• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

What do most of the last mass shootings have in common?

Kal'Stang said:
1: AR15 is the top selling and owned gun in America. That mass shooters use them is only natural to that fact. Doesn't mean that AR15's are the reason/cause for mass shootings. If this is not your point then you should be bringing up those points instead of targeting an inanimate object.
2: What can be accomplished with a bump stock can be accomplished by simply hooking your finger in your belt loop. Are you going to suggest that all belt loops be banned also? I didn't think so.
3: An AR-15 is generally a .223 caliber weapon. Any handgun that has a higher caliber than that will most certainly do more damage than an AR15. And guess what...lots of handguns have higher calibers. So your article is being disingenuous.

4: Instead of blaming an object...try addressing what is actually causing mass shootings. If you don't know what that is then get some studies going. Blaming an object is about as smart as blaming the car when you hit the gas peddle and run it off the end of a pier.
Click to expand...

Actually if you knew anything about the AR15 or read this article you would know that the high velocity of the AR15 using the .223 causes considerable more damage than the slower moving hand gun round. When I was in the military they showed us the difference between the two ans the carnage caused by the high velocity was astounding, even though the caliber was smaller. So learn something before you write things doen on a blog.
 
Grim17 said:
I grew up in Maryland until I was 13 years old. My last 4 years there I lived in a rural part of the state, the Eastern shore, with my grandparents. There was a gun rack in my bedroom that had a .22 semi-automatic rifle, and 2 shot guns... a .410 and 12 gauge. From the time I was 11, I was fully allowed to use any one of those guns to go hunting or target shooting with my friends as long as I bought the ammo. For all intents and purposes, they were my guns since my grandfather no longer hunted or had any use for them. I was friends with boys my age, up to seniors in high school. Most of the friends I had who drove, carried rifles and shotguns with them in their vehicles, including when they drove to school. Hell, it was hard to find a pickup truck in the area that didn't have a gun rack in it. This was back in the early to mid 70's and surprise surprise... kids weren't shooting up schools and using those weapons to kill people.

Every time one of these school shootings takes place, democrats, liberal activists and the mainstream media immediately lay the blame on insufficient gun control laws, gun manufacturers. or guns themselves, while completely ignoring the 1000 pound elephant sitting in the middle of the room. Instead of examining what these shootings have in common (the type of gun used), we need to be examining what has changed over the last 40+ years, that's led so many kids to commit these mass shootings.... and I'll give you a clue, it's not the guns.

I could write out a laundry list of things that have changed since I was a kid that explain why these shootings have become so prevalent... but let's be honest here, I don't really need to make that list, because anyone with even a small amount of common sense already knows the societal changes that have led to this, even if their politics forbid them from ever admitting it.


.
Click to expand...

Exactly. I was just thinking the last day or two, wondering how much the internet has to do with this. One thing all of these shootings have in common is in being committed by someone with many warning signs. We've been getting slightly better at this but we have a long way to go. People who are a danger to society should be off the streets before they commit these crimes, all the way down to single shootings. In fact, all the way down to non-violent crimes. Why should my home be burglarized by someone who is a career criminal and has been arrested for home burglaries twenty times, only to be released and make me and my home his 21st victim? We need to get serious about locking people up or keeping them locked up who are of a negative value to society. Give them free room and board for life. In the case of the mentally ill, they should remain under care in a facility until it is determined that they are no longer a threat to anyone.
 
blackjack50 said:
Has the OP replied to why shootings are committed with other weapons?
Click to expand...

If you read my message I was talking about MASS SHOOTINGs, not drive by. Look at the last ten mass shootings and all were carried out by AR15's. And what is funny I never mentioned banning AR15's or any gun. It is way to late in the day for that even if people wanted to do it and the law allowed. In our country we have more guns than people. What difference at this point would banning the sale of guns. There are so many ways someone can get a gun, any gun, if they so wish. It would be a too little too late situation in my opinion.
 
molten_dragon said:
That's kind of a weird claim since the AR-15 covers huge variety of guns made by different manufacturers. If we're going in categories that broad, I would bet 12-gauge shotguns and 9mm and .45 ACP pistols are both more common than the AR-15.
Click to expand...

Well if you want to get that picky then we can't very well go by what the OP's link says then can we since it doesn't single out any category of AR15 huh?

molten_dragon said:
You're ignoring velocity. A rifle round like a .223 carries significantly more kinetic energy than any common pistol round.
Click to expand...

