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Shooter Warning, Why The FBI's Hands Were Tied

Rob Larrikin said:
So much of what National Socialist Hitler said. Much of what Fidel Castro said. Much of what Mao said, and certainly much of what Stalin said. That's what socialists are good at - hate speech.
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I forgot to add stupid speech to my list. Thanks for reminding me.
 
code1211 said:
Um...

Their job.

They've spent a little less than two years investigating a crime that was never committed by people who never committed it.

In the mean time, they get multiple warnings on the same nut job and can't find the guy who is actually named for them.

What's wrong with this picture?
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Lol...they just handed down 13 indictments showing us all that there is more than just blue smoke.
 
calamity said:
I forgot to add stupid speech to my list. Thanks for reminding me.
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I know. For people with such power it's amazing how stupid they were. Well, smart and stupid at the same time. They were very cunning and brilliant, and at the same time quite stupid. That's the thing about socialists. They are an enigma. How can such cunning tyrants be so stupid and wrong at the same time?
 
calamity said:
Lol...they just handed down 13 indictments showing us all that there is more than just blue smoke.
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You are looking at one thing and seeing something else.

The Russians seem to have acted independently creating mischief and you think that this shows something it does not show.

What did Rosenstein say the indictment revealed about the collusion you seem to think this demonstrates?
 
code1211 said:
You are looking at one thing and seeing something else.

The Russians seem to have acted independently creating mischief and you think that this shows something it does not show.

What did Rosenstein say the indictment revealed about the collusion you seem to think this demonstrates?
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lol...where do you think Mueller got all their real names, paper trail, emails and a dozen other exact details? lol....your level of denial is amazing.
 
calamity said:
lol...where do you think Mueller got all their real names, paper trail, emails and a dozen other exact details? lol....your level of denial is amazing.
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I'm only denying your unsupported fantasies. Everything you site demonstrates that the Russians did something and that Trump was not involved.

Please link to the comments from Rosenstein that demonstrate the validity your fantasies of the coluuuuusion that exists in Leftworld but never happened in the real world.
 
code1211 said:
I'm only denying your unsupported fantasies. Everything you site demonstrates that the Russians did something and that Trump was not involved.

Please link to the comments from Rosenstein that demonstrate the validity your fantasies of the coluuuuusion that exists in Leftworld but never happened in the real world.
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:lamo
 
Perotista said:
A couple of facts, then a question. From 1900-1969 an era when there were no gun control laws, no gun registration and no records kept whatsoever on who owned or didn't own a gun. There were exactly 28 mass shootings in that 70 year time period. 17 of those shooting occurred in the 1930's and 40's. The Al Capone gangster era.

From 1970 through today there has been roughly 150 mass shooting which includes 42 in the 1980's decade alone. Who knows how many will happen in the present decade of 2010's. Not quite 50 years yet. This is the era of gun control and registration. Whereas around 50% of all households owned a gun or more in the early 1970's, today that figure is down to 36%.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-now-at-a-30-year-low/?utm_term=.088545f50b8e

Yet, the shooting continue and continue to increase. Apparently it isn't guns which are causing the shootings. If guns were, wouldn't there have been the most mass shootings during the decade when 50% of households owned guns instead of 36%. If gun control worked, wouldn't there be a lot less shootings in this 50 year era than in the previous no gun control at all era?

So where does this leave us? In my mind, a sickness has entered our society. Our society departed the normal path we were onto some other path. What causes these mass shootings isn't guns. They can't think, feel or even fire themselves. It is the human element that does that. A living, breathing being.

So, are we willing to delve deep into society to discover the root cause or causes why since the 1970's these shooting have become more or less common place? Do we really want to know the reasons or the causes? Or do we just want to put a bandaid over the cause by passing more gun control laws? Even if we eliminated all guns totally in this country, the root cause would still be there. Still be present in our society. perhaps instead of shootings, bombings will take place or setting buildings on fire or machete attacks or something akin to it.

