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So how did he get in? Are all the security measures worthless?

Rogue Valley said:
As I understand it, he waited by a locked entrance until two students exited. He then stopped the door from closing, shot the two students dead, entered the building and donned a gas mask. He then triggered the school fire alarm which (as he knew by being a previous student) causes teachers to instruct their students to leave their classrooms and file outside. Thus, the 1st floor main corridor became crowded with students (a perfect kill zone). He had also brought along smoke grenades, but it is unknown at this time if he used any. He exited the school with the fleeing students, so this was not a murder/suicide mission. He was apprehended a number of blocks from the school based on a clothing description. He did not resist.
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My heart just aches reading this.

What a POS but let no one say he didnt know what he was doing. His claims of regret are the lowest possible insult.
 
Goshin said:
For over ten years I haven't been to a school where you could just walk in. They keep the doors locked and there are barriers, and someone has to "buzz" you in.

Most schools have a "resource officer" (aka cop) on site during school hours... some have two. Armed.


So how did this guy just waltz in with an AR15 and nobody knew until he started shooting? Nobody prevented him entering. Apparently no armed school resource officer intervened during the shooting.


Did this school just not have such security measures, or did they fail? If the latter, how?


I really, really want to know, but such details are scant in such shooting incidents.
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The security were not armed. Also Glass that is breakable is nothing but false idea of security.
 
Lursa said:
My heart just aches reading this.

What a POS but let no one say he didnt know what he was doing. His claims of regret are the lowest possible insult.
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Not that hard to plan something like this, smoke, counter measure, locking doors, I mean this is just standard tactical planning.
 
BreadConqueror said:
I'm trying to protect all of our children.

No one is trying to take your personal defense weapon.

Long-rifles are not useful for home defense, or fighting off rapists or car jackers.

Try to pull a long rifle in a car. You will look like an idiot and you will be robbed.

Shotguns are the best for home defense. They also are great for hunting.

They aren't great for mass shootings.

And far more children have been killed by firearms this year than bus crashes, so your example is weak.
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AR-15 Used for North Carolina Home Defense - The Truth About Guns

Bull****.
 
Lursa said:
You've looked into it?
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No, it requires anyone with an IQ above 80 to think about basic human interaction with their sorroundings.

What do doorways do? Constrict the flow of people, chain/lock a door, what do you have? A very dead end.

What does smoke do? It chokes, blinds, makes it easier to move about unseen.
 
PhysicalRemoval said:
No, it requires anyone with an IQ above 80 to think about basic human interaction with their sorroundings.

What do doorways do? Constrict the flow of people, chain/lock a door, what do you have? A very dead end.

What does smoke do? It chokes, blinds, makes it easier to move about unseen.
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The movies out of Hollywood are a great teaching aid.
 
PhysicalRemoval said:
No, it requires anyone with an IQ above 80 to think about basic human interaction with their sorroundings.

What do doorways do? Constrict the flow of people, chain/lock a door, what do you have? A very dead end.

What does smoke do? It chokes, blinds, makes it easier to move about unseen.
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That's not the point I'm making. I'm saying that these people LIVE for the planning and preparation. They fantasize about the day they carry it out. Many of them believe they'll die or plan to suicide. These arent 'somebody just hurt my feelings, I'm going home for a gun' shootings. They arent immediate reactions, they arent even something they go home and mull over for a couple of days.

It doesnt take an IQ over 80 to understand the psychology here when these details have been studied for a couple of decades now at least.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
The movies out of Hollywood are a great teaching aid.
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Heh. No, they aren't. Not for dealing with armed and competent opposition.
 
Goshin said:
Really? Not like that locally. My nephews' elementary school, the middle school, the high school, ALL have a security barrier and a cop or two.
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They redid the entire outside of our elementary school. It use to be open.

Now there is black fencing that goes around the entire open section with locked gates during school the only way in is through the front office.
i do believe there is a resource officer onsite as well.

after that inncident i got a text message from the school the next day were some punk kids thought it would be funny to pull a prank and call
in a shooting. they were automatically arrested.

So what the hell i want to know is if they can call in a prank and get arrested how was this kid not arrested before hand for the threats that he was making
and people that reported it.
 
ludin said:
They redid the entire outside of our elementary school. It use to be open.

Now there is black fencing that goes around the entire open section with locked gates during school the only way in is through the front office.
i do believe there is a resource officer onsite as well.

after that inncident i got a text message from the school the next day were some punk kids thought it would be funny to pull a prank and call
in a shooting. they were automatically arrested.

So what the hell i want to know is if they can call in a prank and get arrested how was this kid not arrested before hand for the threats that he was making
and people that reported it.
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Copycats abound. We had a local teen call in a threat to the local HS the very next day. He was arrested and charged.

One wonders... apparently there was a LOT of evidence this young man was a threat, and numerous times something might have been done if someone had done their due diligence.
 
Goshin said:
Copycats abound. We had a local teen call in a threat to the local HS the very next day. He was arrested and charged.

