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It will take years for Trump to wash the stench of the Obama administrarion away.

Bok_Tukalo said:
The Memo released from the House Intelligence Committee shows that the so-called dossier was used to get the FISA warrant in October of 2016 to surveil Carter Page. That's about it.
Click to expand...

Well that is boring.
 
Ray9 said:
In foreign countries if a citizen needs an official document they can often get it by bribing a public official. This is the kind of corruption that exists and has always existed in the world, particularly the third world. Most Americans are harboring a dangerous delusion. They think that could never happen here because America is not a third world country.

They may want to think again because Hillary Clinton and her campaign were able to buy a FISA Warrant by spreading money around to the right people. The Obama administration was probably the most corrupt government authority in the history of the human race not just America. Obama’s top secret life history and his emergence from out of nowhere as a shining beacon of pristine political correctness should have been a red flag to any reasonable citizen.

Since the Great Society the political establishment of the US has been slowly and deliberately harvesting a population that is for all practical purposes dumber than a bucket of sand. You don’t need to be a weatherman to know which way the wind is blowing and that wind blew in one ear out and right out the other of millions of American voters when Barack Obama mounted a unicorn and rode into the White House like a cartoon character festooned with an acme Noble Prize.

The imbecilic, swooning giddiness of the cognitively depleted multitudes that put Obama in office was seen by Obama as a wild opportunity to corrupt government agencies like they’d never been corrupted before. Obama, with a race card in one hand and his Cracker-Jack-box Noble Prize in the other, began stacking these agencies with stooges so corrupt they’d make the Mafia blush.

Hillary Clinton headed the list with Loretta Lynch, Susan Rice and Eric Holder not far behind. The malfeasance of the Obama administration was so widespread and so complete that the FBI and the Department of Justice stood by like servile bootlickers while Hillary Clinton destroyed evidence of incompetence and a casual disregard for national security just like she has done all of her life.

When Hillary Clinton needed a FISA Warrant to smear and hamstring political opposition she just opened the wallet of the Democratic Party and bought one. The rotten stench of the Obama Administration is now aimed at the current president like the skunk that it is. It will take America years to wash that smell away.
Click to expand...

Ah, the usual lengthy anti Obama/Democrats/pro Trump/Republicans post Ray9 posts usually on a weekly basis. Next week, it will be another.
 
"wash the stench of the Obama administrarion away."

I don't like the word choice here.

If you are saying that it'll take some time for Obama's policies to be reversed, I could agree, as could quite a few others, I would imagine.

Choosing to use the word 'stench' I think is not appropriate and carries with it far too much baggage, an overly loaded term, for a constructive or interesting discussion.
 
eohrnberger said:
"wash the stench of the Obama administrarion away."

I don't like the word choice here.

If you are saying that it'll take some time for Obama's policies to be reversed, I could agree, as could quite a few others, I would imagine.

Choosing to use the word 'stench' I think is not appropriate and carries with it far too much baggage, an overly loaded term, for a constructive or interesting discussion.
Click to expand...

A skunk stands its ground by spraying a foul smelling substance on enemies. Obama was in this up to his large ears. Why he is not paying a price now is a subject for further debate. The tactic of hamstringing a presidency with false accusations slows the recovery of our nation and makes us a laughing stock to the rest of the world. You have to wonder what the Russians have on Obama and Clinton to cause them to resort these suicidal tactics. The guess here is that things are going to come out that will destroy Obama's legacy and likely put both the Clinton's in a legal morass until they die of old age. Some will go directly to jail.
 
”the Obama stench.” We know what Righties mean by that.
 
Ray9 said:
A skunk stands its ground by spraying a foul smelling substance on enemies. Obama was in this up to his large ears. Why he is not paying a price now is a subject for further debate. The tactic of hamstringing a presidency with false accusations slows the recovery of our nation and makes us a laughing stock to the rest of the world. You have to wonder what the Russians have on Obama and Clinton to cause them to resort these suicidal tactics. The guess here is that things are going to come out that will destroy Obama's legacy and likely put both the Clinton's in a legal morass until they die of old age. Some will go directly to jail.
Click to expand...

Obama is not a skunk. He is a human being.

You can disagree with Obama's (or anyone for that matter) policies, decisions and actions, vehemently in fact, without resorting to name calling.