Is anyone out there willing to find the reasons and causes that make these folks go on these shooting rampages or doesn't anyone care? Let's just paper over whatever made or caused our society veer off its path it was on in the first era onto the one it is on today. Certainly more gun control laws will eliminate whatever the cause is. Eliminate the cause about as much as an aspirin alleviates the fever caused by a brain tumor. The fever may be gone, but the tumor continues to grow and continues on the same path it has been in.
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The real issue is the difference between how mental illness was handled prior to the 1970s and now. T^he vast majority of these mass shootings involve mentally ill individuals. Prior to the 1970s, the chronically mentally ill were institutionalized or heavily monitored. Today they are mostly just medicated and sent home with the hope that they will be motivated to take their meds. There is also much more mental illness today as their is much more illicit drug abuse. The Parkland shooter claims to hear voices in his head. That is one of the symptoms experience by many chronic drug addicts. I would also be helpful if the police and the mental health professionals would follow the existing gun law requiring them to report the profiles of the mentally ill to the national database used for background checks.
 
ObamacareFail said:
The real issue is the difference between how mental illness was handled prior to the 1970s and now. T^he vast majority of these mass shootings involve mentally ill individuals. Prior to the 1970s, the chronically mentally ill were institutionalized or heavily monitored. Today they are mostly just medicated and sent home with the hope that they will be motivated to take their meds. There is also much more mental illness today as their is much more illicit drug abuse. The Parkland shooter claims to hear voices in his head. That is one of the symptoms experience by many chronic drug addicts. I would also be helpful if the police and the mental health professionals would follow the existing gun law requiring them to report the profiles of the mentally ill to the national database used for background checks.
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I agree. I remember back with the mentally ill, I think sometime in the 1970's. There was a push to do away with the mental hospitals and a lot of them was just turned out on the street. Now I'm not sure that has anything to do with kids killing other kids to just kill other kids. But it did signal a change, a huge change in how the mentally ill were treated and taken care of.

What you say makes sense to me. Now it is all about drugs, medication. Probably very little oversight.
 
Perotista said:
A couple of facts, then a question. From 1900-1969 an era when there were no gun control laws, no gun registration and no records kept whatsoever on who owned or didn't own a gun. There were exactly 28 mass shootings in that 70 year time period. 17 of those shooting occurred in the 1930's and 40's. The Al Capone gangster era.
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National Firearms Act Of 1934

The NFA was originally enacted in 1934. Similar to the current NFA, the original Act imposed a tax on the making and transfer of firearms defined by the Act, as well as a special (occupational) tax on persons and entities engaged in the business of importing, manufacturing, and dealing in NFA firearms. The law also required the registration of all NFA firearms with the Secretary of the Treasury. Firearms subject to the 1934 Act included shotguns and rifles having barrels less than 18 inches in length, certain firearms described as “any other weapons,” machineguns, and firearm mufflers and silencers.

As structured in 1934, the NFA imposed a duty on persons transferring NFA firearms, as well as mere possessors of unregistered firearms, to register them with the Secretary of the Treasury. If the possessor of an unregistered firearm applied to register the firearm as required by the NFA, the Treasury Department could supply information to State authorities about the registrant’s possession of the firearm. State authorities could then use the information to prosecute the person whose possession violated State laws. For these reasons, the Supreme Court in 1968 held in the Haynes case that a person prosecuted for possessing an unregistered NFA firearm had a valid defense to the prosecution — the registration requirement imposed on the possessor of an unregistered firearm violated the possessor’s privilege from self-incrimination under the Fifth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. The Haynes decision made the 1934 Act virtually unenforceable.

Title II of the Gun Control Act (GCA) of 1968

Title II amended the NFA to cure the constitutional flaw pointed out in Haynes. First, the requirement for possessors of unregistered firearms to register was removed.​

Prohibition-Era Gang Violence Spurred Congress To Pass First Gun Law

The guns covered by this law are almost never used in crime.

"You rarely hear any discussion of fully automatic weapons or machine guns," Follman says. "They're just really not part of the conversation in the contemporary picture. They don't turn up in mass shootings."