One wonders... apparently there was a LOT of evidence this young man was a threat, and numerous times something might have been done if someone had done their due diligence.
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The cops were constantly out to this kids house. They knew he had guns but they went well he is getting proper treatment.
clean hands and leave.

his parents or whatever were constantly calling the cops on him for his erratic behavior.
they should have been investigating his facebook pages.

no they only do that after the fact. :doh
 
ludin said:
The cops were constantly out to this kids house. They knew he had guns but they went well he is getting proper treatment.
clean hands and leave.

his parents or whatever were constantly calling the cops on him for his erratic behavior.
they should have been investigating his facebook pages.

no they only do that after the fact. :doh
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Yeah I have this weird thing I do.... when someone threatens me or mine, I take them at their word and respond accordingly.

Maybe it is past time we started doing that in cases such as these.
 
Goshin said:
Yeah I have this weird thing I do.... when someone threatens me or mine, I take them at their word and respond accordingly.

Maybe it is past time we started doing that in cases such as these.
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murder threats is a criminal offense. which is what this kid did almost on a constant basis.
he was even kicked out of that school for being so out of control.

i mean it takes a lot and i mean a lot to get kicked out of a public school.
 
ludin said:
murder threats is a criminal offense. which is what this kid did almost on a constant basis.
he was even kicked out of that school for being so out of control.

i mean it takes a lot and i mean a lot to get kicked out of a public school.
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It certainly does. They put up with kids I would have booted a long time ago. He must have been awful.
 
Goshin said:
It certainly does. They put up with kids I would have booted a long time ago. He must have been awful.
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constant fights, threatening students and teachers etc ...
all the warning signs were there and just eh.
 
Goshin said:
Copycats abound. We had a local teen call in a threat to the local HS the very next day. He was arrested and charged.

One wonders... apparently there was a LOT of evidence this young man was a threat, and numerous times something might have been done if someone had done their due diligence.
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I'm curious, what was he charged with?
 
ludin said:
murder threats is a criminal offense. which is what this kid did almost on a constant basis.
he was even kicked out of that school for being so out of control.

i mean it takes a lot and i mean a lot to get kicked out of a public school.
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Is it? It's not considered that in domestic abuse cases. It is factored into measures taken tho, like restraining orders.

I cant speak for all states tho.
 
JuiceJS said:
CNN does not care how he got in. They care about race, gun and religion. Facts are irrelevant to CNN
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I was eating in a restaurant today for lunch and they had CNN on. I swear it was the gun control channel for the whole 30 minutes I was there. They didn't even bother to put on any opposing views or even centrist views.
 
NIMBY said:
No insults or bull**** directed at you, Goshin.
Try answering my substantive questions and statements, since I know firsthand of what I speak ...
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But Goshin asked how the kid got in and you haven't answered HIS question.
 
Lursa said:
Is it? It's not considered that in domestic abuse cases. It is factored into measures taken tho, like restraining orders.

I cant speak for all states tho.
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Federal law prohibits transmitting "any threat to injure the person of another" and penalizes such threats with five years in prison. But not all threats are created equally, and the Supreme Court has determined that only "true threats" can be punished. This generally means that the threat must be credible and specific enough that a reasonable person would be threatened.

Criminal Penalties for Murder Threats - FindLaw Blotter

It is even illegal in FL.

836.10 Written threats to kill or do bodily injury; punishment.— Any person who writes or composes and also sends or procures the sending of any letter, inscribed communication, or electronic communication, whether such letter or communication be signed or anonymous, to any person, containing a threat to kill or to do bodily injury to the person to whom such letter or communication is sent, or a threat to kill or do bodily injury to any member of the family of the person to whom such letter or communication is sent commits a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s.
 
ludin said:
Federal law prohibits transmitting "any threat to injure the person of another" and penalizes such threats with five years in prison. But not all threats are created equally, and the Supreme Court has determined that only "true threats" can be punished. This generally means that the threat must be credible and specific enough that a reasonable person would be threatened.

Criminal Penalties for Murder Threats - FindLaw Blotter

It is even illegal in FL.

836.10 Written threats to kill or do bodily injury; punishment.— Any person who writes or composes and also sends or procures the sending of any letter, inscribed communication, or electronic communication, whether such letter or communication be signed or anonymous, to any person, containing a threat to kill or to do bodily injury to the person to whom such letter or communication is sent, or a threat to kill or do bodily injury to any member of the family of the person to whom such letter or communication is sent commits a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s.
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Thanks. The bold is pretty much what I was thinking and it can be really hard to meet that bar.
 
Goshin said:
I don't know. Guns were sorta-kinda banned from schools by the 70s when I went, but I still remember the coach getting his deer rifle out of the trunk and showing it to some of us.

We HAD access to guns. Guns in almost every household, and back then rarely locked up.

For some reason we just didn't think blowing away a bunch of people at school was The Thing To Do. I'm not sure what changed... it isn't the guns though, it's people. The culture. Something.
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1. Culture
2. psychoactive drugs
3. Coddling
 
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