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Are conservatives just irrational people?

Hillary isn't an evil criminal that should be locked up. And I don't wish to fit in with the current Republican party, thanks. I was a Republican for a time, but when I saw the Tea Party wave, I got out of dodge.

Good for you. I don't consider Trump and company real conservatives. They've hijacked the Republican party and may very well destroy it before they're done. The role of conservatives is to preserve the good in the status quo and to moderate and manage change, preserve stability and prevent chaos. They are a honorable and vital part of the body politic.
 
I listed 6 completely irrational positions. Do you deny that any of them are irrational positions?

1. I'm simply against illegal immigration, and FOR well regulated, merit base immigration... and I'm not disturbed with people showing some of the many drawback of letting people break laws. The argument seems to be that "Illegal immigrants" are responsible for a higher violent crime rate, and if you reduce the population of illegal immigrants, it will in turn reduce violent crime. I've heard/seen different sources reporting different things about whether illegal immigrants do in fact commit more violent crime... it is actually a rather difficult number to come up with because there aren't any official number of illegal immigrants living in an area.... they can be underestimates or overestimates... and there are particular crime groups responsible for the vast majority of these crimes.
Regardless of this point.... my opinion on illegal Immigration is entirely beside it. You also seem to be the kind of person that loves to equate immigration and illegal immigration...

2.Though there are certainly a fair amount of Global Warming skeptics... There is also a large amount of people... skeptical of the severity of the projection and predictions in the climate science community... they have been wrong many times. And ANY time a subject like this is politicized it WILL be corrupted. Global Warming factors into absolutely nothing to my position of over caring for our environment; I think we certainly ought to. Personally I do think Humans are contributing to the earth warming. The evidence seems to indicate as such, but that's about it. I have not found convincing pieces to the degree or on what can reliably be done about it... I simply think there are MANY other environmental issues that are significantly more important than attempting to deal with climate change... There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING proposed by even the most bold hippie politicians that would actually help whatsoever in the long run according to the "predictions".... according to scientist predictions... we would have to stop ALL fossil fuels around the ENTIRE WORLD TOMORROW... in order for the climate to correct itself in 2k years. That is simply NOT going to happen regardless, Humans WILL burn every last bit of oil on this planet until a significantly cheaper and easier option is available.... so it is in fact, up to the markets to decide and put your faith into.... in the mean time, we just need to adapt like we always have.

3. There are flaws in all systems of Healthcare. I don't find it objective to say that UK system is better then the U.S.'s or that their system would work better here rather than there. You don't know this information, you can try to have a rather informed opinion based on what you think would work.... but there are equally intelligent and professional people in this world that would think the exact opposite. There are some inherent advantages countries like the UK have over the US to be able to organize such a thing. Universal healthcare is not the end all be all of solutions and it's not evident that it is sustainable for the best healthcare possible.
You can try to put this in your irrationality spectrum out of arrogance... but you are simply wrong.

4. Rationality lol.... I don't think it is a overwhelming majority conservative position for the state to force anyone to not protest at a football game, might be Trump's but it certainly isn't mine. But people are certainly allowed to express their opinions and try to pressure the NFL to ban such behavior from their employees(which they certainly have the right to do, and the employees can simply choose another job if they don't like what their job requires.... which is actually in their contract).

5. This is just religious people finding it morally wrong, like it is literally a sin to them... so I'm not surprised some of them have this position. I of course do not. I would actually prefer the government completely stay out of marriage completely... and just have them recognize civil union contracts as a replacement.

6. You seem naive to constant danger we are in in this world. It is serious. I know you have probably been raised in a peace bubble your entire life... and you have no idea what it took to make this miracle of peace we've had the last 70-ish years... the world major economic powers have not gone to war in over 60+ years, and it's a miracle in human history... The most significant factor to this is the Dominance of the United states of America's military.
I don't pretend to know what is needed.... I don't know the risks... all I know is the work of various military and security experts which overwhelming in my anecdotal experience say we are under-prepared.
 
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Good for you. I don't consider Trump and company real conservatives. They've hijacked the Republican party and may very well destroy it before they're done. The role of conservatives is to preserve the good in the status quo and to moderate and manage change, preserve stability and prevent chaos. They are a honorable and vital part of the body politic.