I think you'll find that a well construction position / argument will gain greater traction, and lead to better, more thoughtful, and critical discussions.
 
eohrnberger said:
Obama is not a skunk. He is a human being.

You can disagree with Obama's (or anyone for that matter) policies, decisions and actions, vehemently in fact, without resorting to name calling.

I think you'll find that a well construction position / argument will gain greater traction, and lead to better, more thoughtful, and critical discussions.
Click to expand...
Oh, come on, we have both been on this site long enough to know the bolded is a rare exception to the rule.




eohrnberger said:
As more and more of this scandal unfolds, the more and more it appears to be the case that Obama's
presidency will in fact be the most corrupt presidency in US history.

Thanks Obama.
Click to expand...
So then you agree Obama IS a skunk.
 
Bok_Tukalo said:
The problem with that is he did not even get a plurality of the vote, let alone a majority.
Click to expand...
Who ever said Trump got the majority? You folks still don't know our electoral system.

What he did actually say, and its absolutely true, the "election of Donald Trump was a rejection of the political establishment", some call them the globalists, some the MIC and various other monikers.
 
Ray9 said:
Perhaps you noticed that the collective wisdom of the masses rejected the political establishment?
Click to expand...

The "collective wisdom of the masses" is giving us people in power around the world right now from Putin, Erdogan, Nigel Farage, and Duterte, to Trump.

"Democracy is the theory that the common man knows what is good for him, and he deserves to get it good and hard."
-HL Mencken
Click to expand...
 
Gaugingcatenate said:
Oh, come on, we have both been on this site long enough to know the bolded is a rare exception to the rule.
Click to expand...

While true, there's always hoping, I suppose.


So then you agree Obama IS a skunk.
Click to expand...

No, but it appears that he led a very corrupt presidency. Not telling what fall out this'll have in the long run.
 
Bok_Tukalo said:
The progression is that Clinton, through Fusion GPS, paid a former British spy to collude with the Kremlin in manufacturing evidence to present to the United States' FISA court for a warrant in order to surveil a former Trump campaign volunteer a couple of weeks before the election.

Something like that. Honestly, it gets a bit fuzzy if you think about it too much.
Click to expand...
Succinct and accurate, well described.

To recap the FBI and DOJ, and perhaps other departments under the 0 administration knowingly used false documentation to illegally spy on a fellow American citizen in repeated violation of his fundamental constitutional rights, no matter that he was with or without any campaign.

There are basically two sides in this battle, Trump and a majority of the sane and fact driven vs everybody else, but especially former 0 admin. and holdovers/supporter plus Hillary and team. Start matching up, after at least two years of spying, including illegal and still buried tip of the iceberg future documentation that is piling up daily, sometimes hourly and the pace is only speeding up, match up which side has committed the most crimes, at least that we currently know.

And if it get starts to get too fuzzy, just ask, we will try to assist.
 
Ray9 said:
A skunk stands its ground by spraying a foul smelling substance on enemies. Obama was in this up to his large ears. Why he is not paying a price now is a subject for further debate. The tactic of hamstringing a presidency with false accusations slows the recovery of our nation and makes us a laughing stock to the rest of the world. You have to wonder what the Russians have on Obama and Clinton to cause them to resort these suicidal tactics. The guess here is that things are going to come out that will destroy Obama's legacy and likely put both the Clinton's in a legal morass until they die of old age. Some will go directly to jail.
Click to expand...

:lamo Every word of this reflects a mirror image of reality. And yet, fake-news acolytes like you have the nerve to complain about not being taken seriously. This Obama Derangement Syndrome appears to be a chronic, life-long illness. lol.

eohrnberger said:
You can disagree with Obama's (or anyone for that matter) policies, decisions and actions, vehemently in fact, without resorting to name calling.

I think you'll find that a well construction position / argument will gain greater traction, and lead to better, more thoughtful, and critical discussions.
Click to expand...

Nonsense. The FACTS already prove the exact opposite. For the first time in the lifetime of anyone on this board, we just completed a two-term presidency without a SINGLE major corruption scandal. The Obama administration was the LEAST corrupt, LEAST scandalous and MOST transparent two-term presidency in modern American history. That might be setting a low bar....but that says more about previous presidents (i.e. Clinton, Reagan, Bush, Nixon, LBJ, etc.) than about Obama. We can argue about Obama's policies, platforms, decisions and actions, etc...... but THAT issue is just not arguable.