Follman curates a database of mass shootings in America, going back 34 years, to 1982. It covers a total of 81 mass shootings. Out of those 81 shootings, none is known to have involved a machine gun or fully automatic weapon.
 
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Perotista said:
I agree. I remember back with the mentally ill, I think sometime in the 1970's. There was a push to do away with the mental hospitals and a lot of them was just turned out on the street. Now I'm not sure that has anything to do with kids killing other kids to just kill other kids. But it did signal a change, a huge change in how the mentally ill were treated and taken care of.

What you say makes sense to me. Now it is all about drugs, medication. Probably very little oversight.
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Reagan.


U01: Ronald Reagan and the Federal Deinstitutionalization of Mentally Ill Patients
February 8, 2017, Elaine Carmen Guerra

"The lack of institutional care of critically mentally ill patients in the United States has become a complicated problem that has resulted in victimization, homelessness, and incarceration of these individuals. In 1967, the State of California was one of the first states to deinstitutionalize mentally ill patients when it passed the Lanterman-Petris-Short Act (Lyons, 1984). This act had a profoundly negative impact on the lives of the mentally ill.

So, why would the Reagan Administration choose to end “the federal government’s role in providing services to the mentally ill” (Pan, 2013)?

Ronald Reagan, the 40th president of the United States, is well known for his fiscal policies that stimulated economic growth, cut inflation and pulled America out of a recession (Cannon, 2017). What Reagan is not readily known for is the long term effect of a law he repealed that essentially deinstitutionalized mentally ill patients at the federal level (Roberts, 2013). While some of his fiscal policies had a positive effect on the U.S. economy during the 1980s, his decision to deinstitutionalize mentally ill patients had a much more deleterious effect on these patients, their communities, and the agencies that were left to contend with these individuals’ mental health issues (Honberg, 2015)."

U01: Ronald Reagan and the Federal Deinstitutionalization of Mentally Ill Patients | PSY 533: Ethics and Leadership (Wheeler)
 
Perotista said:
A couple of facts, then a question. From 1900-1969 an era when there were no gun control laws, no gun registration and no records kept whatsoever on who owned or didn't own a gun. There were exactly 28 mass shootings in that 70 year time period. 17 of those shooting occurred in the 1930's and 40's. The Al Capone gangster era.

From 1970 through today there has been roughly 150 mass shooting which includes 42 in the 1980's decade alone. Who knows how many will happen in the present decade of 2010's. Not quite 50 years yet. This is the era of gun control and registration. Whereas around 50% of all households owned a gun or more in the early 1970's, today that figure is down to 36%.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-now-at-a-30-year-low/?utm_term=.088545f50b8e

Yet, the shooting continue and continue to increase. Apparently it isn't guns which are causing the shootings. If guns were, wouldn't there have been the most mass shootings during the decade when 50% of households owned guns instead of 36%. If gun control worked, wouldn't there be a lot less shootings in this 50 year era than in the previous no gun control at all era?

So where does this leave us? In my mind, a sickness has entered our society. Our society departed the normal path we were onto some other path. What causes these mass shootings isn't guns. They can't think, feel or even fire themselves. It is the human element that does that. A living, breathing being.

So, are we willing to delve deep into society to discover the root cause or causes why since the 1970's these shooting have become more or less common place? Do we really want to know the reasons or the causes? Or do we just want to put a bandaid over the cause by passing more gun control laws? Even if we eliminated all guns totally in this country, the root cause would still be there. Still be present in our society. perhaps instead of shootings, bombings will take place or setting buildings on fire or machete attacks or something akin to it.

