“We call BS”, says Florida shooting student survivor to Trump and GOP

Trippy Trekker · Feb 18, 2018

ksu_aviator said:
That's fine, but you'd be safer in North Dakota with a similar population density and MORE guns.

Instead of trying to encroach on the people's right to own and use guns, I can picture the impending avalanche of migration from gun-crazy Parkland FL to gun-calm and safe North Dakota.

Thank you for illustrating your point statistically. It helps place the 'Gun Issue' in perspective!

Mason66 · Feb 18, 2018

holbritter said:
Well, he is the President, so the outcry to do something would be to him.

It is always interesting when people donj't know how the US government works.

What could the President do? Congress makes the laws.

Why isn't this person angry at Obama for letting this crazy person slip through the cracks?

Gaugingcatenate · Feb 18, 2018

ataraxia said:
That we has a democracy or told her too far in one direction. The consequences are unacceptable and unsustainable right now.

Gonna have to be a bit more specific than that to be at all persuasive.

ataraxia · Feb 18, 2018

HowardBThiname said:
Not as easy nor as effective as you might initially assume..

The U.S. Should Emulate Israel's Gun Culture ? Tablet Magazine

That aside, Israel has a very different dynamic than the US. Are you saying that you'd like mandatory drafting into the military for virtually every high school graduate, male or female? Because, that's what Israel has.

I know some far right-wingers that would support that mandatory draft, and that would be necessary to emulate Israel's gun laws, because being in the military, or a reservist, is a big part of their gun ownership rules.

So, if you want Israel's gun laws -- be ready to enact a mandatory draft into the military.

You are correct that in Israel active-duty personnel can carry. However once they leave, they need to register. I would be OK with that here as well. I am not sure what that has anything to do with mandatory drafting.

ataraxia · Feb 18, 2018

Gaugingcatenate said:
Gonna have to be a bit more specific than that to be at all persuasive.

I would be open to discussion. But to me personally, licensing and registration of all firearms sales would be an important first step. Regular mental health screening for all registered owners , perhaps every 6 to 7 years, would be another. If you don’t like the federal government, it can be done through the state government, kind a like the voting registration, or, to make it even further removed if you like, it can be through the city or county government.

Also, bump stocks and semi automatic military style assault rifles will have to go the same way as the full autos did in the 1980s. Semi automatic handguns would be fine.

ataraxia · Feb 18, 2018

Mason66 said:
It is always interesting when people donj't know how the US government works.

What could the President do? Congress makes the laws.

Why isn't this person angry at Obama for letting this crazy person slip through the cracks?

It was Reagan that spearheaded the ban on sales of full auto weapons in the 1980s. God bless him for that. Trump last year, in contrast, spearheaded the lift on some of the Obama era regulations.

haymarket · Feb 18, 2018

ataraxia said:
I would be open to discussion. But to me personally, licensing and registration of all firearms sales would be an important first step. Regular mental health screening for all registered owners , perhaps every 6 to 7 years, would be another. If you don’t like the federal government, it can be done through the state government, kind a like the voting registration, or, to make it even further removed if you like, it can be through the city or county government.

Also, bump stocks and semi automatic military style assault rifles will have to go the same way as the full autos did in the 1980s.

All are excellent ideas. I would add thorough background checks for ALL firearm purchases and transfers.

And all do not stand the proverbial snow ball in hells chance of passage as long as a tiny minority are able to control Congress and state legislatures.
We are allowing the tail to wag the dog and thus we get the ass end of the problem in our collective faces.

Fishking · Feb 18, 2018

ataraxia said:
Wow! This young student is so passionate, so clear, so articulate, so eloquent, it is hard to believe she is only a high school student. She perfectly sums up the frustration with such corrupt, selfish nonsense that is passing for government these days. Bravo!

Passion and emotion are pretty bad premises for policy.

haymarket · Feb 18, 2018

ataraxia said:
Yes. But even if she didn’t, would that be a reason to then just kick up our feet and do nothing?

We will not "do nothing". Here is what we will do

1- decry the evil in some people
2- pray for the dead
3- extend our sympathies
4- remind the nation that this is NOT the time to discuss gun laws or policies
5- flirt with some very minor tweaks like 'yeah - maybe we need to look at these bump stocks and maybe do something about it"
6- and then fail to act on #5
7- remind the nation that a gun is an object and cannot do anything without a person behind it
8- remind the nation that 99% of gun owners do not participate in murders or gun crimes
9- attack those who advocate things like universal background checks as unAmerican and against the US Constitution
10- write all this down and put it in a convenient place so you can bring it out again in a few weeks when we repeat the same thing all over again

So we are not "doing nothing".