Any bullet will penetrate human skin. And having a high velocity can actually be a good thing for a human. A .223 round will more than likely go straight through a human. Where as a lower velocity bullet won't, instead they have a tendency to bounce around the human body which can cause just as much, if not more damage than a .223. So what caliber a bullet is doesn't really matter the the scheme of things does it?
 
tres borrachos said:
Kal, can I ask you an honest question (not one that's intended to start a fight)? I asked my husband pretty much the same thing last night.

Why is it that a military-style gun, intended to (insert word here - kill? harm? whatever) a large amount of people is in fact the most widely used gun in America? You don't need it for protection unless 30 people break into your home at the same time. You don't need it to hunt ducks, deer, or quail. So why does the average American actually need a gun with that capacity?
Click to expand...

There are lots of things in this world that you don't "need". You don't "need" a fire extinguisher. But it sure is handy to have one in the off chance a fire starts in your home isn't it? ;) Why shouldn't a person own an AR-15? They're fun to play with at the shooting range. They make a pretty good hunting rifle. And quite effective at self defense in the right situation. Just as this kid found out Youtube ~ Boy Uses Dad's AR-15 to Shoot Invader.

But do you (general you, not you Tres )really think that if the AR-15 was somehow banned and completely gotten rid of that some other gun wouldn't be used in its place? There are plenty of guns out there that are just as powerful, and more powerful than the AR-15. Can be used just as effectively as an AR-15. And can kill just as easily as an AR-15. That the AR-15 may be the most widely used gun in mass shootings is irrelevant. Any gun would suffice to do the job. What is relevant is WHY are these mass shootings happening? That is what needs to be figured out, and fixed. A person could own the most powerful weapon in human history both past, present, and future, and we'd not have to worry if that person was stable and had no ill intentions. It's not the weapons that we should be looking at. It's the people behind the weapons.
 
independentusa said:
Actually if you knew anything about the AR15 or read this article you would know that the high velocity of the AR15 using the .223 causes considerable more damage than the slower moving hand gun round. When I was in the military they showed us the difference between the two ans the carnage caused by the high velocity was astounding, even though the caliber was smaller. So learn something before you write things doen on a blog.
Click to expand...

Yeah yeah, you were no doubt shown how much damage it causes against a piece of wood or metal. Did your instructors also tell you how a lower velocity bullet can bounce around inside a human thereby causing even more damage than that .223 shot which went straight through and through?
 
HowardBThiname said:
Yes. Just yes.

Even if you eliminate the few odd ball ones (like the accident during gun-awareness), which I don't mind -- I did link to the article, after all -- we still see that way too many incidents are occurring in public schools. The kid who committed suicide in the bathroom, how do you know he didn't at some point want to shoot others but then reconsidered. And, a suicide in a school bathroom ranks right up there with complete dysfunction and somehow, the kid related it to the school.

The one with the 12 year old whose gun went off in the backpack, again, why was it brought to school in the first place?

All you have to do is look at the prevalence of REAL school shootings where a student takes a gun and shoots, or intends to shoot, students or faculty, and the same thing comes up time and again -- why the schools?

Human being were never intended to be crowded, elbow to elbow, into mini-microcosms of society, which end up with the creation of caste systems. Bullying is a known trigger for these shooters -- bullying that takes place primarily in schools or is school-related.



Well, now you're way off target. This is about shootings in schools -- not businesses. I suppose each business (given their state's laws) can make their own decisions as to whether they need to be armed or have metal detectors.

I know of two banks, locally, that have armed guards. Not aware of any metal detectors other than those at the airports. But, if that's what you think will help -- by all means -- get the word out.
Click to expand...

Except of course that the kid who committed suicide in the bathroom didn't shoot others did he?
And the 12yo could have brought it to school simply because he thought it was "cool" and wanted to show his friends.