Is anyone out there willing to find the reasons and causes that make these folks go on these shooting rampages or doesn't anyone care? Let's just paper over whatever made or caused our society veer off its path it was on in the first era onto the one it is on today. Certainly more gun control laws will eliminate whatever the cause is. Eliminate the cause about as much as an aspirin alleviates the fever caused by a brain tumor. The fever may be gone, but the tumor continues to grow and continues on the same path it has been in.
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I know liberals get angry that Trump doesn't run to the nearest camera and scream "GUNS!!" like Obama did, but imo, he's doing the right thing and driving the conversation where it needs to go, much deeper, into personal responsibility.
Our culture is sick. Very sick. We are raising kids with a lack of real connection to people because they are attached to screens. Violence in our media and video games desensitizes them to violence.
I often wonder how these shooters can continue pulling the trigger when they see actual human beings' bodies torn apart, guts, brains splattered. How do they not faint or vomit? How can they just walk away like nothing happened?
It defies humanity.
Social media is turning out to be a real scourge, imo. We're raising a generation of narcissists who think they're all that and a bag of chips, and omg, they are so needy! OMG! What to do if they don't have "followers" and get "likes"?
FB, Instagram, snapchat and especially those hidden social media apps put our kids at risk.
Parents need to wake up and realize that much of what's happening starts at home.
 
Zalatix said:
Advocating violence, calling for violence and threatening violence should get you thrown in prison. To hell with free speech and to hell with those who think those behaviors should be covered by free speech.

Get out the vote until we can force this straight down the right wingers' throats and destroy their distorted concept of "free speech" and then laugh in their faces while they cry about the end of the world, then vote to make it illegal for Republicans to own jobs, then vote to deport them all.

Did I fail to offend some right winger out there?
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Well geez, I don't get how a sane person doesn't understand simple common sense where "rights" are concerned.
It's impossible to protect speech that, simply put, advocates the death of anyone who believes in equal rights for everyone.

White nationalists have already proven what they are down through the decades. The most famous white nationalist of them all killed millions for simply being a different religion or race than white.
Klansmen have already proven what THEY are, down through the decades. They have lynched, bombed, burned, beaten and killed hundreds of thousands for being a different race, possibly even a million. We don't actually know the total number, because they made sure that there weren't records of all they killed in the days of slavery, which has values that they admire, even if they claim that they are NOT advocating slavery specifically.

Fascists seek to curtail the rights of people who are not fascist. They openly state that liberalism should be illegal, they claim that it is unconstitutional, which is baloney of course.
Communists seek similar restrictions, they share a common methodology with fascists where the restriction of rights are concerned.
Anarchists seek the removal of all government whatsoever, which invariably leads to an environment where the biggest and strongest tyrant winds up BEING "the government" by virtue of the fact that said tyrant governs the rights and access of others.

How does one protect and enshrine the rights of free speech for groups that advocate the INTOLERANCE of the rights of others, or even their right to live, to exist? Sorry, it's impossible, it cannot be done.
If there is one principle in the Constitution which was never put down in black and white, but which can be rationally inferred by anyone who reads it, it would be this:

"Your rights END where mine BEGIN." And vice versa.
And because of that, anyone who believes that ALL rights are 100% UNLIMITED...is proving that they are an IDIOT, or at the very least, insincere in their understanding of the meaning of constitutional rights.
 
Acadia said:
I know liberals get angry that Trump doesn't run to the nearest camera and scream "GUNS!!" like Obama did, but imo, he's doing the right thing and driving the conversation where it needs to go, much deeper, into personal responsibility.
Our culture is sick. Very sick. We are raising kids with a lack of real connection to people because they are attached to screens. Violence in our media and video games desensitizes them to violence.
I often wonder how these shooters can continue pulling the trigger when they see actual human beings' bodies torn apart, guts, brains splattered. How do they not faint or vomit? How can they just walk away like nothing happened?
It defies humanity.
Social media is turning out to be a real scourge, imo. We're raising a generation of narcissists who think they're all that and a bag of chips, and omg, they are so needy! OMG! What to do if they don't have "followers" and get "likes"?
FB, Instagram, snapchat and especially those hidden social media apps put our kids at risk.
Parents need to wake up and realize that much of what's happening starts at home.
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So its about mental health? Let me know when the GOP does anything about that either.
 
holbritter said:
The point was they ignored it. They didn't even look into it.
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Well now new facts are coming to light.
It appears that the Miami office of the FBI did INDEED receive red flags and either failed to kick it upstairs to Washington, or that Washington sat on it after they got the heads up.
That is very serious, and Christopher Wray has to answer for it.
 