Trippy Trekker · Feb 18, 2018

Zalatix said:
Well said, look at all the mass murders committed with knives

like

wait

I know they happen somewhere, right?

Gaugingcatenate said:
Genghis Khan, by chance recognize the name? No guns back then and he is estimated to have killed around 40 million. Next question?

I can remember in my childhood, the mid-1960s, looking at a Life Magazine (hardback) with illustrated photos. One of the photos taken during the Boxer Rebellion shows a smallish man holding a sword standing in a field of severed heads.

I also believe more victims in the Rwandan Massacre died from machete attack than any other category of weapon.

Still, given time to contemplate, I would prefer to elude a knife or machete wielding assailant than one with a loaded AR15.

I side with Zalatix!

Trippy Trekker · Feb 18, 2018

HowardBThiname said:
Sweet kid. I admire her audacity to stand up for what she believes. She does not, however, fully understand the enormity of the issue.

But, good kid.

HowardBThiname said:
Life and death situations are overwhelming, to be sure, but rather than allowing the person to view a situation in a comprehensive way -- they actually create a very narrow focus.

She's a great kid, to be sure, but she's speaking strictly out of emotion right now. And, from that emotional set-point, she's unable to identify with the greater pros and cons of gun ownership.

Ah, she can ask a Military Recruiter on her high school campus to explain Gun and Military issues to her. Maybe still as young as age 17, if she wants to and the military accepts her, she can train to kill Enemy Combatants.

HowardBThiname · Feb 18, 2018

Trippy Trekker said:
Ah, she can ask a Military Recruiter on her high school campus to explain Gun and Military issues to her. Maybe still as young as age 17, if she wants to and the military accepts her, she can train to kill Enemy Combatants.

Rather, why not ask her if she would have preferred that one of the slain students, a bystander, parent or faculty member had been armed (and in the immediate vicinity), and was able to kill the shooter after he first fired. She seems like a nice kid, don't you think she would have preferred that the shooter died rather than the innocent victims?

Gaugingcatenate · Feb 18, 2018

ataraxia said:
I would be open to discussion. But to me personally, licensing and registration of all firearms sales would be an important first step. Regular mental health screening for all registered owners , perhaps every 6 to 7 years, would be another. If you don’t like the federal government, it can be done through the state government, kind a like the voting registration, or, to make it even further removed if you like, it can be through the city or county government.

Also, bump stocks and semi automatic military style assault rifles will have to go the same way as the full autos did in the 1980s. Semi automatic handguns would be fine.

Be that as it may We, in the gop, are in the majority in all aspects of national and state constituencies. Majority rules remember.

Gaugingcatenate · Feb 18, 2018

Trippy Trekker said:
I can remember in my childhood, the mid-1960s, looking at a Life Magazine (hardback) with illustrated photos. One of the photos taken during the Boxer Rebellion shows a smallish man holding a sword standing in a field of severed heads.

I also believe more victims in the Rwandan Massacre died from machete attack than any other category of weapon.

Still, given time to contemplate, I would prefer to elude a knife or machete wielding assailant than one with a loaded AR15.

I side with Zalatix!

Am not quite sure what the Rwandan immigration procedure entails but why not, giver a go man.

ataraxia · Feb 18, 2018

Gaugingcatenate said:
Be that as it may We, in the gop, are in the majority in all aspects of national and state constituencies. Majority rules remember.

Maybe so. But I think as the level of mayhem continues and even increases, many in that constituency too are going to realize this is unacceptably dysfunctional and no longer sustainable. Like this guy:

I’ve been a proponent of the 2nd amendment my entire life. Until the events of last night. I cannot express how wrong I was. We actually have members of our crew with [Concealed Handgun Licenses], and legal firearms on the bus,’’ Keeter wrote. ‘‘They were useless.’’ He continued:

‘‘We couldn’t touch them for fear police might think we were part of the massacre and shoot us. A small group (or one man) laid waste to a city with dedicated, fearless police officers desperately trying to help, because of access to an insane amount of fire power.

Enough is enough.

‘‘Writing my parents and the love of my life a goodbye last night and a living will because I felt like I wasn’t going to live through the night was enough for me to realize that this is completely and totally out of hand. These rounds were just powerful enough that my crew guys just standing in close proximity of a victim shot by this f-ing coward received shrapnel wounds.