The W administration was clearly the most corrupt in modern history. But the Trump regime has already surpassed W and is in a category all it's own.....after only 12 months. We could spend hours just recounting all of the Trump lies........Trump scandals.......and Trump incompetence.....just since January 20, 2017.
 
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Gaugingcatenate said:
There are basically two sides in this battle, Trump and a majority of the sane and fact driven vs everybody else, but especially former 0 admin. and holdovers/supporter plus Hillary and team.
Click to expand...

I see. So the sane and fact-driven guys are the ones who just 6 years thinking that Obama has a Kenyan birth certificate because Trump just said so, or who think the Earth is only 6000 years old, or that global warming is just a Chinese hoax, or that trickle down economics works, and these are the "majority of the sane and fact driven"? :lamo
 
ataraxia said:
I see. So the sane and fact-driven guys are the ones who just 6 years thinking that Obama has a Kenyan birth certificate because Trump just said so, or who think the Earth is only 6000 years old, or that global warming is just a Chinese hoax, or that trickle down economics works, and these are the "majority of the sane and fact driven"? :lamo
Click to expand...

Yes.

Especially easy to understand when compared to the folks who brought us the initial "Global cooling", then "Global Warming" finally hedging, settling on the hard to argue against super generic "climate change" scares. The resource depletion, nuclear energy, DDTand many other scares, that foisted on us such insane ideas like all cultures and socities are equal, open borders concepts with rampant welfare programs and to hell with sovereignty or rule of law. That brought us hyper political correctness, microgressions, checking your priviledge, cultural appropriation, confusion about genders, what? there are 77 now? The ones who brought us the socialist communist Hugo Chavez style prosperity wrecking ball templates that don't work at the national level down to destroying large swaths of wealthy cities like Detroit, Chicago, LA and under which the world went through monumental death and misery to the tune of 100 plus million killed by their own fellow rabid ideological countrymen.


Those who dont believe in god and country and family nor believe that America is truly exceptional. Oh, and didnt think DJT would run, knew he wouldnt win the nomination, guffawed nearly choked at the mere mention that he would win, that touted the true scientic precision of modern polling. That to this day are having a hard time accepting Hillary lost snd that the current president was right all along on spying by the former corrupt administration.

So, I guess I should have qualified my statement by saying MORE sane and MORE fact driven...but YES, most definitely
 
ultmd said:
:lamo Every word of this reflects a mirror image of reality. And yet, fake-news acolytes like you have the nerve to complain about not being taken seriously. This Obama Derangement Syndrome appears to be a chronic, life-long illness. lol.



Nonsense. The FACTS already prove the exact opposite. For the first time in the lifetime of anyone on this board, we just completed a two-term presidency without a SINGLE major corruption scandal. The Obama administration was the LEAST corrupt, LEAST scandalous and MOST transparent two-term presidency in modern American history.
Click to expand...

Bought that propaganda, did you?

In reality, Mr. Obama has presided over some of the worst scandals of any president in recent decades. Here’s a partial list:

  • State Department email. In an effort to evade federal open-records laws, Mr. Obama’s first secretary of state set up a private server, which she used exclusively to conduct official business, including communications with the president and the transmission of classified material. A federal criminal investigation produced no charges, but FBI Director James Comey reported that the secretary and her colleagues “were extremely careless” in handling national secrets.
  • Operation Fast and Furious. The Obama Justice Department lost track of thousands of guns it had allowed to pass into the hands of suspected smugglers, in the hope of tracing them to Mexican drug cartels. One of the guns was used in the fatal 2010 shooting of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry. Congress held then-Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt when he refused to turn over documents about the operation.
  • IRS abuses. Mr. Obama’s Internal Revenue Service did something Richard Nixon only dreamed of doing: It successfully targeted political opponents. The Justice Department then refused to enforce Congress’s contempt citation against the IRS’s Lois Lerner, who refused to answer questions about her agency’s misconduct.
  • Benghazi. Ambassador Chris Stevens and three others were killed in the attack on a U.S. diplomatic compound in Libya. With less than two months to go before the 2012 election, the State Department falsely claimed the attack was not a terrorist attack but a reaction to an anti-Muslim film. Emails from the secretary later showed that she knew the attack was terrorism. Justice Department prosecutors even convinced a magistrate judge to jail the filmmaker.
  • Hacking. Mr. Obama presided over the biggest data breach in the federal government’s history, at the Office of Personnel Management. The hack exposed the personnel files of millions of federal employees and may end up being used for everything from identity theft to blackmail and espionage. OPM Director Katherine Archuleta, the president’s former political director, had been warned repeatedly about security deficiencies but took no steps to fix them.
  • Veterans Affairs. At least 40 U.S. veterans died waiting for appointments at a Phoenix VA facility, many of whom had been on a secret waiting list—part of an effort to conceal that between 1,400 and 1,600 veterans were forced to wait months for appointments. A 2014 internal VA audit found “57,436 newly enrolled veterans facing a minimum 90-day wait for medical care; 63,869 veterans who enrolled over the past decade requesting an appointment that never happened.” Even Mr. Obama admitted, in a November 2016 press conference, that “it was scandalous what happened”—though minutes earlier he boasted that “we will—knock on wood—leave this administration without significant scandal.”
https://tinyurl.com/y9phj8av
Click to expand...

And even more recently, now that it's been uncovered:

yd4gelkv


Some are saying that the left believes in rainbow unicorns, and I've had my doubts, but its post like yours give me the impression that its true.

Sorry, but the claim that Obama's administration was scandal free is a ship that's already sailed off into the sunset. It was never true.

That might be setting a low bar....but that says more about previous presidents (i.e. Clinton, Reagan, Bush, Nixon, LBJ, etc.) than about Obama. We can argue about Obama's policies, platforms, decisions and actions, etc...... but THAT issue is just not arguable.
Click to expand...

But it is arguable, as the partial list above clearly demonstrates, and yes, we can also argue about the poor public policies pushed by Obama, as well as the business / economy killing regulation tidal wave, his foreign policy disaster Libyan intervention, 'leading form behind'.

The W administration was clearly the most corrupt in modern history. But the Trump regime has already surpassed W and is in a category all it's own.....after only 12 months. We could spend hours just recounting all of the Trump lies........Trump scandals.......and Trump incompetence.....just since January 20, 2017.
Click to expand...
 
CriticalThought said:
Hint? I feel like the right wing media has become some sort of teenage girl gossip thing, "Like...I can't say anything, but like...wait to hear like how the State Department like...may have been involved...like in the FISA warrant...like you are gonna think it is so cray cray."
Click to expand...

Weave and dodge from security threat to nothing burger to we have our own memo. It would be funny to watch the panic if it weren't for the reality of the situation. There is only two ways this could have happened. Either the FBI told the judge that the dossier was politically driven and was obtained through horrible sources, and it's just that easy for a party in power to spy on its political opponents in this country, or the FBI lied about it. Either way, we are looking at a police state and you are defending it.
 
The Russians are an interesting study. They look like Americans and in many ways act like Americans. Most don't have slanted eyes or dark skin. In fact an American can view the majority of Russian citizens as a physical reflection of themselves. It's their historical struggles that distinguish them from the people on the street in the USA. Like Americans the average Russian spends a lifetime under the influence of an intellectual elite that controls their economic and ideological reality.

While Americans enjoyed the trappings of capitalism and all the benefits of a modern world Russians lived under a system of forced supervision that produced tractor tires and military equipment when the people really wanted washing machines and television sets. Economic disparity in the Soviet Union eventually led to its downfall.

But the intellectual elite here was secretly envious of the oppressive authority and absolute domination exercised by the Soviet nomenklatura so it devised a method to capture and fashion its own version. It was a founding principle of the War on Poverty and its sister philosophical manifestation, the Great Society. Like the Soviets, the American intellectual elite presented its autocracy as a remedy for class inequality.

The US is in the final stages of the economic storm front that devastated the communist empire in Russia and for similar reasons. A tiny cabal of bureaucratic overseers cannot maintain or sustain their privileged perches without the eventual use of force. When the people get wise to what they have been handed they react in a way that threatens the status quo.

It happened peacefully in the US when Donald Trump was elected but the status quo realizes this is a zero sum game and they are willing to tear into the fabric of democracy to preserve what they have stolen from the people. This presents itself in some bizarre ways.

Does anyone seriously believe that Bill and Hillary Clinton were just two legitimate, innocent uranium salespeople trying to make a living? Or were they two elites making deals with sworn enemy elites to get richer? The US government has betrayed the people and the people discovered it. Now it is in the process of self-survival just like the old Soviet guard was in the 1990's.

If they succeed in taking down a president, force will be the next move because as in the Soviet Union the people have had enough.
 
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/reviews/capsule-review/1984-12-01/nomenklatura-soviet-ruling-class


In foreign countries if a citizen needs an official document they can often get it by bribing a public official. This is the kind of corruption that exists and has always existed in the world, particularly the third world. Most Americans are harboring a dangerous delusion. They think that could never happen here because America is not a third world country.

They may want to think again because Hillary Clinton and her campaign were able to buy a FISA Warrant by spreading money around to the right people. The Obama administration was probably the most corrupt government authority in the history of the human race not just America. Obama’s top secret life history and his emergence from out of nowhere as a shining beacon of pristine political correctness should have been a red flag to any reasonable citizen.

Since the Great Society the political establishment of the US has been slowly and deliberately harvesting a population that is for all practical purposes ripe for a totalitarian state. You don’t need to be a weatherman to know which way the wind was blowing and that wind blew in one ear out and right out the other of millions of American voters when Barack Obama mounted a unicorn and rode into the White House like a cartoon character festooned with a counterfeit Noble Prize.

The swooning giddiness of the mesmerized multitudes that put Obama in office was seen by Obama as a wild opportunity to corrupt government agencies and convert them into an American version of the Soviet Nomenklatura. Obama, with a race card in one hand and his Cracker-Jack-box Noble Prize in the other, began stacking these agencies with stooges so corrupt they’d make Putin jealous.
Hillary Clinton headed the list with Loretta Lynch, Susan Rice and Eric Holder not far behind.

The malfeasance of the Obama administration was so widespread and so complete that the FBI and the Department of Justice stood by like servile bootlickers covering for Clinton while she destroyed evidence of incompetence and a casual disregard for national security that would have put average citizens behind bars for years.

When Hillary Clinton needed a FISA Warrant to smear and hamstring political opposition she just opened the wallet of the Democratic National Committee and bought one like it was a phony passport from a banana republic.

Trump is the only thing standing between us and the New American Nomenklatura.
 
R0bb0b said:
Weave and dodge from security threat to nothing burger to we have our own memo. It would be funny to watch the panic if it weren't for the reality of the situation. There is only two ways this could have happened. Either the FBI told the judge that the dossier was politically driven and was obtained through horrible sources, and it's just that easy for a party in power to spy on its political opponents in this country, or the FBI lied about it. Either way, we are looking at a police state and you are defending it.
Click to expand...

Two separate issues should be discussed separately.
 
eohrnberger said:
Bought that propaganda, did you?

In reality, Mr. Obama has presided over some of the worst scandals of any president in recent decades. Here’s a partial list:

State Department email.
Operation Fast and Furious.
IRS abuses.
Benghazi.
Hacking.
Veterans Affairs.

https://tinyurl.com/y9phj8av
Click to expand...

:lamo....as I said, not a single legitimate scandal, just an endless string of contrived FAKE scandals and right wing conspiracy theories-all of which have been COMPLETELY discredited. The fact that people like you are still this deluded, only speaks to the power of the right wing/fake news media that you guys digest. This is why people like you aren't taken seriously. You're just angry, irrational, emotional ideologues.

And even more recently, now that it's been uncovered:

yd4gelkv
Click to expand...

:lamo The brainwashing continues, lol.

Some are saying that the left believes in rainbow unicorns, and I've had my doubts, but its post like yours give me the impression that its true. Sorry, but the claim that Obama's administration was scandal free is a ship that's already sailed off into the sunset. It was never true.
Click to expand...

Of course it's true. Again, the FACT is that Obama did not have a single major scandal during his entire 8 years in office. That is not arguable. And as you just proved, any attempts to dispute that FACT will only make you look foolish. Lucky for us all, yours is a mentality that will not write history. No rational person believes that, and you know you can't defend it. Historians (and just rational people in general) aren't swayed by FoxNews, Hannity and Breitbart. Meanwhile, the Trump administration has already cemented it's place as the most corrupt and incompetent since the mid-19th Century (circa, Buchanan and Taylor).

But it is arguable, as the partial list above clearly demonstrates, and yes, we can also argue about the poor public policies pushed by Obama, as well as the business / economy killing regulation tidal wave, his foreign policy disaster Libyan intervention, 'leading form behind'.
Click to expand...

You can argue about public policies under Obama if you wish. That's fine. You'll probably be wrong about that too......but still, there is at least some room for opinion there. What you CANNOT argue, with ANY credibility, is that Obama was not the LEAST scandalize president in the last half-century-plus (at least). You know it, as well as I. I also know that it KILLS people like you to have to admit it, because of your "personal" issues with any Democratic president (in general) and with Barack Obama (in particular).
 
Ray9 said:
The Russians are an interesting study. They look like Americans and in many ways act like Americans. Most don't have slanted eyes or dark skin. In fact an American can view the majority of Russian citizens as a physical reflection of themselves. It's their historical struggles that distinguish them from the people on the street in the USA. Like Americans the average Russian spends a lifetime under the influence of an intellectual elite that controls their economic and ideological reality.

While Americans enjoyed the trappings of capitalism and all the benefits of a modern world Russians lived under a system of forced supervision that produced tractor tires and military equipment when the people really wanted washing machines and television sets. Economic disparity in the Soviet Union eventually led to its downfall.

But the intellectual elite here was secretly envious of the oppressive authority and absolute domination exercised by the Soviet nomenklatura so it devised a method to capture and fashion its own version. It was a founding principle of the War on Poverty and its sister philosophical manifestation, the Great Society. Like the Soviets, the American intellectual elite presented its autocracy as a remedy for class inequality.

The US is in the final stages of the economic storm front that devastated the communist empire in Russia and for similar reasons. A tiny cabal of bureaucratic overseers cannot maintain or sustain their privileged perches without the eventual use of force. When the people get wise to what they have been handed they react in a way that threatens the status quo.

It happened peacefully in the US when Donald Trump was elected but the status quo realizes this is a zero sum game and they are willing to tear into the fabric of democracy to preserve what they have stolen from the people. This presents itself in some bizarre ways.

Does anyone seriously believe that Bill and Hillary Clinton were just two legitimate, innocent uranium salespeople trying to make a living? Or were they two elites making deals with sworn enemy elites to get richer? The US government has betrayed the people and the people discovered it. Now it is in the process of self-survival just like the old Soviet guard was in the 1990's.

If they succeed in taking down a president, force will be the next move because as in the Soviet Union the people have had enough.
Click to expand...

I agree with your assessment, but disagree with who I think is really doing the fleecing of the American public.

republican.webp
 
ultmd said:
:lamo....as I said, not a single legitimate scandal, just an endless string of contrived FAKE scandals and right wing conspiracy theories-all of which have been COMPLETELY discredited. The fact that people like you are still this deluded, only speaks to the power of the right wing/fake news media that you guys digest. This is why people like you aren't taken seriously. You're just angry, irrational, emotional ideologues.



:lamo The brainwashing continues, lol.



Of course it's true. Again, the FACT is that Obama did not have a single major scandal during his entire 8 years in office. That is not arguable. And as you just proved, any attempts to dispute that FACT will only make you look foolish. Lucky for us all, yours is a mentality that will not write history. No rational person believes that, and you know you can't defend it. Historians (and just rational people in general) aren't swayed by FoxNews, Hannity and Breitbart. Meanwhile, the Trump administration has already cemented it's place as the most corrupt and incompetent since the mid-19th Century (circa, Buchanan and Taylor).



You can argue about public policies under Obama if you wish. That's fine. You'll probably be wrong about that too......but still, there is at least some room for opinion there. What you CANNOT argue, with ANY credibility, is that Obama was not the LEAST scandalize president in the last half-century-plus (at least). You know it, as well as I. I also know that it KILLS people like you to have to admit it, because of your "personal" issues with any Democratic president (in general) and with Barack Obama (in particular).
Click to expand...

I see you with your fingers in your ears running around in circles shouting 'La ! La ! La ! La !"

You can continue to believe in rainbow unicorns, i.e. lack of Obama's scandals, denying that which is being uncovered all you want, if that's what your political imperative dictates that's you must believe and are told to believe.
 
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