Rob Larrikin said:
I know. For people with such power it's amazing how stupid they were. Well, smart and stupid at the same time. They were very cunning and brilliant, and at the same time quite stupid. That's the thing about socialists. They are an enigma. How can such cunning tyrants be so stupid and wrong at the same time?
Click to expand...

Hitler wasn't a socialist.
The more you keep repeating that piece of revisionism, the stupider people will think you are.
 
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Checkerboard Strangler said:
Well now new facts are coming to light.
It appears that the Miami office of the FBI did INDEED receive red flags and either failed to kick it upstairs to Washington, or that Washington sat on it after they got the heads up.
That is very serious, and Christopher Wray has to answer for it.
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Yes, he does. This was a major **** up.
 
poweRob said:
So its about mental health? Let me know when the GOP does anything about that either.
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OK. Note to Rob!! Calling Rob!! Are you listening, Rob?

The VA was absolutely failing under Obama. Trump, otoh, has made the VA a top priority and that includes the many veterans suffering from mental health issues.
 
Acadia said:
OK. Note to Rob!! Calling Rob!! Are you listening, Rob?

The VA was absolutely failing under Obama. Trump, otoh, has made the VA a top priority and that includes the many veterans suffering from mental health issues.
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I used VA healthcare under Obama. Had surgery at a VA. It was fantastic. In fact it was the VA everybody was trashing talking in Phoenix, AZ. You talk a lot. You show very little.
 
Acadia said:
OK. Note to Rob!! Calling Rob!! Are you listening, Rob?

The VA was absolutely failing under Obama. Trump, otoh, has made the VA a top priority and that includes the many veterans suffering from mental health issues.
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Would you like to know what is REALLY happening with the VA, and the real history of their ups and downs, or would you prefer to labor under the illusion that Obama, or any one president in particular, suddenly SUNK the VA into failure mode?
Not that such a thing isn't possible. Privatizing the VA would certainly accomplish that goal.

Are you a patient at the VA or do you have family who are?
 
Mother of a 6-year old Sandy Hook victim on Fox this morning:

"I know EXACTLY what they are going through in Florida...I would like Trump to address the actual cause and the actual cause is anxiety, anger, disconnection and isolation in our youth in America. I knew following Jesse's death that I couldn't wait for someone else to come up with a solution, and I was heartened to find that there actually was one, the "Jesse Lewis Choose Love" movement offers this solution and it's teaching kids how to have healthy relationships, how to manage their emotions, how to have deep meaningful connections, skills and tools for resilience, kids that can get along with one another, kids that love one another, they're not going to want to harm one another.
It's called social-emotional learning. It's been around for awhile. There are decades of research showing that children that have social emotional learning get better grades and test scores and graduation rates right off the bat. But, there are long-term studies that show that kids who have had social-emotional learning in kindergarten-they follow them all the way through adulthood-they've found that these adults have less substance abuse. less mental illness of all kinds, less incarceration, less violence and anger and even less divorce rates because we're teaching kids how to get along with one another.
It is the solution..."

I hope Trump taps this mother to help him spread the messages that this is a social-emotion learning issue, not just a gun law issue, and uses his platform to force a conversation about how we are failing our children in America.

If Nikolas Cruz had the intervention he needed and was place in psychiatric care, guess what? Gun laws on the books right now would have stopped him from buying a gun.
 
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poweRob said:
I used VA healthcare under Obama. Had surgery at a VA. It was fantastic. In fact it was the VA everybody was trashing talking in Phoenix, AZ. You talk a lot. You show very little.
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Wonderful. Glad you weren't a vet who died waiting for care.
And I'm glad the dead weight lifers can be fired instead of burying in like ticks.
 
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