• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Worries about Trump's legitimacy resurface with Russia indictment

On the forum. You need only use the search function.

So Russians have been posing as Americans for decades? That what is in the Meuller indictment.
 
So Russians have been posing as Americans for decades? That what is in the Meuller indictment.
There are many ways to interfere with elections.
 
Come out with your hands up would help a lot thx for asking cause we over here aren't going to surrender to the fact. Nor do we over here support it. Nor do we apologize for it nor do we dismiss it or try to play it down as inevitable and unstoppable. The best defense is a good offense or maybe youse haven't heard that or just don't like it.

How do you propose to stop the purchasing of ads by people?

Prior restraint?
 
I remember talking to my uncle during the Clinton Administration and venting as you seem to that Clinton was destroying the country and my uncle asked if I hadn't been conscious of the FACT that the country was doing pretty well.

In what way is Trump hurting the country?
I don't have all day as I have a bazillion outdoor projects I'm working on. I'll give you are few ways Trump is hurting the country as starters.

National security

Foreign affairs

National debt

Increase in racism

Betsy Devos :roll:

Healthcare

Reduction of opportunities and assistance for poor people

Reduction of opportunities and assistance for disabled people (including education, see above Betsy DeVos)

Lack of real commitment to VA

Abysmal condition of infrastruce

The continued attacks on the court system, the intelligence agencies, the FBI and the 4th Estate



Wrong.

The people who are suffering wish he wasn't around.



Show me.



Sure, whatever that means.



Are you talking about since Bush plunged the nation into unwinable wars for undefined reasons and as a result damn near destroyed the economy from which Obama rescued the nation from the brink of a depression? Because that is what happened in the previous 16 years.

By the way we remain in Afghanistan and in the region. Our defense budget has doubled in 16 years and Trump wants to increase it even more.

And no, partisan, I did not vote for Obama.

You will please recall that over the last 16 years, we had two Presidents. They happen to have been the two worst presidents in the history of the Republic. Bush was another victim of our failed and failing intelligence apparatus. Obama seems to have been using them.

Both of these failures were victims of pre-held biases that guided every action regardless of the situations in which they were used.

Since Trump was elected, there are more Americans working on more jobs that pay more than at any point in the last 16 years. In most BLS employment categories, longer.

Oh, and our workers are now burdened by lower tax rates individually than at any point in the last 16 years.

During January 2018, however, as predicted, the US Government collected MORE money. In fact, the US ran a surplus in January. This was the first month under the Trump tax plan. The US generated more taxes paid in January than any January in history.

You must have heard about this on CNN or NBC or CBS or ABC or the NYT. Maybe not...

Stock markets and the the resulting impacts to retirement and pension funds are way up and way good. DJI up about 7000 right now since election day. That run up is about 28% in about 1% of the index's existence.

Talking about retirement and pemsion funds, now bond yields are also rising which, again, helps ALL retirees in the plans regardless of any personal demographics.

In what way has Trump hurt the various decades old problems you cite? These gigantic aids to the regular guys only help those problems.

In what ways does increased personal income, lower tax rates, higher tax revenues to the FEDS and more money for those who are retired hurt ANYBODY?

You raved off a laundry list of bad things that would be bad if they were actually happening and yet they are not happening. They already happened. Trump talked about them during the campaign and the idiots who preceded him built those problems.

Where is your references to support your laundry list?

Links?

When you look at facts, things actually happening in the actual world, you see that Trump is pretty much a Golden Boy. Why do you want to destroy the guy that's helping everyone to personally achieve the things they want to achieve in their personal lives?

https://www.cnsnews.com/news/articl...d-taxes-first-month-under-tax-cut-run-surplus
 
Last edited:
That has always been the assumption of those of you who cannot understand or stomach how your 90% certainty of a Hillary victory could be upset without some kind of malfeasance.

Pretty much because you still don't seem to get that Presidents are not elected by the popular vote.

Trump is not the first President to win while losing the popular vote and as long as the Electoral College exists, he probably won't be the last.

He played the system, campaigning for electoral votes. Hillary played your heartstrings and depended on Progressive-Left mania in New York City and Coastal California while ignoring the despair in the Rust Belt States. Get over it.

Did you know if you remove the two biggest states from the vote count. Example state #1 is very liberal California and state #2 is very conservative Texas, Trump wins the popular vote and the electoral vote. Hmm one could conclude that the only way to win a popular vote is to win CA but that doesnt mean you win the presidency. We dont want CA choosing the presidency for everyone else.
 