Assigning things that "might" have happened to an event that already happened, is disingenuous spinning. You don't know and yet you are assigning things to situations beyond what actually happened. All with the intent to make them out to be far worse than they actually were. Stick with what actually happened and the numbers that you can attribute to your agenda deflate quite quickly.
 
independentusa said:
Actually if you knew anything about the AR15 or read this article you would know that the high velocity of the AR15 using the .223 causes considerable more damage than the slower moving hand gun round. When I was in the military they showed us the difference between the two ans the carnage caused by the high velocity was astounding, even though the caliber was smaller. So learn something before you write things doen on a blog.
Click to expand...

you do know that you are not being truthful when you claim the AR 15 is so popular for mass shootings

Columbine
Lubys-Texas
Huberty-San Ysidro California McDonalds
Loughner and Gabby Giffords
Virginia Tech
Orlando Florida
Whitman and U of Texas
Patrick Purdy and Stockton California
etc



and AR 15s are incredibly popular so that will increase their usage over say stuff like a Beretta AR 70 or a SIG AMT
 
independentusa said:
The latest, most serious mass shootings all have something in common ? the AR-15 | Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

The AR15, a semi-automatic version of the military automatic assault rifle is the one thing that all of the latest mass killings have in common. The rifle that was once banned and now has become the weapon of choice for the mass murders. Why, for several reasons. For one it can shoot up to 45 rounds per minute and a lot faster with a bump stock which are still legal. A second reason, if you read the article in the link, they inflict a lot more damage to anyone hit by a round than a hand gun. It is also a big money maker for the companies that produce these weapons, so the NRA and the gun makers are going to make sure no one stops the manufacture and/or sale of these weapons. So we shall see many more such mass killings in the future and the weapon of choice will remain the AR15.
Click to expand...

So maybe you should deal with the issue of Why people commit these acts. The AR is a popular gun for many reasons and they have been sold in the Millions, funny thing since Millions are not being used to kill people, in fact the weapon of choice for most criminals, the source of most gun violence, are Handguns. If anyone thinks mass shootings will be stopped by banning future sales of AR style rifles they are delusional at best, or just plain idiots at worst.
 
JackA said:
What do most of the last mass shootings have in common?

Caucasian killers. All, not most.
Click to expand...

I think you're on to something there... So, should we ban white people from owning guns? How about putting up posters in schools warning children to be on the lookout for angry, suspicious looking white people?

Yup, you're really on to something there... pffff

.
 
Grim17 said:
I think you're on to something there... So, should we ban white people from owning guns? How about putting up posters in schools warning children to be on the lookout for angry, suspicious looking white people?

Yup, you're really on to something there... pffff

.
Click to expand...

Put the sarcasm away for a minute, conservative white guy, and imagine the dialogue we and the country would be having if most of the shooters were black.

The other common feature is that all of the shooters are male, most young males. That mass shootings are done by disaffected, young white males is a coincidence to which you attribute no meaning is not surprising.
 
independentusa said:
The latest, most serious mass shootings all have something in common ? the AR-15 | Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

The AR15, a semi-automatic version of the military automatic assault rifle is the one thing that all of the latest mass killings have in common. The rifle that was once banned and now has become the weapon of choice for the mass murders. Why, for several reasons. For one it can shoot up to 45 rounds per minute and a lot faster with a bump stock which are still legal. A second reason, if you read the article in the link, they inflict a lot more damage to anyone hit by a round than a hand gun. It is also a big money maker for the companies that produce these weapons, so the NRA and the gun makers are going to make sure no one stops the manufacture and/or sale of these weapons. So we shall see many more such mass killings in the future and the weapon of choice will remain the AR15.
Click to expand...

Here's an interesting exercise. Which of the following is an assault rifle?

mini 14 comparison.jpg

The answer is that they are the same gun. The copy above is just modified to look more like a military rifle. Most people ignorant of guns would call that one an assault rifle and the one below it would get a pass. (The gun below will accept the 30 round clip, also, so don't let that throw you off.)

I'm pretty sure it would be simple to modify an AR 15 to have a plain stock look as well.

It's a shame that the guy didn't use an AK 47. They are plentiful and capable like the AR 15, and you could be huffing and puffing about Russian influence as well.

I've seen few liberals condemn the man who actually perpetrated the attack and all the officials who failed to prevent the attack despite the amazing number of warning signs there were.

Do keep it up, though. Blaming gun owners, blaming Trump, blaming guns, calling for gun control. You're doing a great job.
 
Last edited:
Kal'Stang said:
Yeah yeah, you were no doubt shown how much damage it causes against a piece of wood or metal. Did your instructors also tell you how a lower velocity bullet can bounce around inside a human thereby causing even more damage than that .223 shot which went straight through and through?
Click to expand...

DO you ever know what the .223 does after it enters the human body, it tumbles but at a much higher velocity than a slower bullet causing way more damage. I was in the military and I think that they would know more than you and I would take their word. And in our display it wan't shot into wood or metal but into a jell block which is similar to human flesh and where you could actually see the damage. Why am I arguing with someone who just doesn't know the truth!!
 
