS views are NOT a virtue nor should they ever be in this great country.
 
A liberal moron insults beliefs that she don't share.

Stop the presses! This is Earth shattering! :roll:

The fact of the matter is that liberals insult and denigrate anyone and everyone that doesn't hold the same belief's, positions or opinions than they, and even insult other parts of the country where their belief's, positions or opinions are preeminent. (Ever hear of 'fly over country' ?)

It's little more than typical liberal behavior, what everyone who's paying attention have come to expect from liberals.
And yet, the liberals can't fathom why they receive no respect? :lamo
How stupid and insular they.

While I agree with you about liberals, this story is about one liberal idiot attacking the Vice-President, just because he is the Republican Vice-President.

I doubt she would have said anything like this if there was a Democrat in the White House right now.
 
While I agree with you about liberals, this story is about one liberal idiot attacking the Vice-President, just because he is the Republican Vice-President.

I doubt she would have said anything like this if there was a Democrat in the White House right now.

I agree with you. If there were a Democrat is the White House, there's be little more than praise for them, as we have witnessed during Obama's term.

The attack, more a mockery I would think, was aimed at the Vice-President, but it also mocked anyone of faith for just having and practicing their faith.

The liberals decry any intolerance against any of their favored people, causes or beliefs, but are intolerant of anyone and anything that doesn't fall into those categories of theirs. Is it possible to be any more bigoted or hypocritical?
 
And many of the Conservatie Republicans are "phony Christians". Intolerable of those that do not agree with them.
 
Wow, that's not even remotely what I wrote. Can you be a bible thumper and NOT be delusional, though? You bring up an interesting point.



If it quacks like a duck, it's a duck. My point is, the outward antics of the fundamentalist religious are often indistinguishable from mental illness. It certainly blurs the lines at many points.



That's not what she said either but way to be paranoid needlessly. The thing about spiritual belief is that it needn't be any different from other beliefs. While they are trapped in the believer's head, they are harmless to others. Unfortunately, with spiritual beliefs, the believers feel authorized by their grandiose imaginings to subjugate and harm others. If spirituality stopped at the belief stage, it would not be as bad.



Yes, liberals are intolerant of intolerance. We don't like when people use a tradition of magical thinking to create contemporary moral or intellectual stagnation or, worse, to excuse violence and misogyny. Your martyrdom is wasted on me. You and every person with a sky daddy are not victims except of your own imaginations. Look around the world at the most religious places. There you will find a history of murder, slavery and institutionalized child molestation. Truly, god can forgive anything and often has to.



Dude, I fully tolerate any rational criticism you have of "liberal" beliefs. Just don't use ****ing magic to explain your own position or you will have declared yourself incapable of a rational discussion to start with. My question still stands, though. Do you or do you not see any distinction of being intolerant of innate qualities, for religious reasons, and being intolerant of bad choices, for secular reasons? It's really very simple for most people to understand.



They don't try to force me now that I'm 6'2" and 200 pounds and have lost my natural, childish credulity. When I was a child, though, they certainly tried to force Jesus down my throat at every turn. You know they do that, though, and you still write down the lie that they don't. Clearly, you are so friendly to magical faith that you won't even admit it when they hurt people right in front of you. I think you may be incapable of looking objectively at this issue.



If my words are an example of "famous liberal intolerance" then yours are an example of famous religious butthurt. Oh, what a great planet this would be if the religious acted upon their intolerance rhetorically, like liberals do, rather than with war and oppression. I think you're jealous because the history of liberal intolerance is not the blood soaked abomination that religious history is.




It must be a rule that the religious hear voices in their heads. You don't understand a damn thing I write and choose to interpret my words in the most asinine way. The American god is one of dozens or hundreds, is it not? You are the hypocrite when you refuse to admit the fact that the god you excuse your idiocy with is not somehow special or different than the Muslim or Hindu versions.

And, if I seem intolerant of you, it's really that I'm intolerant of your weakness and ignorance. There is no excuse in heaven or elsewhere for squandering your earthly intellect with dreams of an afterlife. Yet, millions of Americans swaddle themselves in a hateful fantasy and use their fears as a moral credential that is every bit as inconsistent and hypocritical as you claim me to be.

"Yes, liberals are intolerant of intolerance. "

Then you should practice what you preach, and cease the intolerance against people peacefully practicing their faith.

I'm sorry for you that you didn't have a good turn on this earlier in life. Maybe you can get over it, or at least see your way clear, but perhaps not. I dunno. I suppose all I can do is wish you well.