I agree 100% with this. As a body politic, we need both conservatism and progressivism to move forward as a society in fair, meaningful ways. If we move too far to one end of the spectrum, or in the worst case, move to a one-party state, our society will inevitably fail.
 
1. I never claimed to support illegal immigration. I just claimed that you can't draw any conclusions based on the actions of a tiny minority who behave criminally. Liberals don't support illegal immigration. We just don't agree that they're a bunch of rapist and murderers. We don't think they're the problem that Trump and FOX news claim they are. We don't think a physical 3rd century expensive wall makes any sense. We think sanctuary cities make sense from a law enforcement perspective.

2. There is no random lottery. Why don't you know that? Applicants have to meet educational requirements and pass background checks.


Yes, they do.
If they did not support illegal immigration, they would not create sanctuary cities ... to "protect" illegal aliens.
 
That's not correct. Name the 5 funniest conservative comedians.

We'll wait.

There are funny liberal comedians, no doubt. In my experience though, very generaly speaking, conservatives have a better sense of humor about themselves than liberals.
 
In answer to the OP, no, conservatives are not irrational...or, at least, no more irrational than the left, if we're indulging in generalizations.

My two cents, from the cheap seats: America has been polarized beyond the borders of rationality, to the point that neither side will tolerate good ideas from the other, or even work together in any meaningful way to seek consensus. Both sides feel fully justified in their position, because they can point to the other and lay the blame. This behavior is wildly irrational, but I would suggest that at this point it has gone so deep that determining who is "more guilty" is impossible.

There are ideological battles being fought, and until those are resolved, and America rediscovers who it wants to be, this won't change, so threads like this are pointless, and in fact make things worse.

At the end of the day, regardless of which side you identify with, you all want to be safe, secure, able to look after yourselves and your families, have a few nice things, and live your lives. Somehow you decided that unless everyone else does the same as you, that cannot be accomplished. That's another irrationality. But until you get that in your heads, and adopt a much broader commitment to "live and let live", you're going to be stuck with heads up asses, battling ceaselessly on DP, feeling fully justified in pointing the fingers at everyone except yourselves.

Sounds exhausting.......
 
I pointed out the clear irrationality in 6 positions popular among conservatives. Your responses are not exactly rational. Do you have more emoticons?

Let me ask you. We're deep in debt. Our military is bigger than the next 10 combined. Do we need to increase military spending? Does that make any sense?

You expressed your opinion of what a few Conservative positions are and then proceeded to call anyone who disagreed with your opinion irrational. That's pretty damned far from a rational argument.
 
Don't cede the high ground by resorting to their bigotry.



Leno, Dennis Miller, Adam Carolla, Steven Crowder and Nick Dipaolo

Leno is, or was once, good. Are you sure you want to stick with the others? They're the best???

Carolla was a good sidekick. Watching him come out of Snoop's "green room" coughing up smoke and laughing his ass of was a great moment. Miller is weak and I've never heard of the other 2.
 
Yes, they do.
If they did not support illegal immigration, they would not create sanctuary cities ... to "protect" illegal aliens.

Illegals are here. It's not about "protecting them." It's about rational policy. If illegals are afraid to call the police then you'll just create an underworld where you can rape or do whatever you want to an illegal because you know they won't go to the police.

If you don't educate illegals then you'll just create a bunch of uneducated adult illegal aliens who have to turn to crime.

If Republicans care so much about the problem, then just throw all the business owners who hire them in jail. Problem solved. But they won't do that because they understand our economy needs their labor. So, why not have rational policies?
 
You expressed your opinion of what a few Conservative positions are and then proceeded to call anyone who disagreed with your opinion irrational. That's pretty damned far from a rational argument.

I didn't just give an opinion. I pointed out the fundamental irrationality. If a few Muslims commit crimes and you act against all Muslims that's irrational. That's not an opinion. It's literally irrational.

Ignoring what scientists say who are experts in the field is literally irrational.
 
Leno is, or was once, good. Are you sure you want to stick with the others? They're the best???