Kal'Stang said:
Except of course that the kid who committed suicide in the bathroom didn't shoot others did he?
And the 12yo could have brought it to school simply because he thought it was "cool" and wanted to show his friends.

Assigning things that "might" have happened to an event that already happened, is disingenuous spinning. You don't know and yet you are assigning things to situations beyond what actually happened. All with the intent to make them out to be far worse than they actually were. Stick with what actually happened and the numbers that you can attribute to your agenda deflate quite quickly.
Click to expand...

Using your logic, we can't even cite intended shootings that were stopped by law enforcement as being part of the problem. That's just wrong.

Oftentimes, shooting plans (or talk of plans) are interrupted because someone tells on the future shooter.

But, I'm not going for a death count, because a death count does not offer what is emerging as a very clear and disturbing image that something is wrong in our public schools. Badly wrong. Something is increasingly triggering students to kill other students. Most of these shooters are kids, or those just out of childhood at best. What is triggering these children?

The answer lies behind the doors of the public schools.
 
Kal'Stang said:
There are lots of things in this world that you don't "need". You don't "need" a fire extinguisher. But it sure is handy to have one in the off chance a fire starts in your home isn't it? ;) Why shouldn't a person own an AR-15? They're fun to play with at the shooting range. They make a pretty good hunting rifle. And quite effective at self defense in the right situation. Just as this kid found out Youtube ~ Boy Uses Dad's AR-15 to Shoot Invader.

But do you (general you, not you Tres )really think that if the AR-15 was somehow banned and completely gotten rid of that some other gun wouldn't be used in its place? There are plenty of guns out there that are just as powerful, and more powerful than the AR-15. Can be used just as effectively as an AR-15. And can kill just as easily as an AR-15. That the AR-15 may be the most widely used gun in mass shootings is irrelevant. Any gun would suffice to do the job. What is relevant is WHY are these mass shootings happening? That is what needs to be figured out, and fixed. A person could own the most powerful weapon in human history both past, present, and future, and we'd not have to worry if that person was stable and had no ill intentions. It's not the weapons that we should be looking at. It's the people behind the weapons.
Click to expand...

<sigh> Disappointed, Kal. First off, I don't recall a story of a fire extinguisher killing 20 1st graders in a matter of minutes. Secondly, I don't need a Versace dress or a diamond bracelet either, but I don't recall ever hearing a story of 15 teenagers being killed by a Versace dress or a diamond bracelet either.

I'm glad that ARs are fun to play with. So are hand grenades. They make a big boom and little kids love it. But since they are deadly weapons, we don't get the luxury of playing with them.

No, any gun wouldn't allow someone to sit 20 flights up in the Mandalay Bay hotel and injure/kill 500 people.
 
independentusa said:
If you read my message I was talking about MASS SHOOTINGs, not drive by. Look at the last ten mass shootings and all were carried out by AR15's. And what is funny I never mentioned banning AR15's or any gun. It is way to late in the day for that even if people wanted to do it and the law allowed. In our country we have more guns than people. What difference at this point would banning the sale of guns. There are so many ways someone can get a gun, any gun, if they so wish. It would be a too little too late situation in my opinion.
Click to expand...

I guess I didn’t specify. What about the multiple shootings that occurred that didn’t use the AR15s? Charles Whitman? Virginia tech? There are plenty of examples. The weapon doesn’t matter. And trying to claim “well it was an AR15s” is what the news does so they can stir up controversies and sell more news. Mass shootings are good for business.
 
JackA said:
Put the sarcasm away for a minute, conservative white guy, and imagine the dialogue we and the country would be having if most of the shooters were black.

The other common feature is that all of the shooters are male, most young males. That mass shootings are done by disaffected, young white males is a coincidence to which you attribute no meaning is not surprising.
Click to expand...

why do liberals go ballistic over these rare mass shootings but never spend time calling for gun bans in the democrat run cities where young black makes kill thousands a year?
 
tres borrachos said:
<sigh> Disappointed, Kal. First off, I don't recall a story of a fire extinguisher killing 20 1st graders in a matter of minutes. Secondly, I don't need a Versace dress or a diamond bracelet either, but I don't recall ever hearing a story of 15 teenagers being killed by a Versace dress or a diamond bracelet either.