He's a popular vote-loser whose surprising and razor-thin upset turns out to have been engineered by a shadow campaign apparatus (dedicated, fully staffed, and very well-funded) operated by a foreign adversary, an adversary he has curiously protected from the sanctions Congress passed in response to their interference.

The phrase, "Trump didn't win, Clinton lost it," comes to mind every time I see one of these threads. Laziness on Hillary's part, she let Trump out work and out campaign here. From 1 Sep through 8 Nov 2016 Trump made 116 campaign visits/stops to Hillary's 71 and some of those 71 were fund raisers in deep blue California and New York. The three deciding states, Wisconsin, Trump 5 visits/stop to Hillary's none, zero. Michigan, Trump six, Hillary one. Pennsylvania was closer, Trump 8 Hillary 5. Even in electoral college rich Florida she let Trump out work and out campaign her 13 to 8. Hillary also took several days off the campaign while Trump took none. How many other Democratic candidates would have let their opponent out work and out campaign them as much as Hillary did.

Strategy, Hillary tried to run up the score. She wanted to receive more electoral votes than Obama did. She pumped in assets and money trying to win Arizona, Georgia and Utah. She ignored her own backyard, the so called blue wall states. Trump concentrated on the electoral college, just 270. Name me another Democratic candidates that would ignore the blue wall states. Inept campaign strategy.

You had the jury rigged Democratic primaries in Hillary's favor by the DNC and state Democratic party leaders. That made Sanders supporters angry. Voters that normally were Hillary's if it hadn't been for the jury rigging. Who knows how many Sanders supporters stayed home, I know my grand daughter did who was an avid Sanders supporter. In the end Sanders supporters who voted did go to Hillary by a 75-12 margin over Trump with 12% voting third party. Compare that to the Democratic base, 89-8 Clinton over Trump with 3% voting third party. Jury rigging the primaries in Hillary's favor probably cost her the election, not the Russians.

Bernie Sanders Voters Helped Trump Win and Here's Proof

You also had Trump all over the media, calling into every morning TV and radio talk show. even the one's against him. Hillary basically hid from the media. You seen it posted here on this site, the counting between her press conferences. What was it, 200 days plus. She only went on programs that were 100% behind her like the View.

You also seen an energy gap, enthusiasm for the candidates. Trump supporters were so enthusiastic about him, showed so much energy for him they were willing to go to the four corners of the earth. Hillary supporters, many more of those than for Trump, but they were more ho hum, lacked energy, enthusiasm. Perhaps they thought they had the election in the bag. Most folks did. I did for one.

These are just a couple of reasons, glaring reasons but just a couple way too numerous to list all of them not write a book. I think a friend of mine summed up the election of 2016 very aptly. He stated, "We opted for the devil we didn't know. Trump was a businessman, a non-politician, no one knew how he would govern. A complete unknown. He beat the devil we knew. Everyone knew Hillary, knew exactly how she would govern. Nothing unknown about her."

The devil no one knew vs. the devil everyone knew. That is exactly how most Americans felt about the 2016 election. The Democrats managed to nominate someone who was a disliked as much as Trump was by the electorate as a whole and more disliked by independents. Trump won the independent vote 46-42 over Clinton and thus the election with 12% of independents voting third party. The reason Trump won independents, 57% of independents disliked him, viewed him negatively. But 70% of independents had that negative, unfavorable view of Hillary. Independents may not have a say on whom the two parties nominate, but they can and do decide who wins in November, the general and this time they went for Trump. It wasn't like the Democrats weren't warned. Back in February of 2016 a poll showed that 56% of all Americans wanted the Democrats to nominate someone other than Hillary. Naturally, the democrats ignored America as a whole. Now we have whom we have.

We have whom we have because of the decisions and choices made by the two major parties in 2016. Not the Russians. Any other democrat wins in a cakewalk.
 




Last fall before the Presidential election, a large number of media outlets began reporting on allegations arising from emails released by Wikileaks that appeared to come from John Podesta, who served Presidents Clinton and Obama and was the chairman of Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign.

Dozens of those stories and articles raised or discussed theories that some of Podesta’s emails contained code words for human trafficking and/or pedophilia. Stories also included allegations connecting members of the Democratic Party with a number of restaurants involved with a child sex ring. These stories were cited and discussed in social media and went viral on the Internet.

One of the persons mentioned in many of the stories in the media was a Washington, D.C. restaurant owner named James Alefantis, and his pizza restaurant Comet Ping Pong.......

 


........On December 4, 2016, Edgar Maddison Welch, a 28-year-old man from Salisbury, North Carolina, fired three shots in the restaurant with an AR-15-style rifle, striking walls, a desk, and a door.[42][43][44] Welch later told police that he had planned to "self-investigate" the conspiracy theory.[45] Welch saw himself as the potential hero of the story—a rescuer of children.[46] He surrendered after officers surrounded the restaurant and was arrested without incident.[47] No one was injured.[48].......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pizzagate_conspiracy_theory

tumblr_ot9a8vJp001qinrtgo1_500.jpg


 
Jury rigging the primaries in Hillary's favor probably cost her the election, not the Russians.

In other words, a narrative created by the Russians, in partnership with Assange (and eagerly picked up by the Trump campaign on the trail, as the poster below you helpfully reminds us), as part of their well-funded attempt to boost Bernie and Trump is what cost Clinton the election?

If you believe the Russian hack of the DNC was the single decisive event of the 2016 election, you seem to have botched your conclusion about the importance of the Russian pro-Trump campaign. You're even parroting their preferred narrative a year and a half later! And folks pretend to wonder if that campaign was influential.
 
In other words, a narrative created by the Russians, in partnership with Assange (and eagerly picked up by the Trump campaign on the trail, as the poster below you helpfully reminds us), as part of their well-funded attempt to boost Bernie and Trump is what cost Clinton the election?

If you believe the Russian hack of the DNC was the single decisive event of the 2016 election, you seem to have botched your conclusion about the importance of the Russian pro-Trump campaign. You're even parroting their preferred narrative a year and a half later! And folks pretend to wonder if that campaign was influential.

You seem to forget Clinton's laziness, her very inept campaign, her and the DNC making Sanders supporters very angry. You excuse all of that. You excuse that in the beginning most Americans were begging the Democrats to nominate someone else which the democrats said up yours. You're also forgetting that in August of 2016 President Obama knew about the Russians and decided to take no action, to keep mum on the subject, do nothing. If after Trump's win the Russians became all important as an excuse for Hillary's laziness and all important to our electoral system, why wasn't it important in August of 2016?

I'm just sick and tired of all the excuses. Hillary's loss can be laid directly at her feet. At choices and decisions made in 2016. From nominating the only candidate that could possibly lose to Trump to Obama's decision to totally ignore the Russians. If the Democrats ignored it since august of 2016 why is it all important today? seems to me if it was important today, it should have been important back in August of 2016.
 
You seem to forget Clinton's laziness, her very inept campaign, her and the DNC making Sanders supporters very angry.

I'm just going by what you said. According to you, she lost because of the illegal Russian hack and the narrative they and Assange spun out of it. In other words, Russian intervention swung the election.
 
-0wg9hhWPIwu-LVr5b75FZuRD-Jm94Q5zblQq-je3MeHVywRWbZP77Xrij1fYJ89fsSVo-TMwDC-f5tYOzg4NA2dn6xQw7WX-VUDBaM4f9EdjrqAUE58O22cS8btIuPQsL3R7g5I


:coffeepap
 
Last edited:
I'm just going by what you said. According to you, she lost because of the illegal Russian hack and the narrative they and Assange spun out of it. In other words, Russian intervention swung the election.

Interesting on how a Clinton supporter can twist things and exonerate her from her very inept campaign. Not surprising though. Just a word of advise, if I were a democrat, I wouldn't go choosing my candidate four years in advance.
 
Interesting on how a Clinton supporter can twist things and exonerate her from her very inept campaign. Not surprising though. Just a word of advise, if I were a democrat, I wouldn't go choosing my candidate four years in advance.

? Are you walking back your statement that the Russian hacks were determinative? If not, we seem to be in agreement on the significance of the Russian campaign so I’m not sure what you’re pushing back on.
 
There are many ways to interfere with elections.

No kidding! But your claim that this has been going on for decades is just your opinion. There was no Twitter or Facebook decades ago. This level of infiltration has never been done before and it is frightening and should be to everyone.
 

Not disagree with... but "evil". and a "police state"?

It's rather obvious you'll go to anything length and say literally anything to protect your bubble.
 
Not disagree with... but "evil". and a "police state"?

It's rather obvious you'll go to anything length and say literally anything to protect your bubble.