‘‘We need gun control RIGHT. NOW. My biggest regret is that I stubbornly didn’t realize it until my brothers on the road and myself were threatened by it. We are unbelievably fortunate to not be among the number of victims killed or seriously wounded by this maniac.’’
-Caleb Keeter, after the Vegas shooting

Trippy Trekker · Feb 18, 2018

HowardBThiname said:
Rather, why not ask her if she would have preferred that one of the slain students, a bystander, parent or faculty member had been armed (and in the immediate vicinity), and was able to kill the shooter after he first fired. She seems like a nice kid, don't you think she would have preferred that the shooter died rather than the innocent victims?

Absolutely, she preferred a non-incident without victims. I don't have reasonable access to the girl to ask her anything.

In the real world, military recruiters on public high school campuses happens as a matter of routine. We can all wish for a nearby armed hero timely disarming a predator to prevent the death of victims.

Trippy Trekker · Feb 18, 2018

Gaugingcatenate said:
Am not quite sure what the Rwandan immigration procedure entails but why not, giver a go man.

Okay, if I survive the Armed Uprising against the Government's Military, immigrating to Rwanda may seem like a viable option.

I thought you moved to Panama a few years ago? American culture has undergone rabid and rapid change.

Gaugingcatenate · Feb 18, 2018

ataraxia said:
Maybe so. But I think as the level of mayhem continues and even increases, many in that constituency too are going to realize this is unacceptably dysfunctional and no longer sustainable. Like this guy:

I understand emotional appeal. Problem is emotions don't equate with good policy. Maybe gettng short term supposed security while giving up rights along with long term very real security is not a trade I volunteer. Not willing to make that mistake.

Gaugingcatenate · Feb 18, 2018

Trippy Trekker said:
Okay, if I survive the Armed Uprising against the Government's Military, immigrating to Rwanda may seem like a viable option.

I thought you moved to Panama a few years ago? American culture has undergone rabid and rapid change.

The Obama decay took root that bad did it? Glad to awatch from afar bit then.

goldkam · Feb 18, 2018

ksu_aviator said:
http://theipti.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/covariance.pdf

The research would suggest other wise. There are multiple factors to be sure. But population density is the most prevalent.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A valuable source, however this is just one element of research that has been conducted. There are thousands of sources that would suggest otherwise and we could go back and forth sharing them.
This is not a Harvard academic problem or a analytical problem, this is primarily a common sense problem. That individuals are blinded by patriotism and privilege and fail to see the primary issue is in fact guns.

Mistakes are being made and not learnt from.

Trippy Trekker · Feb 18, 2018

Gaugingcatenate said:
The Obama decay took root that bad did it? Glad to awatch from afar bit then.

Many grins for your prior prognostication! After all, at least in DP Land, you did predict Trump would win the General Election. In Panama, every $2 bet on Trump returned $5. You would have let us know if you placed a bet. I hope you stake at least $100 on the next General Election. If you disclose your choice, I might bet right along with you.

Moderate Right · Feb 18, 2018

ataraxia said:
Wow! This young student is so passionate, so clear, so articulate, so eloquent, it is hard to believe she is only a high school student. She perfectly sums up the frustration with such corrupt, selfish nonsense that is passing for government these days. Bravo!

I do have to say though that they claim they want to transcend politics and work on using ideas from both sides and then go on to bust everyone on the right and the NRA. That makes them less credible and ultimately will give them less chance of success. If they really want to use ideas from both sides (a worthwhile objective) then they shouldn't be blasting one of the sides. If they're going to do that then they should quit talking about listening to both sides for solutions and just demand solutions from one side.

Gaugingcatenate · Feb 18, 2018

Trippy Trekker said:
Many grins for your prior prognostication! After all, at least in DP Land, you did predict Trump would win the General Election. In Panama, every $2 bet on Trump returned $5. You would have let us know if you placed a bet. I hope you stake at least $100 on the next General Election. If you disclose your choice, I might bet right along with you.

Sweeeeeet.

Yeah, as an aside I won my first political bet wherein the other side actually paid up. Netherlander lib leaner ( way diff in Europe ) bet me $100 that Trump would be out of office by 12-31-2017.

My former social studies dept head, very liberal but generally a decent guy though he stiffed me here, wagered $1000 smackers that Bill Clinton was not impeached. I knew he was meaning thrown out of office, but he was a history and civics teacher by god, he should very well have known the difference. Hell, I expected my students to know that.

But yeah, $100 richer by trump. :mrgreen:

PS no other bets made...I usually feel a little uncomfortablle accepting the money for some deep seated reason. I will let you know if I get any other contrary to the grainers