I'm glad that ARs are fun to play with. So are hand grenades. They make a big boom and little kids love it. But since they are deadly weapons, we don't get the luxury of playing with them.

No, any gun wouldn't allow someone to sit 20 flights up in the Mandalay Bay hotel and injure/kill 500 people.
Click to expand...

he had multiple guns and many guns including 8 shot Garand Rifles or SMLE bolt actions- would have allowed someone who has a tactically superior position and ten minutes to shoot, to kill that many people.

when cops are issued handgrenades and people protecting politicians are packing them, and 100 million Americans have them, then maybe comparing hand grenades to guns might make sense. Until then, its just plain stupid
 
HowardBThiname said:
Using your logic, we can't even cite intended shootings that were stopped by law enforcement as being part of the problem. That's just wrong.

Oftentimes, shooting plans (or talk of plans) are interrupted because someone tells on the future shooter.

But, I'm not going for a death count, because a death count does not offer what is emerging as a very clear and disturbing image that something is wrong in our public schools. Badly wrong. Something is increasingly triggering students to kill other students. Most of these shooters are kids, or those just out of childhood at best. What is triggering these children?

The answer lies behind the doors of the public schools.
Click to expand...

Actually you are wrong that you can't cite intended shootings...when it is known that was the intention. The problem with what you have done is that you are including things where you are assuming intention. Even though there is no evidence to support your assumed intention.

The bolded there IS what you should be asking. But laying claims based on assumptions is not going to help answer that question. And don't think that the answer lies solely behind the doors of public schools.
 
independentusa said:
If you read my message I was talking about MASS SHOOTINGs, not drive by. Look at the last ten mass shootings and all were carried out by AR15's. And what is funny I never mentioned banning AR15's or any gun. It is way to late in the day for that even if people wanted to do it and the law allowed. In our country we have more guns than people. What difference at this point would banning the sale of guns. There are so many ways someone can get a gun, any gun, if they so wish. It would be a too little too late situation in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Yep, "nut/convict control" is far more difficult (and expensive) than "gun control". If laws against mass murder are being ignored by folks that just don't care then it is not much of a stretch to say that more "gun control" laws are going to be ignored as well.
 
independentusa said:
The latest, most serious mass shootings all have something in common ? the AR-15 | Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

The AR15, a semi-automatic version of the military automatic assault rifle is the one thing that all of the latest mass killings have in common. The rifle that was once banned and now has become the weapon of choice for the mass murders. Why, for several reasons. For one it can shoot up to 45 rounds per minute and a lot faster with a bump stock which are still legal. A second reason, if you read the article in the link, they inflict a lot more damage to anyone hit by a round than a hand gun. It is also a big money maker for the companies that produce these weapons, so the NRA and the gun makers are going to make sure no one stops the manufacture and/or sale of these weapons. So we shall see many more such mass killings in the future and the weapon of choice will remain the AR15.
Click to expand...

They are not a cause of mass shootings, but they are very, very efficient/effective. That they look cool and can be dressed up with thousands of accessories certainly helps with their popularity.
 
tres borrachos said:
<sigh> Disappointed, Kal. First off, I don't recall a story of a fire extinguisher killing 20 1st graders in a matter of minutes. Secondly, I don't need a Versace dress or a diamond bracelet either, but I don't recall ever hearing a story of 15 teenagers being killed by a Versace dress or a diamond bracelet either.

I'm glad that ARs are fun to play with. So are hand grenades. They make a big boom and little kids love it. But since they are deadly weapons, we don't get the luxury of playing with them.

No, any gun wouldn't allow someone to sit 20 flights up in the Mandalay Bay hotel and injure/kill 500 people.
Click to expand...

Guess what, hand grenades are also off limits to the general public. ;)

And you do know that the Vegas shooter used multiple types of guns right? Not just an AR-15.

And why are you disappointed? You asked why it was used so widely, I answered.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Guess what, hand grenades are also off limits to the general public. ;)

And you do know that the Vegas shooter used multiple types of guns right? Not just an AR-15.

And why are you disappointed? You asked why it was used so widely, I answered.
Click to expand...

Hand grenades are off limits because they are a danger and cause mass destruction. As I said. Even though people want them because they're fun, they still can't have them.

I'm disappointed because you and I both know that fire extinguishers have exactly zero to do with a discussion about a specific firearm that's intended to kill a lot of people, and as recently as 2 days ago killed 15 teenagers. I don't remember 15 teenagers being killed by a fire extinguisher.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom