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California Bakery Can Refuse To Make Cakes For Same-Sex Weddings, Judge Rules[W:150]

Dittohead not!

Dittohead not!

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Re: California Bakery Can Refuse To Make Cakes For Same-Sex Weddings, Judge Rules

I'm surprised that the ruling came down like that. I do certainly think that a bakery has every right to refuse to make a wedding cake for events they don't want to make a cake for. It's their labor after all and wedding cakes are special ordered. Still, it's interesting that CA of all places would rule that the bakery had the right to refuse service.
 
Re: California Bakery Can Refuse To Make Cakes For Same-Sex Weddings, Judge Rules

Ikari said:
I'm surprised that the ruling came down like that. I do certainly think that a bakery has every right to refuse to make a wedding cake for events they don't want to make a cake for. It's their labor after all and wedding cakes are special ordered. Still, it's interesting that CA of all places would rule that the bakery had the right to refuse service.
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Kern county were I reside part time is pretty darn conservative. I am not surprised.
 
Re: California Bakery Can Refuse To Make Cakes For Same-Sex Weddings, Judge Rules

Dittohead not! said:
[h=1]California Bakery Can Refuse To Make Cakes For Same-Sex Weddings, Judge Rules[/h]


Bakery won. Gay couple lost. No one has to bake "gay" wedding cakes.
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Good for them. I am gay. I don't think anyone should be forced to make a wedding cake for me. Business owners should be free to exercise their religious views. It isn't like the couple cannot find another baker. Heck, if I really wanted a cake from that particular baker I could just have one of my straight friends order one. However, I would prefer to give my money to someone who is happy to bake the cake for a same sex wedding.

The artistic expression thing is kinda stupid though. If making a cake is artistic expression then what isn't?
 
Re: California Bakery Can Refuse To Make Cakes For Same-Sex Weddings, Judge Rules

Wow a rare correct decision out of CA.
 
Re: California Bakery Can Refuse To Make Cakes For Same-Sex Weddings, Judge Rules

CriticalThought said:
Good for them. I am gay. I don't think anyone should be forced to make a wedding cake for me. Business owners should be free to exercise their religious views. It isn't like the couple cannot find another baker. Heck, if I really wanted a cake from that particular baker I could just have one of my straight friends order one. However, I would prefer to give my money to someone who is happy to bake the cake for a same sex wedding.

The artistic expression thing is kinda stupid though. If making a cake is artistic expression then what isn't?
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It really doesn’t seem to be a particularly good idea to make someone who doesn’t want to make food for you, does it?
 
Re: California Bakery Can Refuse To Make Cakes For Same-Sex Weddings, Judge Rules

How exactly is a cake gay anyway?

Interesting decision here. Especially considering it's CA.
 
Re: California Bakery Can Refuse To Make Cakes For Same-Sex Weddings, Judge Rules

tres borrachos said:
How exactly is a cake gay anyway?

Interesting decision here. Especially considering it's CA.
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I didn't know that cakes had sex at all... Learn something new every day. :)
 
Re: California Bakery Can Refuse To Make Cakes For Same-Sex Weddings, Judge Rules

tres borrachos said:
Did you think they were virgins??
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Thanks a lot... I think my love for German Chocolate cake just took a big hit.

.
 
Re: California Bakery Can Refuse To Make Cakes For Same-Sex Weddings, Judge Rules

X Factor said:
It really doesn’t seem to be a particularly good idea to make someone who doesn’t want to make food for you, does it?
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Pretty much. I think the market also plays a big part here. Most of these bakeries seem to go belly up anyways once it becomes known they are putting their "religious views" into action against one particular group of people. You notice these bakers often have no issue making wedding cakes for adulterers, divorcees, interfaith couples, pets, etc. so people see the frauds from the genuinely devout pretty easily. However, the owners run off with donations from conservative sympathizers when the issue is pushed in court, which means using the legal system to bully them almost always backfires.
 
Re: California Bakery Can Refuse To Make Cakes For Same-Sex Weddings, Judge Rules

PirateMk1 said:
Kern county were I reside part time is pretty darn conservative. I am not surprised.
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Conservatives value and uphold the First Amendment. Liberals don't.
 
Re: California Bakery Can Refuse To Make Cakes For Same-Sex Weddings, Judge Rules

CriticalThought said:
Good for them. I am gay. I don't think anyone should be forced to make a wedding cake for me. Business owners should be free to exercise their religious views. It isn't like the couple cannot find another baker. Heck, if I really wanted a cake from that particular baker I could just have one of my straight friends order one. However, I would prefer to give my money to someone who is happy to bake the cake for a same sex wedding.

The artistic expression thing is kinda stupid though. If making a cake is artistic expression then what isn't?
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The judge wasn't going to trot out the religious freedom reasoning again, valid as it is. He has inserted a new argument into the mix and that is good because it will help lead us to an ultimate truth on the matter. This will slow down those who wish to persecute bakers who don't give everything to Caesar but reserve something for God or their conscience, but I expect it to be appealed.
 
Re: California Bakery Can Refuse To Make Cakes For Same-Sex Weddings, Judge Rules

CriticalThought said:
Pretty much. I think the market also plays a big part here. Most of these bakeries seem to go belly up anyways once it becomes known they are putting their "religious views" into action against one particular group of people. You notice these bakers often have no issue making wedding cakes for adulterers, divorcees, interfaith couples, pets, etc. so people see the frauds from the genuinely devout pretty easily. However, the owners run off with donations from conservative sympathizers when the issue is pushed in court, which means using the legal system to bully them almost always backfires.
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I've made basically the same argument since these "bakers" issues came about several years back.

I agree 100% with the decision, but I think any baker who refuses to bake a cake for a gay wedding, is committing financial suicide. Word of mouth is still a factor that can make or break anyone, and besides, in this day and age, refusing business for any reason isn't a very smart idea.


.
 
Re: California Bakery Can Refuse To Make Cakes For Same-Sex Weddings, Judge Rules

Indian Giver said:
Conservatives value and uphold the First Amendment. Liberals don't.
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Glad you support the right of protesting NFL players to kneel during the National Anthem, for protesters to burn the American flag, and for mainstream media to criticize Trump.
 
Re: California Bakery Can Refuse To Make Cakes For Same-Sex Weddings, Judge Rules

CriticalThought said:
Good for them. I am gay. I don't think anyone should be forced to make a wedding cake for me. Business owners should be free to exercise their religious views. It isn't like the couple cannot find another baker. Heck, if I really wanted a cake from that particular baker I could just have one of my straight friends order one. However, I would prefer to give my money to someone who is happy to bake the cake for a same sex wedding.

The artistic expression thing is kinda stupid though. If making a cake is artistic expression then what isn't?
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Cake decorating can be considered artistic expression. Or not. It would depend the skill and creativity of the decorator.
 
Re: California Bakery Can Refuse To Make Cakes For Same-Sex Weddings, Judge Rules

CriticalThought said:
Good for them. I am gay. I don't think anyone should be forced to make a wedding cake for me. Business owners should be free to exercise their religious views. It isn't like the couple cannot find another baker. Heck, if I really wanted a cake from that particular baker I could just have one of my straight friends order one. However, I would prefer to give my money to someone who is happy to bake the cake for a same sex wedding.

The artistic expression thing is kinda stupid though. If making a cake is artistic expression then what isn't?
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you apparently have never made a wedding cake

WEDDING CAKES ? Spring Valley Catering

they can be simple in design, or very complex

they can run a couple hundred dollars....or 3-4 thousand for a cake

and if you think there isnt artistry involved, you arent paying attention
 
Re: California Bakery Can Refuse To Make Cakes For Same-Sex Weddings, Judge Rules

CriticalThought said:
Good for them. I am gay. I don't think anyone should be forced to make a wedding cake for me. Business owners should be free to exercise their religious views. It isn't like the couple cannot find another baker. Heck, if I really wanted a cake from that particular baker I could just have one of my straight friends order one. However, I would prefer to give my money to someone who is happy to bake the cake for a same sex wedding.

The artistic expression thing is kinda stupid though. If making a cake is artistic expression then what isn't?
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I don't think it is really about Baking the cake but rather the decorating is art.
IMO trying to define art is a bad idea
 
Re: California Bakery Can Refuse To Make Cakes For Same-Sex Weddings, Judge Rules

CriticalThought said:
You notice these bakers often have no issue making wedding cakes for adulterers, divorcees, interfaith couples, pets, etc. so people see the frauds from the genuinely devout pretty easily.
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No, no. You are making the mistake of conflating categorization of people with nature of ceremony. There is no baker in any of these cases that I have reviewed who has refused to make a cake for someone who is gay. You can go up to them, say "I am gay, may I have a cake" and you have a deal. The issue is when a cake is requested to be made for a gay "wedding". It is then that a baker is being asked to participate in a ceremony in which doing so would violate their conscience. I don't think that adulterers have ceremonies when they cheat or that a couple getting divorced brings a cake to the courtroom or law office to mark the occasion (though it would be interesting to see how many are going through the Big D in a celebratory mood).
 
Re: California Bakery Can Refuse To Make Cakes For Same-Sex Weddings, Judge Rules

Indian Giver said:
The judge wasn't going to trot out the religious freedom reasoning again, valid as it is. He has inserted a new argument into the mix and that is good because it will help lead us to an ultimate truth on the matter. This will slow down those who wish to persecute bakers who don't give everything to Caesar but reserve something for God or their conscience, but I expect it to be appealed.
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Not really.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/09/16/us/supreme-court-baker-same-sex-marriage.html

SCOTUS already heard these arguments and I doubt they will stick. Religious expression sure, but art and speech is kind of a different matter when you are running a business.
 
Re: California Bakery Can Refuse To Make Cakes For Same-Sex Weddings, Judge Rules

CriticalThought said:
Glad you support the right of protesting NFL players to kneel during the National Anthem, for protesters to burn the American flag, and for mainstream media to criticize Trump.
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I support the right of people to do all those things. Do you support my right to also criticize those who do them or does freedom of expression only go one way?
 
Re: California Bakery Can Refuse To Make Cakes For Same-Sex Weddings, Judge Rules

Grim17 said:
I've made basically the same argument since these "bakers" issues came about several years back.

I agree 100% with the decision, but I think any baker who refuses to bake a cake for a gay wedding, is committing financial suicide. Word of mouth is still a factor that can make or break anyone, and besides, in this day and age, refusing business for any reason isn't a very smart idea.


.
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I agree that turning away a revenue stream isn't a smart business decision, but the RIGHT to say "no", under our still-standing 1st amendment, has come at a very high price, n'est ce pas?
 
Re: California Bakery Can Refuse To Make Cakes For Same-Sex Weddings, Judge Rules

Grim17 said:
Thanks a lot... I think my love for German Chocolate cake just took a big hit.

.
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Those Germans aren't easy! They aren't slutty foods.
 
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