Carolla was a good sidekick. Watching him come out of Snoop's "green room" coughing up smoke and laughing his ass of was a great moment. Miller is weak and I've never heard of the other 2.

Miller is a classic, Nick Dipaolo is a comedian's comedian. If you haven't heard of him, I wouldn't expect you to like him.

Carolla is better on his own, his podcast is great. As for Steven Crowder, hell yes I will stick with him. Lowder with Crowder is hilarious, you should catch some of his segments on the Joe Rogan experience.

I didn't just give an opinion. I pointed out the fundamental irrationality. If a few Muslims commit crimes and you act against all Muslims that's irrational. That's not an opinion. It's literally irrational.


Ignoring what scientists say who are experts in the field is literally irrational.


Ignoring what people say their positions actually are, refusing to change your mind when faced with new evidence and downright ignorance is what is irrational. You see rather preoccupied with rationality for someone so far away from it.
 
Don't cede the high ground by resorting to their bigotry.



Leno, Dennis Miller, Adam Carolla, Steven Crowder and Nick Dipaolo
Leno isn't a conservative!

I can totally relate to the guy, and I doubt anyone will confuse me with being a conservative - even if I do believe there are some good conservative principles worth practicing. Leno may be somewhere in the middle, Right of the far-Left comedians, but it's quite the stretch to label him conservative. He lionizes Micheal Moore, for Chrissakes.

I will agree with Miller though, and he came directly to my mind as well.

Unfortunately, I have no familiarity with the last three, so I can't comment directly on them.
 
Trump's presidency has made me consider that all these years I've been arguing with fundamentally irrational people. Trump is obviously utterly and totally incompetent. Any rational person can see that. So, it's evident that we're dealing with irrational people.

Rational people don't say stuff like this: "Trump is obviously utterly and totally incompetent."
 
I didn't just give an opinion. I pointed out the fundamental irrationality. If a few Muslims commit crimes and you act against all Muslims that's irrational. That's not an opinion. It's literally irrational.

Ignoring what scientists say who are experts in the field is literally irrational.

No, you didn't. You expressed your opinion and then decided that anyone who disagreed with that opinion was irrational.
 
Leno isn't a conservative!

How wasn't he?

LENO: Well, I think if you ask me about gay rights or anything like this, I think it's fairly obvious what my politics are. I like equality for everybody. I mean, that's, I think whatever that makes you.

"But I'm one of those people, I'm conservative fiscally and I'm probably liberal socially. Which I think the way most Americans are. You know, it's like with the gay issue most people go, he's like Eddie. You know, people, most people are like that. They're against it until they know someone who's that way. Oh, well, he's okay. And then it's all fine." - Leno, in an interview w/ Lawrence O'Donnel

He's a pro-gay marriage conservative basically. Center right at the very least.
 
Trump's presidency has made me consider that all these years I've been arguing with fundamentally irrational people. Trump is obviously utterly and totally incompetent. Any rational person can see that. So, it's evident that we're dealing with irrational people.

But beyond Trump almost everything about conservatism is fundamentally irrational:

1. Anti-immigration irrationality. If one illegal alien or Muslim commits a crime they reason that if you banned all illegal aliens or Muslim that crime would not have occurred. That's irrational. All groups commit crimes. Plenty of American citizens go on shooting sprees. You're far more likely to be shot by a crazy non-Muslim American citizen than any Muslim. Moreover, you're more likely to be crushed by furniture or struck by lightning than die due to a Muslim terrorist. Over a million people come through the diversity lottery program, a couple commit terrible crimes and they reason, irrationally, that the lottery program is the problem.

2. Climate change deniers. Why would you ignore what scientists are telling you? Even if half the scientists said there was nothing to worry about and half were warning us, wouldn't it make sense to err on the side of caution? What do we have to lose if we clean up pollution then later find out there was no man-made climate change? But consider what we have to lose if they were right and we didn't do enough. The irrationality is absolutely staggering.

3. Universal health care. Canada and all of Europe has moved to universal health care. None of them want to go back to the system we have. Even conservatives in Britain support universal health care. We pay more than anyone and costs are exploding and will eventually bankrupt us but conservatives are in complete denial of reality. If universal health care was so bad why aren't the citizens of Canada and Europe fighting to get rid of it? You can have basic universal health care and still have private supplemental insurance.

Finally, unless you're willing to let a homeless man die because he can't afford treatment, health care is always universal anyway. We just have a terrible universal system.

4. Nationalism. Flag worship and demanding Americans stand for the anthem is just irrational. How can you have a free country where people are forced to stand for the anthem? That makes absolutely no sense. It's the extremely authoritarian countries like North Korea where people are forced to show patriotism.

5. Gay marriage. If you don't like gay marriage then don't get gay married. Why do you care what others do? Whatever happened to freedom? I'm Christian but I refuse to impose my beliefs on my fellow citizens because I don't want them to do the same to me. Three conservative Supreme Court judges voted in favor of Texas' anti-sodomy law in a case where a gay man was arrested for having sex in his own home. This includes Scalia and Thomas. This is totally irrational.

6. Defense. We're deeply in debt. Our military is bigger than the next 10 militaries combined. Surely we can save some money by decreasing military spending, right? Not according to conservatives. Our military apparently isn't big enough! Are we planning to invade the world?



Now we have Trump, the leader of the irrationals building a wall to stop drug trafficking in an age where drug traffickers use drones.

We're just dealing with seriously irrational people. They're completely immune to facts and logic.




:coffeepap
 
JFK was staunchly anti-Russian and anti-communist. He would be sickened by how weak Trump is against Russia and a former KGB agent. And if you want to talk about vile then consider Donald "P**y Grabber" Trump. Trump is the only president I can remember who spews obscenities publically--calling NFL player an SOB and exhorting a crowd to act violently against protesters and making fun of a disabled man.

Yup, you beat me to it. That poster's post was completely off track (forget that there is no such thing as "Democrat Party"). All of JFK's family members are Democrats. JFK would be a Democrat as well, and what you said about Trump's lovey dovey relationship with Russia would be a big part of that.

JFK wouldn't be today's Trump Republican. He wouldn't be pissing and crying about Mexicans stealing his blueberry picking job. He wouldn't be calling NFL players names. He wouldn't be ordering up grand parades. He wouldn't be against gay people getting married. He wouldn't be supporting creeps like Roy Moore. I could go on....
 
How wasn't he?

LENO: Well, I think if you ask me about gay rights or anything like this, I think it's fairly obvious what my politics are. I like equality for everybody. I mean, that's, I think whatever that makes you.

"But I'm one of those people, I'm conservative fiscally and I'm probably liberal socially. Which I think the way most Americans are. You know, it's like with the gay issue most people go, he's like Eddie. You know, people, most people are like that. They're against it until they know someone who's that way. Oh, well, he's okay. And then it's all fine." - Leno, in an interview w/ Lawrence O'Donnel

He's a pro-gay marriage conservative basically. Center right at the very least.
Um, you are disputing that you presented?

(BTW, that bolded statement may be why I can relate to the guy)
 
I didn't just give an opinion. I pointed out the fundamental irrationality. If a few Muslims commit crimes and you act against all Muslims that's irrational. That's not an opinion. It's literally irrational.

Ignoring what scientists say who are experts in the field is literally irrational.

Irrational, is listening to scientists who have been busted faking their research data.
 
There are funny liberal comedians, no doubt. In my experience though, very generaly speaking, conservatives have a better sense of humor about themselves than liberals.
Jon Stewart used to skewer Obama on a regular basis. I'm upping the anti. Name 5 funny conservative comedians, one of whom makes jokes about conservatives. We'll wait.
 
Um, you are disputing that you presented?

(BTW, that bolded statement may be why I can relate to the guy)

Not at all, the bolded part is my very point. He was solidly fiscally conservative, but "probably" socially liberal. Of the two, his conservatism is more solid.

I tend to take people at their word, rather than attempting to label people based on my own cookie cutter interpretation of ideologies or worse, presuming intent.
 
Jon Stewart used to skewer Obama on a regular basis. I'm upping the anti. Name 5 funny conservative comedians, one of whom makes jokes about conservatives. We'll wait.

I can’t. Conservatives, by and large, have real jobs. :2razz:
 
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