But surely you can accept that not every religious person behaves or treats others as you apparently were treated. Then that'd be painting with a broad brush.
 
Behar’s sneer and the applause it received from the studio audience is a nice in-kind contribution to the Trump 2020 campaign.
Clapping like trained seals over moronic comments is nothing new or sophisticated.

For bonus points, who said this?
 
Well, she may have a point here.

Unless he means metaphorically, if he think God speaks to him, he is freakin' nuts. Or he's trying to con someone.

Or he believes in God. Do you think all religious people are freaking nuts? I'm pretty sure most believe their god communicates with them.
 
Or he believes in God. Do you think all religious people are freaking nuts? I'm pretty sure most believe their god communicates with them.
In metaphorical terms, that's fine.

In literal, I would find it extremely problematic.

But most problematic to me, would be if someone justifies their actions or arguments, by claiming God speaks to them, whether literally or metaphorically. I find that one totally bull****.

Context matters.
 
In metaphorical terms, that's fine.

In literal, I would find it extremely problematic.
what dolt on this planet would take it literally?

But most problematic to me, would be if someone justifies their actions or arguments, by claiming God speaks to them, whether literally or metaphorically. I find that one totally bull****.

Context matters.
Just because you find it problematic doesn't mean it is a problem. Maybe you should be a little more open minded.

There is no context you pretty muy g said every religious person is problematic.
 
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what dolt on this planet would take it literally?

Just because you find it problematic doesn't mean it is a problem. Maybe you should be a little more open minded.

There is no context you pretty muy g said every religious person is problematic.
You think far too highly of yourself and your beliefs here, along with your ability to impress them upon others.
 
You think far too highly of yourself and your beliefs here, along with your ability to impress them upon others.

You said people that think God talks to them either literally ,whatever that f****** means, or metaphorically (by which I assume you mean through ways which aren't literal) that it's problematic. That sums up every single religious belief that has a deity or deities.

I didn't mention my beliefs. Stop trying to make it personal.

I don't know who's ask you pulled this garbage about impressing them upon others but did it hurt?
 
LOL I bet you can't even see the hypocrisy of your diatribe insulting and belittling liberals .....because they don't "hold the same belief's, positions or opinions".

What what he said was it's typical left wing behavior to suggest people are mentally ill because they don't agree with them.

To think that someone who is religious is deranged is prejudice. You can justify your Prejudice anyway you choose but it's still prejudiced.

Saying something is typical of someone of a certain political Orthodoxy is not prejudice it's a fact.

This poster did not say anything bigoted against somebody he did not suggest they were mentally ill because of opinions they hold.

So it isn't the same thing.
 
What what he said was it's typical left wing behavior to suggest people are mentally ill because they don't agree with them.

To think that someone who is religious is deranged is prejudice. You can justify your Prejudice anyway you choose but it's still prejudiced.

Saying something is typical of someone of a certain political Orthodoxy is not prejudice it's a fact.

This poster did not say anything bigoted against somebody he did not suggest they were mentally ill because of opinions they hold.

So it isn't the same thing.

I think it is quite clear that SOME religious people are not right in the head and the same goes for quite a few on the right. People who think God talks to them and those that wantonly believe lies because they confirm their convictions are pretty looney. Living in a false reality is not really sane IMO. The mind can do some pretty extreme things to protect itself.
 
Why should religious faith be a virtue anyway? A choice to believe or disbelief in a deity is almost entirely irrelevant to someone's moral character.

Morality with no visible means of support. Taking a free ride on the JudeoChristian tradition.
 
I think it is quite clear that SOME religious people are not right in the head
But only religious people?


People who think God talks to them and those that wantonly believe lies because they confirm their convictions are pretty looney.
Opinion noted.

Living in a false reality is not really sane IMO.
And you can prove it false?

The mind can do some pretty extreme things to protect itself.
Ooooookaaaaay

:shrug:
 
Morality with no visible means of support. Taking a free ride on the JudeoChristian tradition.

Some people like to fool themselves into believing ideas such as mercy and forgiveness came from strictly secular rationalism.

Easy too claim that when Christianity was the entire foundation of all western morality for 1500 years. But no this nonsense we invented three decades ago isn't based on that at all...

Lol
 
“If you talk to God, you are praying; If God talks to you, you have schizophrenia.”

Thomas Szasz was a famously rightwing psychiatrist and psychoanalyst. Not a lefty idea.

Faith, in America, virtue or not, has long been an aberration in the developed world. The incidence and intrusion into public life is probably higher than any other non-theocracy.
 
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