Hillary entered into a conspiracy to set up, use and then destroy her personal server that was off site and contained sensitive materials in violation of Federal Law and DOS Regulation.

She was never prosecuted or even seriously investigated. The FBI co-conspirators changed the wording in Comey's presentation to avoid the need to prosecute.

Others are in jail for doing far less than Hillary did.

A police state is revealed not merely by those that ARE attacked by the police. It is also revealed by those that are not attacked.

We used to be a nation of laws. Not so much anymore. THAT, to me, is evil.
 
Hillary entered into a conspiracy to set up, use and then destroy her personal server that was off site and contained sensitive materials in violation of Federal Law and DOS Regulation.

She was never prosecuted or even seriously investigated. The FBI co-conspirators changed the wording in Comey's presentation to avoid the need to prosecute.

Others are in jail for doing far less than Hillary did.

A police state is revealed not merely by those that ARE attacked by the police. It is also revealed by those that are not attacked.

We used to be a nation of laws. Not so much anymore. THAT, to me, is evil.

Apparently we are just a nation of conspiracy theories anymore.
 
Apparently we are just a nation of conspiracy theories anymore.

What is the conspiracy you are citing? Are you asserting there was no private server?

Are you asserting that ANYTHING from that post is not accurate?
 
? Are you walking back your statement that the Russian hacks were determinative? If not, we seem to be in agreement on the significance of the Russian campaign so I’m not sure what you’re pushing back on.

Simple, I'm saying the reason Clinton lost was because of Hillary Clinton herself with her laziness letting Trump both out campaign her and out work her. I provided the figures before and will do so again. I think her inept campaign strategy and her laziness gave us Donald Trump regardless of how you twist things to take attention away from the obvious. The fact is the Democrats had this election in the bag, the Republicans tried to give the Democrats the white house by nominating a very disliked Donald Trump by America as a whole on a silver platter. The Democrats threw that silver platter back into the Republicans face by nominating someone who was as disliked by America as a whole as Trump was. Even more disliked by independents by a 70-57 unfavorable margin.

The Russians had nothing to do with that. Laziness, inept campaign strategy, being more than happy to let an opponent out work and out campaign her, failure to inspire enthusiasm, hiding from the media, along with numerous other things. Yet it is all the Russians fault she lost. I think Hillary and the Democrats just need to look into a mirror to find out why she lost.

Any other democratic candidate, alive or dead would have won easily. At least they wouldn't let themselves be out worked and out campaigned by such a huge difference, they would have instilled a bit of energy into the campaign, I doubt any other democrat would have hid from the media except on very friendly shows like the view. Clinton blew it.
 
Simple, I'm saying the reason Clinton lost was because of Hillary Clinton herself with her laziness letting Trump both out campaign her and out work her. I provided the figures before and will do so again.

That's different than what you said above. Above you said it was the Russian hack and the resulting apathy of Bernie voters (which of course was a key part of the Russian campaign for Trump) that swung the election.
 
No kidding! But your claim that this has been going on for decades is just your opinion. There was no Twitter or Facebook decades ago. This level of infiltration has never been done before and it is frightening and should be to everyone.
That's fine, but I don't know what it has to do with point being made, which was to counter the claim that we believed Russia did not meddle in the election at all.
 
That's fine, but I don't know what it has to do with point being made, which was to counter the claim that we believed Russia did not meddle in the election at all.

Four months ago Trump said he believed they did not.

Trump says he believes Putin's election meddling denials

Da Nang, Vietnam (CNN)President Donald Trump suggested on Saturday he's done confronting Russian President Vladimir Putin over his country's election meddling since it's insulting to the Russian leader.

Trump said he took Putin at his word that Russia did not seek to interfere in the US presidential election last year, despite a finding from US intelligence agencies that it did. The fraught relations between the two leaders was underscored anew when Putin's spokesman initially said election meddling did not come up when they spoke, even though Trump said it did.
"He said he didn't meddle. He said he didn't meddle. I asked him again. You can only ask so many times," Trump told reporters aboard Air Force One as he flew from Da Nang to Hanoi in Vietnam. Trump spoke to Putin three times on the sidelines of summit here, where the Russia meddling issue arose.

"Every time he sees me, he says, 'I didn't do that,' " Trump said. "And I believe, I really believe, that when he tells me that, he means it."

"I think he is very insulted by it," Trump added.
 
Back
Top Bottom